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Old 07-05-2009, 06:48 PM   #51
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This is actually pretty simple stuff to do....

*Costume: Use this model, darken the blue perhaps a little bit to where the blue looks like Spider-Mans shade of blue from the movie and have Routh actually put on a bit more muscle, just get him to be as muscular as possible...






*Story:
Origin story, with more accurate possibilities and an explanation somehow built in as to how it is possible that he traveled through space, from what galaxy or universe, integrate bubble-theory, etc. The story needs to be less fantastic and a little more realistic... he needs to seem as if he were in the real world with real villians and no campy super villians, at least not in the first story and the entire feel of the movie should be much more serious like on the peace on earth novel...

*Director: Spielberg only because i think tarantino wouldn't do it but tarantino would be my first choice
Its about time we saw a buff Superman in these movies.

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Old 07-05-2009, 07:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

I still get a kick out of seeing these "I guess Spielberg will have to do because {insert far less popular director here} def. wont do it".

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Old 07-06-2009, 05:09 PM   #53
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I still get a kick out of seeing these "I guess Spielberg will have to do because {insert far less popular director here} def. wont do it".
You want a Spielberg Superman? Have a Star Wars/Jurassic Park feel to it too lol. He be oh so wrong for Superman.

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Old 07-07-2009, 11:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

The 21rst century Superman should be in essence, a revolutionary. More than a reactive figure that jumps into picture every time a bank heist or giant robot attack occurs, he should actively try to change the world into a better, fairer place.

Which shouldn't be that easy. I mean, if Superman would throw all the nuclear weapons into the sun, a la Superman: The Quest for Peace, it would piss quite a few people. His actions should not just be met with applause, but also suspicion and doubt.

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Old 07-08-2009, 08:29 AM   #55
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Good point, Batzarro. But what is left then? Global warming? He could just super-freeze the poles and oceans back to normal in a day or two. Too easy!

I dont think they'll be able to come up with a great concept for another movie again. It'll be so-so at best.

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Old 07-08-2009, 08:48 AM   #56
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

Miracle Monday, Birthright, Red Son, or Kingdom Come would all make excellent Superman films.
They dont have to re-invent the wheel. The one they have rolls just fine.

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Old 07-08-2009, 09:35 AM   #57
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

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I must say I am not nearly as knowledgeable as many people on these board in regards to the character of Superman or any other superhero for that matter. Though I am a fan of film, in fact I am a film-maker and avid viewer of characters from a graphic novels in a cinematic setting. Through this some things spring to mind in regards to making a modern and successful Superman film for all.

1) A fresh story: Whatever they call these things these days, reboot, reimagining, beginnings? I think there is great potential for a fresh take within the Superman mythology. The most sensible thing would be to begin with research. To research as much of the source material (DC comics mostly) that is humanly possible. Through this process, you have the forethought to then build a very strong base for the cinematic screenplay. Through constant back and forth between filmmakers and graphic novel experts you build a solid origin story to play with. Yes origin! For two reasons! Firstly to reintroduce this icon to 21st Century and also to sever any connections made with very dated previous cinematic interpretations (including the recent Bryan Singer Film) Though the first film is a very good piece of cinema. I think one way a successful origin would work within modern cinema is through a non-linear format.
Not necessarily Spider-man had a good origin that was a linear format. But yeah that would be good, I feel a new origin would reintroduce people to Superman I mean, people know the basics of it but they need to have their own origin story to see it.

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2) A Good Director: This is obvious but what most people tend to overlook or under-look (if there is such a word) is the previous body of work. They may want a director who has already showcased him/herself through similar genres. Though, a director known for action-adventure may not always be the best candidate. The basic concept of film making is the script! The script is the blueprint! From here a wise director will most of the time know how to deliver this blueprint in a way that is correct, yet within his/her creative sensibilities?

