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View Poll Results: What did you think of TF:ROTF?
So so 65 16.37%
Good 83 20.91%
Awesome 140 35.26%
Bad 44 11.08%
Really bad 65 16.37%
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:37 PM   #251
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Chibi,

Some people give this franchise a pass, like me, for the simple fact that the economics of making a real live action Transformers film, one with great characters, epic scope and action that delve deep into the mythos without human interaction...CAN NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED to where a studio can make a profit out of it.

With your characters being total CG creations, it can't be accomplished for anything less than 400 million...300 million at the minimum. No studio is ever going to greenlight something of that size.

Now, that doesn't mean this particular version of the franchise is not without its faults. Like the last film, it seems that we get a lot of filler instead of a streamlined story. Yet, I can pretty much guess what might be wrong with the film and it was what was wrong with the last film...Bay shots around the robots.

Ask yourself a question...why?

He really has no other choice. The only true way to do a real Transformers film in this day and age is an animated film, not live action.

Not what we want, but it'll be the closes thing you'll get to a real Transformers film.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 02:39 PM   #252
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No matter how great Bay would make the human characters and their story arcs, we'd still rather watch the damn robots more than anything else...so, at its every essence, a live action Transformers film can't work...

 
Old 06-23-2009, 02:40 PM   #253
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Watch the movie first. Then ask Mr. Bay. There is a reason why the Decepticons didn't fight him.
Then the Autobots should have fought him and it should have been hard to take him down. Sounds to me like a Superman movie. You introduce Darkseid or Brainiac, only to kill him in 5 seconds. The least you can do is have Darkseid destroy half of Metropolis and rape Jimmy Olsen!
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This is stupid. You can apply that same, flawed, stupid logic to any movie.

You are only calling critics idiots because they didn't like your pet movie.

This isn't supposed to be a masterpiece? Could've fooled me the way some of the fans treat these movies and worship at the altar of Michael Bay. Also the way people defend this ****.



I wasn't expecting it to rival The Dark Knight either Chaseter. AND IT STILL SUCKED.

Is it too much to ****ing ask for the Autobots and Decepticons to have some actual characterization and be sort of relevant to what occurs in the movie?
I agree with you. But with Chaseter as well:

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What standard exists that encompasses giant fighting robots and explosions? That is why most critics are idiots, because they grade every movie using the same criteria. Romantic comedies are suppose to be different than dramas. Psychological thrillers are different than slasher flicks. The list goes on and on. I know this film won't be amazing or a masterpiece of cinema...it isn't suppose to be.
Thing is, that this movie is retarded irrelevant of the category you put it in. It could have had a coherent plot, some character characterisation and development.


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Old 06-23-2009, 02:42 PM   #254
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That doesn't make sense to me. And the human characters in this movie are terrible and painful to watch.

So we can't see a good Transformer movie because no one will see a movie where the Robots are the main characters and actually INTERACT?

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:43 PM   #255
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Then the Autobots should have fought him and it should have been hard to take him down. Sounds to me like a Superman movie. You introduce Darkseid or Brainiac, only to kill him in 5 seconds. The least you can do is have Darkseid destroy half of Metropolis and rape Jimmy Olsen!
HAHA

I wish Devastator would step on Jimmy Olsen...and Shia I loathe Shia, the kid is the luckiest **** in Hollywood for being one of the worst actors working today.

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:44 PM   #256
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The writing on the wall was written for this film during the Summer of 2007. When Paramount gave that date, it was over for Bay.

With the strike and the fact that Paramount was not going to change that date, what was everyone expecting?

Bay does the first outline...the writers do the second...four weeks to turn in a draft of the script before the strike...then basically rewrite as they shoot...not to mention Bay has to address the criticisms from fans about not enough robots...so he has to have way more robots...but ILM has less time to do more robots than the first film...

...does anyone not see the picture?

Still haven't seen it but I'm still happily looking forward to it because I know what I'm in for and I love Bay. He's the only one I let slide in this industry because he's always entertained me to no end. If he can figure out to make an epic film that somewhat coherent in less time and prep than he did with the previous film, I'm calling it a masterpiece, no matter what I really think about it.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 02:47 PM   #257
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I hope you are entertained by Devastator's wrecking ball genitalia.

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:48 PM   #258
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Vile,

Depends on if the moment works for me or not. It may not. I have no idea. But, the idea that Michael Bay put that in a Transformers film makes me admire him even more. He just doesn't give two craps about what people think.

