Jor-El as a villian?

NotFadeAway · 06-03-2009, 07:43 PM

Okay, Okay, don't start flaming me. I mentioned this in the Superman writers workshop thread, but I'm bored so I thought I'd make a thread to pass time.

I'm not saying this is a route that should be taken, because I'm not sure how I would even feel if it really did happen. But I'm curious, how would you feel if a new writer/director came on the project and turned in a kick ass modern day Superman script that nailed the Birthright/TASFor All Seasons Superman, Lois, the Kents, etc. A script with great attention to character detail, emotion, action, great dialouge, faithful to the modern comics, the whole nine yards except......Jor-El was the villian?

It wouldn't be that hard to pull off. Just have Lara and her father, Sul-Van, send Kal-El to Earth to survive the destruction of Krypton and get away from the evil Jor-El.

I see this going one of two ways. One, it's horribly cliche and very Luke/Vader-esque. Two, it's done in a manner that reeks of awesomeness with powerful emotion and action as Superman attempts to save his adoptive planet from his evil biological father. In my opinion, seeing that Smallville exists now in it's own universe, I wish they would have went this route back when the seeds were planted in season two. Should have taken the gamble, couldn't be any worse than what we have recieved.

Blackman · 06-03-2009, 07:46 PM

Excel · 06-03-2009, 07:48 PM

Yeah no.

NotFadeAway · 06-03-2009, 07:53 PM

Boredom got the best of me!

Webhead2006 · 06-03-2009, 07:54 PM

It would be an interesting twist to see done, sorta like in first few seasons of jorel in smallville they made it seem he was a bad guy. But i rather keep the classic jorel.

Dark Knight · 06-04-2009, 12:02 AM

Blasphemy.....!!!!! Arrrghhhhhh.....LOL

Frodo · 06-04-2009, 12:50 AM

I don't think Jor El should be a villian but, I do like the tension between Jor El and Kal El shown in the first 4 seasons of SV and in Donner's version of Superman 2. I think an interesting twist would be that Jor El's sole intention is to send Kal El to earth to strictly to survive and maintain the legacy of Krypton and it's culture.

Kal's choice to be a savior of humanity by becoming Superman would be his own and not Jor El's destiny for him as in SV and the Donner films. Clark takes Jor El's teachings but uses them to benefit humanity . In a sense, Clark believes the best way of living up to Krypton's legacy is to save humanity.

This causes a major rift between the two as it expresses Clark human feelings with Jor El 's cold Kryptonian logic . They are both idealistic men but have vastly different idea's about Clark's future and purpose which is a classic father/son dynamic in stories.

I think the Hercules/Zeus , Syndey Bristow and her Dad(Alias), Ra's Al Ghul/Bruce Wayne dynamic (minus the villiany) style relationship is how I would portray it as opposed to Jor El wanting Kal El to be a hero for humans.

GreenKToo · 06-04-2009, 07:22 AM

Well if we're gonna go off the wall here i'll raise the anti, make Lara the villain.

Motown Marvel · 06-04-2009, 10:40 AM

what if we made clark kent the villain, and he has to turn into superman to stop himself?! EPICK!

Frodo · 06-04-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motown Marvel

what if we made clark kent the villain, and he has to turn into superman to stop himself?! EPICK!

Well, they already did that with Superman 3.

Lol.

Motown Marvel · 06-04-2009, 10:50 AM

but this time we have CGI!!!!!

okay okay, how about this dramatic twist: superman is the bad, right? like really evil mega bad guy, like he punches pregnant jewish women or something. and the only way to stop him is by having him be clark kent, because as clark he wont have his powers and wont be able to do super powered evil things. and only lois can trick him into being clark by tempting him with her woman stuff. but the real drama is, if he's clark, then theres no superman, and if theres no superman who's gonna stop luthor from stealing the cakes of metropolis?

