Character portrayal.

[protocida]

How should the characters of The Avengers be portrayed in the movie. Personality, interaction and power-wise, among others?

Discuss.

[Red Mask]

If this is the first time they're assembling there will be the usual clash of personalities, but mostly on how to handle the danger. I don't care to see them arguing over who's got the bigger dick. That should just be in a Justice League film.

For example, if Nick Fury were to order Thor around I don't want to see the god become all high and mighty on him. He could probably just say something like,"You may have lost your eye in battle, but that doesn't give you the same wisdom as my father". Captain America will probably have a hard time wondering what his place is in this fight, but I think they all should respect each others' abilities and opinions. Maybe in the end Cap will have to decide whether the public should know him with or without the mask.

At the end of the battle, I don't imagine them all standing proudly and flying off in glory. Once again that's something I'd prefer to happen in a Justice League film. Instead, I'd like to see them relax and shake each other's hands. They're like a team that knows they've done a good job and can saunter back home at ease. Stark can wipe the sweat off his face. Cap will don his shield like a bag pack and walk alongside his friends.

[ironman29758]

I could see personalities similar to the ultimate versions of the character(Mark Miller said that Ultimate Tony was largely influenced by the movie http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=16292) so Cap could be the soilder who is trying to find his place in time but is not used to it, Tony is the alcoholic who is trying to save people, people have a hard time beliving Thor is a real god, etc but still use 616 personalities.

[SlackBrian]

I especially like the idea of people looking at Thor like he's just some superpowered nutcase. If Loki is in this film as well, his appearance to the other Avengers could confirm Thor's Godhood. But until then, I'd like the rest of the Avengers to look at Thor as a crazy person who they just happen to need, since he's an incredibly strong crazy person.

[Red Mask]

I think the Justice League has crazier members in general. But as long as they don't blow up the planet I'm fine with that.

[Reikowolf]

the story should be a 'fish out of water' tale, where Steve Rogers is trying to catch up to a world that has changed dramatically around him; further to this, he is being asked to lead a team who he may in fact be reluctant to lead. Add some tension between him and Tony Stark as to who should be the team lead. The story culminating in them having to work together to stop a larger threat.

Basically ultimate avengers... but more adult in nature.

[protocida]

I think the Justice League has crazier members in general.

What do you mean?

[Red Mask]

Originally Posted by protocida

What do you mean?

Their diverse backgrounds and M.O.'s don't really inspire confidence in as a force. None of these people grew up alongside other superheroes. That's their sidekicks who later formed the Teen Titans. Justice League has a real clash of personalities which are bound to get on each others nerves. I'm surprised nobody mentions the boners they'd get when Wonder Woman steps ino the room. If they emphasized their backgrounds as elite or authoritarian I could see where they come from when they make their big decisions. Instead they answer to their own protocols. When the battle is over, and they go help in the relief efforts, I shudder when Superman says,"okay everybody. Pick a continent". Who knows what's going through their minds when that happens. The fact that this team gathers every month scares me because what have they really accomplished for world peace? The villains just keep growing in numbers.

With the Avengers we know they share a lot in common. Most of them have history with war. They're familiar with the kind of power that's needed to fight in large battles. Even Thor knows when to practice restraint. The Hulk was born from the gamma bomb but he's managed not harm innocent people during his rampages. I can believe Captain America will accept the Geneva Conventions because he knows war is hell. He doesn't need to be a hardass all the time because he's seen peace and liberty endure after WW2. Black Widow is a hero who comes from the other side of the world. She offers the alternative perspective. These heroes know the world should become better because of their personal experiences.

[protocida]

Originally Posted by Red Mask

Their diverse backgrounds and M.O.'s don't really inspire confidence in as a force.

I don't see why. You said the Avengers are connected by war. The Justice League is also connected, but by tragedy. Superman's home planet exploded, Batman's parents were murdered, Wonder-Woman's people were enslaved, Flash's mother was murdered and his father was framed, Green Lantern's father's plane crashed and his mother had cancer, Aquaman's parents died, J'onn J'ozz's homeworld was devastated by a virus and etc. And the Avengers also have different M.O.'s and backgrounds.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

None of these people grew up alongside other superheroes. That's their sidekicks who later formed the Teen Titans.

And the Avengers did?

Originally Posted by Red Mask

Justice League has a real clash of personalities which are bound to get on each others nerves.