Look outside the box! I am not only suggesting any of these people but providing examples. Danny Boyle, Michael Mann, Tony Gilroy, Paul Thomas Anderson, the Coen Brothers. What would there Superman Be Like? You also need a director that respects the fans opinion, values it greatly but knows he/sheís own mind and is willing to make hard decisions (again with the help of the experts) that may even verge on controversial at times or against the grain but ultimately benefiting the production in the long run.
I think with a good director you need someone whos a fan of the comics as well as the films so they have a broad spectrum of what they need and want. Plus if they're a fan they'd know what fans would want and what they'd like to see.

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3) The Look: Supermanís outfit needs to be updated!! Most superheroes look stupid and would look stupid in realistic context yes, but this guy does not have a good look good for the 21st Century LOL. As someone from the outside looking in I can see why it would be off putting to the modern audience. I believe there are ways to keep the essence of the icon yet still bring him into the 21st century with style and flourish. There has to be.
spider-man's outfit hasnt changed why should superman's?

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4) The Character: Supermanís morals are unusual in this day and age and some may say old fashioned but I think that is a very unique selling point and not a bad thing. I donít think you need to make Superman any darker than he is. You could give him dark moments within the story context (and maybe) give him times of doubt but you do not need to take anything away from what he is. What you can do is deliver him into verisimilitude that is much more threatening and (possibly) darker to match our times without ever taking away from what Superman is (a beacon of light) In fact this gives him more of a challenge if those around him do not look to his ideals. The modern times theme brings off a more dramatic weight and an emotion to the character which he (along with everything else) has to undertake. So when the action comes it should be breath taking and groundbreaking but the emotional under core is what drives it, it is the impetus throughout the story.
what would be cool is if he is a farm boy with ideals like Superman does but the life outside the farm is kind of twisting his morals, so he's in situations where his morals are being challenged making him a more interesting character.

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Old 07-08-2009, 10:41 AM   #58
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

Spider-Man's outfit DID change for the movies. It got a lot more intricate and artsy, if that's even possible with such a design. The SUPERMAN RETURNS suit took page from it in the texturing and raised elements.

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Old 07-08-2009, 11:20 AM   #59
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

Agreed. The Spider-man suit had raised webbing (which was more sliver than black), logo, and eyes. A texture/ pattern through out the suit. It took the basic/ traditional look of Spidey and updated it as did Superman's suit in SR. Spidey's outfit was just better executed, in my opinion of course.

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Old 07-08-2009, 12:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

For me, it wasnt just the suit in SR that was a problem, it was the overall feel of the film. Both needed to be brighter.

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Old 07-08-2009, 02:04 PM   #61
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

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Miracle Monday, Birthright, Red Son, or Kingdom Come would all make excellent Superman films.
They dont have to re-invent the wheel. The one they have rolls just fine.
Wsn't Red Son an esleworld comic were Superman was in Russia fighting for that country instead of the US? Doubt that would work as a Superman movie. Kingdom Come be cool. Joker kills everyone at the daily planet and he gets killed by a super hero at his ttial and its an all out war between the divided super heroes. Sort ofl ike X-Men 3 but hopefully can be handled better.

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Old 07-08-2009, 03:57 PM   #62
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

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The 21rst century Superman should be in essence, a revolutionary. More than a reactive figure that jumps into picture every time a bank heist or giant robot attack occurs, he should actively try to change the world into a better, fairer place.

Which shouldn't be that easy. I mean, if Superman would throw all the nuclear weapons into the sun, a la Superman: The Quest for Peace, it would piss quite a few people. His actions should not just be met with applause, but also suspicion and doubt.
I'd rather not see this. I'd prefer Superman fight powerful aliens than get involved in politics.

The only way I'd like to see this scenario is if Superman were to try to make the world a better place, only to have his actions blow up in his face, reinforcing how many of the world's problems don't have an easy solution. Remember how in the Simpsons Lisa wished for world peace and everyone threw away their weapons only to be attacked by aliens? I wouldn't mind seeing something like that, only less outlandish.