The Guard · 06-04-2009, 05:16 PM

SMALLVILLE already did the only thing that would make this work. Having Zod pose as Jor-El. And even that ended up feeling forced and cheesy. I just don't see the point of a Jor-El who's a villain. There are better counterparts who actually ARE villains to use before this would ever become necessary.

protocida · 06-04-2009, 05:45 PM

J.J. Abrams did that.

In his Script, Jor-El was the dictator of Kandor, and had a son called Ty-Zor with another woman. Kandor survived Krypton's explosion thanks to Jor-El's technology, but his wife, Lara, and her father, Saul-Varn, send his newborn son, Kal-El, to Earth, where he was found by the Kents.

In the ending, Superman would depart to Krypton to fight Jor-El, who he believes it's the man who, a prophecy says, will destroy the Universe. He has no idea the real menace prophetized is Lex Luthor.

Webhead2006 · 06-04-2009, 07:05 PM

That was the first draft one right?

BenReilly · 06-04-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

That was the first draft one right?

No. In the first (and second) draft, Jor-El's brother Kata-Zor was the villain. Jor-El was a good man and fought against his brother in a civil war on Krypton.

protocida · 06-04-2009, 08:40 PM

Wrong.

In the 1° draft, Kata-Zor and Ty-Zor were the villains, and Jor-El was a good man.

In the 2° draft, Jor-El and Ty-Zor (Who was made his son) we're the villains.

BenReilly · 06-04-2009, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protocida

Wrong.

In the 1° draft, Kata-Zor and Ty-Zor were the villains, and Jor-El was a good man.

In the 2° draft, Jor-El and Ty-Zor (Who was made his son) we're the villains.

Just going by Latino Review's script review of Abrams' second draft:

http://www.latinoreview.com/script-r...man-returns-11

I SEE SPIDEY · 06-04-2009, 08:51 PM

Fade, I'm not going to flame you because I like ya but I have to say that I "hate" the idea of Jor-El being evil.

protocida · 06-04-2009, 08:56 PM

Forget it...

The Guard · 06-04-2009, 09:11 PM

Based on what, exactly?

Excel · 06-04-2009, 09:15 PM

I am with Guard. How do you know this?

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Webhead2006 · 06-04-2009, 09:42 PM

Ok thanks its been yrs since i read the first draft script of jj so i dont remember all the details of that one. As for the other versions i didnt know of them untill recently.

BATZARRO WWD · 06-04-2009, 10:55 PM

OOOOO...kay?

Well, I guess if the writers can find a way for Jor El to not be dead on his homeplanet and give him a good motivation for saving his son(if it's out of love, then it's a harder sell to make him evil), it might be possible. Maybe even as a big out of nowhere reveal.

That said, it would take granite bawls to do it.

Excel · 06-05-2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

Ok thanks its been yrs since i read the first draft script of jj so i dont remember all the details of that one. As for the other versions i didnt know of them untill recently.

Put it this way:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Johnny Drama · 06-05-2009, 02:23 AM

Jor-El as villian? Not bad, but I would rather see Dark Jimmy Olsen ans Dark Perry White first. They are just so...dark!

06-03-2009, 07:43 PM	#1
NotFadeAway Side-Kick Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Mirror Universe Posts: 5,375	Jor-El as a villian? Okay, Okay, don't start flaming me. I mentioned this in the Superman writers workshop thread, but I'm bored so I thought I'd make a thread to pass time. I'm not saying this is a route that should be taken, because I'm not sure how I would even feel if it really did happen. But I'm curious, how would you feel if a new writer/director came on the project and turned in a kick ass modern day Superman script that nailed the Birthright/TASFor All Seasons Superman, Lois, the Kents, etc. A script with great attention to character detail, emotion, action, great dialouge, faithful to the modern comics, the whole nine yards except......Jor-El was the villian? It wouldn't be that hard to pull off. Just have Lara and her father, Sul-Van, send Kal-El to Earth to survive the destruction of Krypton and get away from the evil Jor-El. I see this going one of two ways. One, it's horribly cliche and very Luke/Vader-esque. Two, it's done in a manner that reeks of awesomeness with powerful emotion and action as Superman attempts to save his adoptive planet from his evil biological father. In my opinion, seeing that Smallville exists now in it's own universe, I wish they would have went this route back when the seeds were planted in season two. Should have taken the gamble, couldn't be any worse than what we have recieved. __________________ LOST- 2004-2010: "The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. " Best comic film of all time. The Dark Knight Rises!