That guy has brass balls (pun intended).

 
Old 06-23-2009, 02:53 PM   #259
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The writing on the wall was written for this film during the Summer of 2007. When Paramount gave that date, it was over for Bay.

With the strike and the fact that Paramount was not going to change that date, what was everyone expecting?

Bay does the first outline...the writers do the second...four weeks to turn in a draft of the script before the strike...then basically rewrite as they shoot...not to mention Bay has to address the criticisms from fans about not enough robots...so he has to have way more robots...but ILM has less time to do more robots than the first film...

...does anyone not see the picture?

Still haven't seen it but I'm still happily looking forward to it because I know what I'm in for and I love Bay. He's the only one I let slide in this industry because he's always entertained me to no end. If he can figure out to make an epic film that somewhat coherent in less time and prep than he did with the previous film, I'm calling it a masterpiece, no matter what I really think about it.
Complains about previous movie:
1) Not enough robots
2) not enough Prime
3) Prime is weak
4) too many humans

What does he do? Well:
1) Too many robots. Robots that were dead come back (why cant you use barricade instead?), some robots appear in two places at the same time. Protoforms as cannon fodder.
2) Everyone else is a secondary character. Robots walk around the screen. Who cares who they are and what they do? They look cool, things blow up and Megan Fox has had lip surgery.
3) Prime owns everyone, including the Fallen, who beat the 12 other Primes single handed.
4) Less humans. Only good thing he did.


He basically brainstormed ideas which he didnt take the time to fit together and make into a coherent movie. He probably wrote the thing while doing coke and blowing his house up and taking a ****. And he is proud of it.

Of course i havent seen the movie yet, but its what i gather from you guys.

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:54 PM   #260
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This isn't supposed to be a masterpiece? Could've fooled me the way some of the fans treat these movies and worship at the altar of Michael Bay. Also the way people defend this ****.
There's a difference between going "Lay off it, it's fun" and everyone claiming it's a masterpiece. I don't think anyone has claimed it's a masterpiece, though if they did, it's clearly hyperbole.

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Is it too much to ****ing ask for the Autobots and Decepticons to have some actual characterization and be sort of relevant to what occurs in the movie?
So...we're to believe that the Autobots and Decepticons are completely irrelevant to the movie's events?

I have a hard time believing that.

Is it too much to ask that they all have some "actual characterization"? In a movie with other main characters?

Yes, it probably is too much to ask. This is Hollywood, after all.

Watch the X-MEN movies. Notice how only certain characters get characterization and development, and many others are relegated to cameos and small roles? That's because the movies have a ****ton of characters, and a few main characters. Main characters take up screentime. So do minor characters, but when you start to have several main arcs that already do, it becomes difficult to find appropriate time for others. There's simply not enough screentime, even in a 2:30 movies, for Prime, Bumblee, Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, The Fallen, etc, etc, to all have their own character arcs and a ****ton of "characterization". Especially when there's so much action, which people tend to demand from a Transformer movie. There's time for them to have "moments", and it seems ROTF gives them their moments.

This is the reality of such a concept, and such a film. Is it ridiculous to expect some characterization? No, not at all. What kinds of characterization would you like to have seen?

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:58 PM   #261
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Earle,

You don't think Bay didn't want an extra six months to a year to prep this film? Really?

"So...we're to believe that the Autobots are completely irrelevant to the movie's events?

Is it too much to ask that they all have some "actual characterization"? In a movie with other main characters?

Yes, probably. This is Hollywood, after all.

Watch the X-MEN movies. Notice how only certain characters get characterization and development, and many others are relegated to cameos and small roles. That's because the movies have main characters. Main characters take up screentime. There's simply not enough screentime for Prime, Bumblee, Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, The Fallen, etc, etc, to all have their own character arcs and a ****ton of "characterization". Especially when there's so much action, which people tend to demand from a Transformer movie.

Is it ridiculous to expect some characterization? No, not at all. What kinds of characterization would you like to have seen?"

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:01 PM   #262
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Some of these robots in these films are exactly what some people are in other films...EXTRAS....Nothing wrong with a CG character being an EXTRA in a film.