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Old 07-08-2009, 04:21 PM   #63
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Just get rid of everything that links it to the old films. Don't have Clark Kent wear suits that look like they were made in the 70s, Clark shouldn't be a clumsy idiot. I know thats suppose to be sort of his cover but I mean in the Superman cartoons they didnt make Clark Kent a big nerd and it still worked.

Get rid of the old theme music, create something new and fresh. Music is something that can honestly make a movie so much better, i mean 300s soundtrack gave me chills during the movie because it went so well with what was going on onscreen. In SR, everytime they played the superman theme it just seemed tacky and out of place.

I also think they need to rethink the whole idea of having Superman's hair be completely covered in gel. I mean the curl can still be there but have it look natural like a strand of hair coming down over his forehead instead of a clump of hair held together by 20lbs of gel.

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Old 07-08-2009, 06:46 PM   #64
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I'd rather not see this. I'd prefer Superman fight powerful aliens than get involved in politics.

The only way I'd like to see this scenario is if Superman were to try to make the world a better place, only to have his actions blow up in his face, reinforcing how many of the world's problems don't have an easy solution. Remember how in the Simpsons Lisa wished for world peace and everyone threw away their weapons only to be attacked by aliens? I wouldn't mind seeing something like that, only less outlandish.
Lol love Superman to be in politics. Imagine he trying to get the economy good again but it all of a sudden becomes worst then ever including 1929. Then he have to fix everything.

But foreal man **** i would not mind Superman being in politics. Dummies do not know what they doing.

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Old 07-08-2009, 06:47 PM   #65
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Just get rid of everything that links it to the old films. Don't have Clark Kent wear suits that look like they were made in the 70s, Clark shouldn't be a clumsy idiot. I know thats suppose to be sort of his cover but I mean in the Superman cartoons they didnt make Clark Kent a big nerd and it still worked.

Get rid of the old theme music, create something new and fresh. Music is something that can honestly make a movie so much better, i mean 300s soundtrack gave me chills during the movie because it went so well with what was going on onscreen. In SR, everytime they played the superman theme it just seemed tacky and out of place.

I also think they need to rethink the whole idea of having Superman's hair be completely covered in gel. I mean the curl can still be there but have it look natural like a strand of hair coming down over his forehead instead of a clump of hair held together by 20lbs of gel.
Agreed. Dark Knight song gave me chills. No hom brought almost tears to my eyes thats how sick the song was.

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Old 07-08-2009, 10:52 PM   #66
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Just get rid of everything that links it to the old films. Don't have Clark Kent wear suits that look like they were made in the 70s, Clark shouldn't be a clumsy idiot. I know thats suppose to be sort of his cover but I mean in the Superman cartoons they didnt make Clark Kent a big nerd and it still worked.

Get rid of the old theme music, create something new and fresh. Music is something that can honestly make a movie so much better, i mean 300s soundtrack gave me chills during the movie because it went so well with what was going on onscreen. In SR, everytime they played the superman theme it just seemed tacky and out of place.

I also think they need to rethink the whole idea of having Superman's hair be completely covered in gel. I mean the curl can still be there but have it look natural like a strand of hair coming down over his forehead instead of a clump of hair held together by 20lbs of gel.
Yep, very obvious things to a Superman fan. Why WB struggles to see these things and know how to modernize the character baffles me.

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Old 07-17-2009, 07:01 PM   #67
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The 21rst century Superman should be in essence, a revolutionary. More than a reactive figure that jumps into picture every time a bank heist or giant robot attack occurs, he should actively try to change the world into a better, fairer place.

Which shouldn't be that easy. I mean, if Superman would throw all the nuclear weapons into the sun, a la Superman: The Quest for Peace, it would piss quite a few people. His actions should not just be met with applause, but also suspicion and doubt.
Perhaps they could have Lex Luthor used not as a primary villain, but as a Mayoral candidate who nourishes the public suspicion and fear of Superman. In reaction to this, he gets stressed out and Golden Agey. Later, he wins the public trust by defeating Brainiac. The only problem would be how to build him up. It could be cool if he was an advanced AI that LexCorp is working on who hacked past security to manufacture himself a body. This deviates from the traditional origin too much, so it probably wouldn't happen. (Being more of a Marvel fan, I don't really care that much.)