06-03-2009, 07:48 PM	#3
Excel O-bama-ama-ama-ay-ay Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Places Posts: 19,470	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Yeah no. __________________ If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place, Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change R.I.P. Heath

06-03-2009, 07:53 PM	#4
NotFadeAway Side-Kick Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Mirror Universe Posts: 5,375	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Boredom got the best of me! __________________ LOST- 2004-2010: "The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. " Best comic film of all time. The Dark Knight Rises!

06-03-2009, 07:54 PM	#5
Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 39,735	Re: Jor-El as a villian? It would be an interesting twist to see done, sorta like in first few seasons of jorel in smallville they made it seem he was a bad guy. But i rather keep the classic jorel. __________________ Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon. Marvel and the House of Mouse? www.ItsJustMovies.com

06-04-2009, 12:02 AM	#6
Dark Knight Banned User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: LOST Island Posts: 15,490	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Blasphemy.....!!!!! Arrrghhhhhh.....LOL

06-04-2009, 12:50 AM	#7
Frodo Side-Kick Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,654	Re: Jor-El as a villian? I don't think Jor El should be a villian but, I do like the tension between Jor El and Kal El shown in the first 4 seasons of SV and in Donner's version of Superman 2. I think an interesting twist would be that Jor El's sole intention is to send Kal El to earth to strictly to survive and maintain the legacy of Krypton and it's culture. Kal's choice to be a savior of humanity by becoming Superman would be his own and not Jor El's destiny for him as in SV and the Donner films. Clark takes Jor El's teachings but uses them to benefit humanity . In a sense, Clark believes the best way of living up to Krypton's legacy is to save humanity. This causes a major rift between the two as it expresses Clark human feelings with Jor El 's cold Kryptonian logic . They are both idealistic men but have vastly different idea's about Clark's future and purpose which is a classic father/son dynamic in stories. I think the Hercules/Zeus , Syndey Bristow and her Dad(Alias), Ra's Al Ghul/Bruce Wayne dynamic (minus the villiany) style relationship is how I would portray it as opposed to Jor El wanting Kal El to be a hero for humans.

06-04-2009, 07:22 AM	#8
GreenKToo Side-Kick Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In the fire. Posts: 10,168	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Well if we're gonna go off the wall here i'll raise the anti, make Lara the villain. __________________ ''Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.'' ~ John Wayne http://thinkmcflythink.squarespace.com/

06-04-2009, 10:40 AM	#9
Motown Marvel Crimson and Clover Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Rock City Posts: 20,204	Re: Jor-El as a villian? what if we made clark kent the villain, and he has to turn into superman to stop himself?! EPICK! __________________ Dear Prudence, won't you come out and play?

06-04-2009, 10:50 AM	#11
Motown Marvel Crimson and Clover Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Detroit Rock City Posts: 20,204	Re: Jor-El as a villian? but this time we have CGI!!!!! okay okay, how about this dramatic twist: superman is the bad, right? like really evil mega bad guy, like he punches pregnant jewish women or something. and the only way to stop him is by having him be clark kent, because as clark he wont have his powers and wont be able to do super powered evil things. and only lois can trick him into being clark by tempting him with her woman stuff. but the real drama is, if he's clark, then theres no superman, and if theres no superman who's gonna stop luthor from stealing the cakes of metropolis? __________________ Dear Prudence, won't you come out and play?