To me, it gives it a sense of reality. Not every CG character can and should have character development. Sometimes, the first impression of said character defines the character enough to not need the extra time with the character...happens all the time in films.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:01 PM   #263
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Some of these robots in these films are exactly what some people are in other films...EXTRAS....Nothing wrong with a CG character being an EXTRA in a film.

To me, it gives it a sense of reality. Not every CG character can and should have character development. Sometimes, the first impression of said character defines the character enough to not need the extra time with the character...happens all the time in films.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:02 PM   #264
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So...we're to believe that the Autobots are completely irrelevant to the movie's events?
PRETTY MUCH YEAH! The moment it looks like Arcee MIGHT actually do something, she gets blown away. The American military looked like it did more damage to the Decepticons than the Autobots.

Decepticons are apparently ridiculously vulnerable to conventional gunfire despite having insane laser fire power and bazookas as well as having the ability to easily destroy entire aircraft carriers and military subs.

Quote:
Is it too much to ask that they all have some "actual characterization"? In a movie with other main characters?
This movie is two and a half hours and they couldn't see fit to maybe develop some other robot characters and give them some actual substance besides all the **** with Simmons, Anthony Anderson in the first movie, and the blonde hacker that can't act worth a ****?

Quote:
Yes, probably. This is Hollywood, after all.
To me the the attitude I find pathetic is how accepting you are of it. Like I should just accept how **** it is and just like it for its ****tiness. Its ****, but it had to be **** because they had to meet the **** standards of Hollywood and the **** in Hollywood not getting better so I should just LAY OFF AND ROLL IN THE MUD OF ****.

Quote:
Watch the X-MEN movies. Notice how only certain characters get characterization and development, and many others are relegated to cameos and small roles. That's because the movies have main characters. Main characters take up screentime. There's simply not enough screentime for Prime, Bumblee, Ironhide, Ratchet, Jazz, Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, The Fallen, etc, etc, to all have their own character arcs and a ****ton of "characterization". Especially when there's so much action, which people tend to demand from a Transformer movie.
There is enough. Having seen the movie. There was a lot of **** they could've cut out completely. The action scenes go way too freaking long and become tiresome.

Quote:
Is it ridiculous to expect some characterization? No, not at all. What kinds of characterization would you like to have seen?
The Autobots could be more than essentially CAMEOS with one or two lines. Ratchet has all of but one line in the movie. There's an Autobot from out of nowhere at the end called Jolt who just pops up but was never travelling with the Autobots before or seen in Nest or with the military commandoes. The movie is INCOMPREHENSIBLE.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:03 PM   #265
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Well, just like in Wolverine, a lot of useless cameos take up important time and space. They did go overboard in the robot department this time. 40-something robots is and was overkill.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:03 PM   #266
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Earle,

You don't think Bay didn't want an extra six months to a year to prep this film? Really?
I think that i could fill 50% of the plot holes and idiocies of the movie in half an hour.
I would replace Grindor with Barricade or simply revive Blackout for one.
I would change the plot so that a TF that beat the 12 original Primes isnt taken down in 5 seconds by Prime with a jetpack.

Simple things like these, that Bay is too stupid to think of.
I know.... I am a genius.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:06 PM   #267
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PRETTY MUCH YEAH! The moment it looks like Arcee MIGHT actually do something, she gets blown away. The American military looked like it did more damage to the Decepticons than the Autobots.

Decepticons are apparently ridiculously vulnerable to conventional gunfire despite having insane laser fire power and bazookas as well as having the ability to easily destroy entire aircraft carriers and military subs.



This movie is two and a half hours and they couldn't see fit to maybe develop some other robot characters and give them some actual substance besides all the **** with Simmons, Anthony Anderson in the first movie, and the blonde hacker that can't act worth a ****?



To me the the attitude I find pathetic is how accepting you are of it. Like I should just accept how **** it is and just like it for its ****tiness. Its ****, but it had to be **** because they had to meet the **** standards of Hollywood and the **** in Hollywood not getting better so I should just LAY OFF AND ROLL IN THE MUD OF ****.



There is enough. Having seen the movie. There was a lot of **** they could've cut out completely. The action scenes go way too freaking long and become tiresome.



The Autobots could be more than essentially CAMEOS with one or two lines. Ratchet has all of but one line in the movie. There's an Autobot from out of nowhere at the end called Jolt who just pops up but was never travelling with the Autobots before or seen in Nest or with the military commandoes. The movie is INCOMPREHENSIBLE.
I love you man! I completely agree!