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Old 07-17-2009, 07:45 PM   #68
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Just get rid of everything that links it to the old films. Don't have Clark Kent wear suits that look like they were made in the 70s, Clark shouldn't be a clumsy idiot. I know thats suppose to be sort of his cover but I mean in the Superman cartoons they didnt make Clark Kent a big nerd and it still worked.

Get rid of the old theme music, create something new and fresh. Music is something that can honestly make a movie so much better, i mean 300s soundtrack gave me chills during the movie because it went so well with what was going on onscreen. In SR, everytime they played the superman theme it just seemed tacky and out of place.

I also think they need to rethink the whole idea of having Superman's hair be completely covered in gel. I mean the curl can still be there but have it look natural like a strand of hair coming down over his forehead instead of a clump of hair held together by 20lbs of gel.

I agree get rid of Lois treating clark like dirt. Its so Americen with its dorks and jocks. Which is so 1980's! How the girl like lois always falls for the jock.
Its type cast and it's boring. To be honest it's insulting.I'd sooner have a Clark kent then superman anyday of the week.

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Old 07-17-2009, 07:51 PM   #69
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I agree get rid of Lois treating clark like dirt. Its so Americen with its dorks and jocks. Which is so 1980's! How the girl like lois always falls for the jock.
Its type cast and it's boring. To be honest it's insulting.I'd sooner have a Clark kent then superman anyday of the week.
Agreed. It'd be cool to see them show Clark and Lois as actually being just friends.

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Old 07-17-2009, 10:20 PM   #70
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A fresh take on an origin film that combines elements of naturally comic references, Superman The Movie (& even 2, 3 & 4), Smallville, Superman Returns heck even dab a bit of L&C on the top with an interesting story thats not Lex Luthor orientated (although have him in the film) & especally not an evil plot revolving around land! Brainiac is one I wouldn't mind if it was an origin film considering his origin could be perhaps handled while Kal-Els is at the same time.

Adding things like children & going AWOL for 5 years are alright but are something best saved as twists further along in a franchise I think..

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Old 07-18-2009, 06:41 AM   #71
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"What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century?"

To get out the mindset of the late 20th.

Lose this whole thing of wanting to make him dark or an anti-hero any of the other modern cliches that have defined this long dour and cynical era in pop-culture.

Instead like the new Star Trek movie Superman is something that should be leading the charge into a bold new era where optimism kicks ass.

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Old 07-18-2009, 03:48 PM   #72
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A new suit and lose the undies!

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Old 07-18-2009, 05:10 PM   #73
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Well, fixing Superman is a serious challenge, mostly because DC has spent the last 20+ years running the character into the ground as hard as they can due to fears of Siegel and Shuster's heirs making a dime off of it. Basically in the mid 80's DC transformed Superman from a mature, adult urbanite to a farmboy boy scout. They then pushed as hard as they could the idea that Superman is an establishment stooge, and that he is far inferior to Batman. This was done mostly because Batman's "creator". Bob Kane, completely sold out to DC way back in the beginning and so there would be no business challenge to the characters rights and profits.

Superman is NOT a "BIG BLUE BOY SCOUT". That is Post-Crisis Miller/Byrne BS. Superman, while very noble and heroic, is actually pretty sophisticated. Leaving his parents alive turned Superman into a mama's boy and the dehumanization and demphasiation of his Kryptonian heritage took Superman further away from having vital common ground with Batman because Pre-Crisis, they were both orphans and Superman was orphaned twice. Before Crisis, all of Superman's peers, ESPECIALLY Batman, treated him with complete respect. In the past 20 years, many of them, ESPECIALLY Batman, have disrespected him to varying degrees and Superman has of course flaccidly accepted this. Basically this was when Superman went from being "Kal" to being "Clark".