Every group has. It's how they managed to outcome their personalites and bond that makes them a real group, as JLA: Year One showed us.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

I'm surprised nobody mentions the boners they'd get when Wonder Woman steps into the room.

Same with Black Widow and Scarlett Witch.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

If they emphasized their backgrounds as elite or authoritarian I could see where they come from when they make their big decisions.

I didn't understood that part. You think the JLA should be authoriarian (Like Authority?) to make big decisions? The Avengers aren't, and their decisions are as big.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

Instead they answer to their own protocols.

Their abordages might be difference, but their protocols are the same: Protect humanity. That's what connects them.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

When the battle is over, and they go help in the relief efforts, I shudder when Superman says,"okay everybody. Pick a continent".

I don't quite remember him doing that, but OK.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

Who knows what's going through their minds when that happens.

Help the innocents, I'd say.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

The fact that this team gathers every month scares me because what have they really accomplished for world peace?

They save Earth on a monthly basis. They saved the whole Universe a good number of times. They focus on social issues, like hunger, war and etc. They fight the never-ending battle, as Superman says.

Originally Posted by Red Mask

The villains just keep growing in numbers.

Evil will always exist. Make a costume and commit crimes is easy. (There's a character, the Calculator, who sells deceased villain's equipments, costumes and weapons to average criminals for money.)

Originally Posted by Red Mask

With the Avengers we know they share a lot in common. Most of them have history with war. They're familiar with the kind of power that's needed to fight in large battles. Even Thor knows when to practice restraint. The Hulk was born from the gamma bomb but he's managed not harm innocent people during his rampages. I can believe Captain America will accept the Geneva Conventions because he knows war is hell. He doesn't need to be a hardass all the time because he's seen peace and liberty endure after WW2. Black Widow is a hero who comes from the other side of the world. She offers the alternative perspective. These heroes know the world should become better because of their personal experiences.

Much as the League. Superman has infinite power in his hands, and yet, never lost control. Batman walks on the fin line between heroism and vengeance. Wonder-Woman is a speaker of the peace, but has a background in war. The Flash deals with the seduction of the speed and secrets withim the Speed Force. Green Lantern must protect 140 planets and is tormented by the sins of his past. Aquaman lives with the burden that one half of his inhiretance is poisening the other. J'onn J'ozz is alienated. An stranger in an strange world. Etc.

I recommend Kurt Busiek's Justice League/Avengers. It's a great analysis of both teams, their mistakes and their accomplishments. Great read.

OBS: Sorry for the misspelling. I'm not american.

[Red Mask]

Originally Posted by protocida

I don't see why. You said the Avengers are connected by war. The Justice League is also connected, but by tragedy. Superman's home planet exploded, Batman's parents were murdered, Wonder-Woman's people were enslaved, Flash's mother was murdered and his father was framed, Green Lantern's father's plane crashed and his mother had cancer, Aquaman's parents died, J'onn J'ozz's homeworld was devastated by a virus and etc. And the Avengers also have different M.O.'s and backgrounds.

The personal losses of the J.L.A. aren't all related to fighting crime or upholding the law. Superman may feel alone but DC has written him as being raised on Earth. His values aren't Kryptonian but those of Ma and Pa Kent. That loss is not similar to Bruce Wayne's nor the Martian Manhunter's.

When I wrote that many Avengers share a history with war, I meant they know exactly war does to the world. Many of them have fought in war, or done work that's related to the scale of war. If they have to unite to stop a great threat they'd know well what it takes to get it done and why it must be done.

And the Avengers did? (Grow up alongside other heroes?)

Many of them did, in their training or in their personal battles. Thor has fought for centuries under his father, Odin the All-Father, with the Warriors Three, and the rest of the Aesir. Captain America fought alongside many brave people during World War 2, including heroes like Logan, the Invaders, the Howling Commandos. The Black Widow was saved by Captain America and Logan back in that war. Her own experience as a Soviet spy gives her insight on the results of cloak and dagger tactics.

Every group has. It's how they managed to outcome their personalites and bond that makes them a real group, as JLA: Year One showed us.

But I trust the Avengers more as a stable team than the Justice League.

Same with Black Widow and Scarlett Witch.

They don't have Amazon charged pheromones. Drives men wild.

I didn't understood that part. You think the JLA should be authoriarian (Like Authority?) to make big decisions? The Avengers aren't, and their decisions are as big.