06-04-2009, 05:16 PM	#12
The Guard Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,116	Re: Jor-El as a villian? SMALLVILLE already did the only thing that would make this work. Having Zod pose as Jor-El. And even that ended up feeling forced and cheesy. I just don't see the point of a Jor-El who's a villain. There are better counterparts who actually ARE villains to use before this would ever become necessary. __________________ Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL And if I'm right The future's looking bright A symbol in the skies at night

06-04-2009, 05:45 PM	#13
protocida Side-Kick Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,446	Re: Jor-El as a villian? J.J. Abrams did that. In his Script, Jor-El was the dictator of Kandor, and had a son called Ty-Zor with another woman. Kandor survived Krypton's explosion thanks to Jor-El's technology, but his wife, Lara, and her father, Saul-Varn, send his newborn son, Kal-El, to Earth, where he was found by the Kents. In the ending, Superman would depart to Krypton to fight Jor-El, who he believes it's the man who, a prophecy says, will destroy the Universe. He has no idea the real menace prophetized is Lex Luthor.

06-04-2009, 07:05 PM	#14
Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 39,735	Re: Jor-El as a villian? That was the first draft one right? __________________ Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon. Marvel and the House of Mouse? www.ItsJustMovies.com

06-04-2009, 08:40 PM	#16
protocida Side-Kick Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,446	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Wrong. In the 1° draft, Kata-Zor and Ty-Zor were the villains, and Jor-El was a good man. In the 2° draft, Jor-El and Ty-Zor (Who was made his son) we're the villains.

06-04-2009, 08:51 PM	#18
I SEE SPIDEY No shizz Sherlock Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In Superman's arms Posts: 21,623	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Fade, I'm not going to flame you because I like ya but I have to say that I "hate" the idea of Jor-El being evil. __________________ Come think with us:http://thinkmcflythink.squarespace.com/ KEEP BOSTON IN YOUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS. Movies get an "A" for being good, not for effort

06-04-2009, 08:56 PM	#19
protocida Side-Kick Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 10,446	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Forget it... Last edited by protocida; 06-04-2009 at 09:22 PM.

06-04-2009, 09:11 PM	#20
The Guard Side-Kick Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,116	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Based on what, exactly? __________________ Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL And if I'm right The future's looking bright A symbol in the skies at night

06-04-2009, 09:15 PM	#21
Excel O-bama-ama-ama-ay-ay Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Places Posts: 19,470	Re: Jor-El as a villian? I am with Guard. How do you know this? Spoiler!!! Click to Read!: T own, or not to own? That tis the question... __________________ If You Wanna Make The World A Better Place, Take A Look At Yourself, And Then Make A Change R.I.P. Heath

06-04-2009, 09:42 PM	#22
Webhead2006 The Web-Swinger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 39,735	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Ok thanks its been yrs since i read the first draft script of jj so i dont remember all the details of that one. As for the other versions i didnt know of them untill recently. __________________ Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon. Marvel and the House of Mouse? www.ItsJustMovies.com

06-04-2009, 10:55 PM	#23
BATZARRO WWD Campeador Boricua Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In my house! Posts: 785	Re: Jor-El as a villian? OOOOO...kay? Well, I guess if the writers can find a way for Jor El to not be dead on his homeplanet and give him a good motivation for saving his son(if it's out of love, then it's a harder sell to make him evil), it might be possible. Maybe even as a big out of nowhere reveal. That said, it would take granite bawls to do it. __________________ Fighting Hero of the Galaxy is Sci-fi Fantasy done RIGHT! http://batzarro.deviantart.com/ http://bestgeekeverpr.blogspot.com/

06-05-2009, 02:23 AM	#25
Johnny Drama Anti-Hero Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Meow! Posts: 12,198	Re: Jor-El as a villian? Jor-El as villian? Not bad, but I would rather see Dark Jimmy Olsen ans Dark Perry White first. They are just so...dark! __________________ When Goffam iz ashez, U haz my permishun 2 die

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