So a lot of what is broke with Superman was done for business reasons, and was done to make the character patently inferior to the 100% DC/WB owned and controlled Batman. DC/WB doesn't WANT Superman to succeed, and that's why they've replaced him with Batman. However, IF by some chance there was a real effort to make Superman popular again, this is how I'd like to see them go about it:

The best place to take Superman now is to take inspiration from the earliest version of the character. I want to see a Superman who has much less regard for the system and more regard for right and wrong. I want the strong social conscience back. I want a Superman who would lock wealthy mine owners in their unsafe mine to make a point about unsafe working conditions, the Superman who didn't mind terrifying criminals or even the mayor of Metropolis to make a point. I want to see Superman as the hero of the oppressed, smashing tenements to bits and forcing their owners to rebuild safe housing. And I want him to do it all with a cocky smirk, sneering at the rich and defending the less fortunate.

And even though I'm usually more in favor of a more traditional scientist Luthor, the Lexcorp CEO Luthor actually fits in this scenario quite well. But I would want it to be made clear that Lex IS a brilliant scientist and that's where most of his power/wealth has come from.

As for Clark, he needs to be treated as a disguise and as a separate personality from Superman, but I would say with less silliness than the Reeve version. Something between there and George Reeves. I also think he should occasionally slip and act bad-ass before catching himself, especially if the new movie is set early in his career.

Lois needs to be driven and ambitious but they should keep away from some of they Lois Lane cliches. And she doesn't need to call Clark "Smallville" EVER. Clark is NOT a dumb farmboy. I despise that whole angle. Her romance with Superman should grow as much out her agreement for what he is fighting for as his personal charm and confidence and of course his amazing powers. The audience needs to understand 100%: if Superman lost his powers somehow, it would only slow him down, but it wouldn't stop him. What Kal took from the Kents wasn't silly farmboy naivete; instead it was a STRONG moral sense of right and wrong and a real determination to change things in any way possible, and outside of the legal system if need be.

That's the Superman Siegel and Shuster created and DC took from them after the K-Metal story. That's the Superman I want brought back both in the comics and in the movies. And I feel that's the interpretation that would appeal to today's audiences.

And there's no reason to change the costume. It's based on traditional Kryptonian clothes (art-deco Krypton like Siegel intended), and it's worked fine since 1938.


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Old 07-18-2009, 07:45 PM   #74
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Superman doesn't need to be "fixed", he needs to be explored beyond the basics on film. The issue with the movies isn't that they don't explore the basic concepts, it's that they don't go much beyond that, the recent film was dependent on the Donnerverse, and didn't explore many concepts that have been compelling in the comics for years.

Superman has always been something of a Boy Scout, but the character has not lost his ability to be dark, or to have an edge. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Superman has been shown no respect, because Superman has both been shown respect and also been taken to task for various things, all for pretty good reasons over the years.

Clark Kent is very much still a mature adult urbanite.

Superman still has common ground with Batman, and simply both being orphans is not, in itself, half as compelling as their differences in terms of their relationship.

The comics have not, in the least, ignored Superman's Kryptonian heritage.

I fail to see why just having parents who aren't dead makes Clark a "mama's boy".

Lois calling Clark "SMALLVILLE" doesn't actually mean that he is a dumb farm boy any more than her ignoring him for years compared to Superman means that he has no likeable qualities.

Could you have any more of an agenda? Why not just call the film SUPERMAN: 1938?

I don't think you've been reading Superman comics regularly, though, as the comics have played with both old and new ideas for about a decade and a half now.