There's little in their background to prove they have the right to get involved in world conflicts other than their great power and infinite growth of supervillains. Thor isn't just Midgard's protector because he's simply a thunder god. He was once worshipped and he's fought many monsters on the planet centuries ago. His background gives some precedence. Captain America was created by order of the U.S. government during World War 2. Black Widow served the Soviet regime. Tony Stark becomes Iron Man for many reasons, from combating hi-tech crimes to exploitive industrial military complex he's a part of. Nick Fury also serves the government.

Their abordages might be difference, but their protocols are the same: Protect humanity. That's what connects them.

Yes, but their mandate isn't very clear. I can trust them to fight a League of Supervillains, but under who's authority do they have to get involved in problems besides supercrime and natural calamities?

I don't quite remember him doing that, but OK.

He said it in the Heaven's Ladder story. Ironically those there good times.

Help the innocents, I'd say.

Yes, but under what mandate and authority do they have to cross borders so freely? What if their efforts hamper one society's own methods of helping victims? What if one area doesn't even need their help while another is completely missed?

They save Earth on a monthly basis. They saved the whole Universe a good number of times. They focus on social issues, like hunger, war and etc. They fight the never-ending battle, as Superman says.


Evil will always exist. Make a costume and commit crimes is easy. (There's a character, the Calculator, who sells deceased villain's equipments, costumes and weapons to average criminals for money.)

That is the tragedy of an on-going serial. The world can't handle countless destruction on that scale. Civilization would be set back, regardless of their wonders. Comics need to have another revamp because their worlds aren't doing so well.

Much as the League. Superman has infinite power in his hands, and yet, never lost control. Batman walks on the fin line between heroism and vengeance. Wonder-Woman is a speaker of the peace, but has a background in war. The Flash deals with the seduction of the speed and secrets withim the Speed Force. Green Lantern must protect 140 planets and is tormented by the sins of his past. Aquaman lives with the burden that one half of his inhiretance is poisening the other. J'onn J'ozz is alienated. An stranger in an strange world. Etc.

I recommend Kurt Busiek's Justice League/Avengers. It's a great analysis of both teams, their mistakes and their accomplishments. Great read.

OBS: Sorry for the misspelling. I'm not american.

I have Busiek's JLA/Avengers. I loved it. But as far as teams go, I have more trust in the Avengers. Since many of them have a history with war, they're more familiar with the amount of power needed do act. Going back on the issue of their authority, I think their backgrounds could give them better right to unite as a force. Superman is descended from one of Krypton's ruling families. Wonder Woman is a princess. Batman is a billionaire. Aquaman is a king. Martian Manhunter was a cop on Mars. Flash works for the police as Barry Allen. Hal Jordan served under the airforce. Despite that, I see a group of superhumans who united by their own decision without permission of recognized authorities. That's insane. At least the Avengers have a liason with the governments.

[protocida]

OK. I respect your opinion.

Just a little comment: The Justice League has the permission of O.N.U. to protect the world. They allow the League to help their contries and, when they don't, the League respects it. Batman even created another group, the Outsiders, when Dr. Bedlam invaded Markovia, an country who didn't allowed super-heroes, and the League was held back to not create and international crisis. They also tracked down one of their members, Hal Jordan, when he started to disobey the Superheroics act and enter Russia, who didn't allowed him. The only moments the government didn't support them were when Max Lord was their manager (They infiltrated Captain Atom in the team) and when Lex Luthor was president of the USA.

Oh, and Superman has both Kryptonian and humans values.

And Superman's family didn't ruled Krypton. His father did worked for the Science Council, but didn't ruled the planet.

[Red Mask]

O.K. The O.N.U. permission sounds more like a contemporary amendment to the JLA's operations. But if JLA member Batman can arbitrarily create a separate group to do that, I'd trust him even less to respect international laws. I also didn't mean that Superman and co. should be considered authoritarian because of their backgrounds. I meant it would help me understand why they feel justified in creating their own army to police the entire world.

[protocida]

Much like the Avengers, they did it because they faced an evil none of them could fight alone.

[Red Mask]

Yes. That's where it works best. But I can't depend on the JLA or the Avengers to handle issues like the garbage problem in Naples. People say the Mafia is responsible for letting it pile-up there, but we all know even Batman can't touch them unless it's in Gotham City. It's better to see them fight super-villains, or save victims nearby.