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:07 PM   #268
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Thing is, that this movie is retarded irrelevant of the category you put it in. It could have had a coherent plot, some character characterisation and development.
It could have. It could have been so good that it gets nominated for Oscars in 12 categories. But, this isn't suppose to be a romp into the social deconstruction of an alien, robotic race that must overcome hate and fear amongst humans while dealing with militant factions of their own species. Can they deal with the dichotomy?

This movie is just like the first movie, but bigger and flashier. It has more lame jokes, it has more action, it has more robots, etc...

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:08 PM   #269
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Earle,

Bay didn't think or didn't have time...or the writers didn't do their job? Which one do you really think happened?

Okay...Prime taking out the Fallen in five seconds? We are talking about Optimus Prime...the last Prime, right?

If Prime is as badass in this film as everyone is saying he is...why is everyone surprised that he took out an aging Fallen character? With enhancements no less....

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:13 PM   #270
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Seriously I'm sick of this acceptance of ****.

People act like spectacles, blockbusters, and popcorn movies can't be good.

Chaseter, my favorite movies didn't get nominated for or win 12 oscars, but they were still better than this ****. Stop with your strawman arguments that people are expecting oscar caliber work. WE AREN'T! It doesn't have to win an Academy Award to be COHERENT.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:15 PM   #271
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Vile,

Not saying you're not correct but look at it from the other side...look at the time table Bay had to work with and then decided whether or not the film deserves this type of venom its getting.

A film of this size and scope should take at least THREE years to get made not a year and 10 months. Bay had almost two and a half years on the first film.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:18 PM   #272
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It could have. It could have been so good that it gets nominated for Oscars in 12 categories. But, this isn't suppose to be a romp into the social deconstruction of an alien, robotic race that must overcome hate and fear amongst humans while dealing with militant factions of their own species. Can they deal with the dichotomy?

This movie is just like the first movie, but bigger and flashier. It has more lame jokes, it has more action, it has more robots, etc...
I am not asking for citizen Cain from Cybertron. But the rest of the autobots could have more dialogue instead of Prime doing all the conversation. There could be more coherence with the plot and the robots that are used. Sam could see his vision without being mortally wounded, so he could wake up without us going "WTF?". Simple things like that.

You know Ice Age wasnt really that deep. Its was a fun 2 hours. But it wasnt retarded. This is retarded. And all i am asking is for it to have been more taken care of. Is it so hard to understand what i mean?
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Earle,

Bay didn't think or didn't have time...or the writers didn't do their job? Which one do you really think happened?

Okay...Prime taking out the Fallen in five seconds? We are talking about Optimus Prime...the last Prime, right?

If Prime is as badass in this film as everyone is saying he is...why is everyone surprised that he took out an aging Fallen character? With enhancements no less....
Prime isnt one of the original 13. And even if he was, why can he take the Fallen all by himself now when the all the original Primes together couldnt do it?
And yes, Prime should be a badass, but to a point. He should be equal to Megatron, not Unicron.
Megatron went from a badass, scary villain to a punching bag for Prime to prove his badassery and for Bay to make up for the first film. Same with the Fallen.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:21 PM   #273
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Vile,

Not saying you're not correct but look at it from the other side...look at the time table Bay had to work with and then decided whether or not the film deserves this type of venom its getting.

A film of this size and scope should take at least THREE years to get made not a year and 10 months. Bay had almost two and a half years on the first film.
Howlett, all you are harping on the time table. And honestly. Its not enough of an excuse to me. They could've cut some of the stupid **** out and decided to put I dunno some actual worthwhile stuff in.

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Old 06-23-2009, 03:25 PM   #274
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Vile,

That worthwhile stuff is a matter of opinion, but again, you could be right and I could be totally wrong.

I still say, a live action Transformers film in a way the fans want it, isn't achievable. Not with the cost of visual effects.

 
Old 06-23-2009, 03:28 PM   #275
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Question: I hear that after Prime jumps on Demolishor, he asks him to "pull over". I dont know what happens next but i can only assume that Demolishor jobs to Prime as well.
Is there a logical reason why he doesnt grab Prime from his face and squash him in his fist? Seriously now...

And that reminds me, people report that in that scene, NEST sends a ton of Autobots and soldiers, only for Prime alone to take down Demolishor. Does he do everything in this movie? What the hell are those goddamn cannons on Ironhides arms for?

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