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Old 07-18-2009, 08:01 PM   #75
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Default Re: What is needed to Bring Superman into the 21st Century

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...................
Superman is NOT a "BIG BLUE BOY SCOUT". That is Post-Crisis Miller/Byrne BS. Superman, while very noble and heroic, is actually pretty sophisticated. Leaving his parents alive turned Superman into a mama's boy and the dehumanization and demphasiation of his Kryptonian heritage took Superman further away from having vital common ground with Batman because Pre-Crisis, they were both orphans and Superman was orphaned twice. Before Crisis, all of Superman's peers, ESPECIALLY Batman, treated him with complete respect. In the past 20 years, many of them, ESPECIALLY Batman, have disrespected him to varying degrees and Superman has of course flaccidly accepted this. Basically this was when Superman went from being "Kal" to being "Clark".

....................

The best place to take Superman now is to take inspiration from the earliest version of the character. I want to see a Superman who has much less regard for the system and more regard for right and wrong. I want the strong social conscience back. I want a Superman who would lock wealthy mine owners in their unsafe mine to make a point about unsafe working conditions, the Superman who didn't mind terrifying criminals or even the mayor of Metropolis to make a point. I want to see Superman as the hero of the oppressed, smashing tenements to bits and forcing their owners to rebuild safe housing. And I want him to do it all with a cocky smirk, sneering at the rich and defending the less fortunate.

And even though I'm usually more in favor of a more traditional scientist Luthor, the Lexcorp CEO Luthor actually fits in this scenario quite well. But I would want it to be made clear that Lex IS a brilliant scientist and that's where most of his power/wealth has come from.

As for Clark, he needs to be treated as a disguise and as a separate personality from Superman, but I would say with less silliness than the Reeve version. Something between there and George Reeves. I also think he should occasionally slip and act bad-ass before catching himself, especially if the new movie is set early in his career.

Lois needs to be driven and ambitious but they should keep away from some of they Lois Lane cliches. And she doesn't need to call Clark "Smallville" EVER. Clark is NOT a dumb farmboy. I despise that whole angle. Her romance with Superman should grow as much out her agreement for what he is fighting for as his personal charm and confidence and of course his amazing powers. The audience needs to understand 100%: if Superman lost his powers somehow, it would only slow him down, but it wouldn't stop him. What Kal took from the Kents wasn't silly farmboy naivete; instead it was a STRONG moral sense of right and wrong and a real determination to change things in any way possible, and outside of the legal system if need be.

That's the Superman Siegel and Shuster created and DC took from them after the K-Metal story. That's the Superman I want brought back both in the comics and in the movies. And I feel that's the interpretation that would appeal to today's audiences.

And there's no reason to change the costume. It's based on traditional Kryptonian clothes (art-deco Krypton like Siegel intended), and it's worked fine since 1938.
While I completely disagree with your stance that DC deliberately made Superman a less interesting character over the past twenty years (a part of your post I chose to delete), I do find myself in agreement on some of your points.... I do think Lois needs to be a driven character. I have no prob with her referring to Clark as 'Smallville'. In fact, I find it a term of endearment.

I've been reading Superman pretty regularly since the early 1960's (and have read stories earlier than that) and can, in all confidence, tell you that the big blue boyscout predated Byrne and Byrne was getting away from that. You're Byrne dislike has coloured your opinion. The boyscout angle was most prominent during the period of the Donner movie where the point was driven home like a large spike in a rusty railway.

However, having stated that Byrne was not the culprit for the 'Boyscout' angle, I'm in agreement that it has to end. Clark has seen far too much of the world to be that naive. I want to start a chant ... 'No More Naive Superman, No More Naive Superman, No More Naive Superman'.

I don't want Clark to be a cover for Superman. I've stated many times that the Kent's raised a boy named Clark and that's who the central person is. When he's dressed as Superman and in front of the public ... he's a pose. When he's wearing glasses and sitting in a news room or chasing down a story - it's only partially a pose. Clark in the glasses is just a more reserved version of Superman when the big S is NOT in front of the public.

I sort of agree with your sentiments about Superman and how he would handle some outrageously morally wrong issues. I don't think he needs to go to extremes but I do remember an epi of the George Reeve's series where he left some goons stranded on top of an iceberg. I don't really want to see him cause anyone's death but I also am not interested in a weak kneed version of the character.

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