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Old 06-24-2009, 06:59 PM   #301
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

So, just watched the movie. I don't know about racist, but they are incredibly annoying and a waste of screen time and money. They had 3 Arcee's, I wouldn't have minded if one of them would've traveled with the group. I just can't fathom how they thought it'd be a good idea to waste so much time on them, when you got a new badass like Sideswipe around.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:06 PM   #302
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Now that I agree with, even though I thought the Twins were funny. It would've been much better to have Sideswipe and Arcee travel with Bumblebee and the others, and just not have them at all.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:25 PM   #303
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Monkey faces? Don't pretty much all the Transformers have "monkey faces"?
Except there is a huge difference between Skids and Mudflap and Ironhide and Bumblebee and all the other Transformers. You're only kidding yourself if you don't see the huge difference

http://thespotlightreport.files.word...mudflap-01.jpg

http://transformersfc.files.wordpres...-bumblebee.jpg

Clearly Mudflap and Skids looked like monkeys which was used as a derogatory image for african-americans

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:39 PM   #304
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I think i'm the only person who loved the Twins. They made me LOL...and made all the kids LOL too.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:42 PM   #305
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^ I didn't love them, but I thought they were funny.

I've said this before, but, I would've preferred not having them at all. Instead I'd have Sideswipe and Arcee travelling with Bumblebee, Sam and the others. But maybe that's just me.

Wheelie was the really funny one, imo.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:44 PM   #306
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I think i'm the only person who loved the Twins. They made me LOL...and made all the kids LOL too.
You're not alone. I enjoyed them.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:55 PM   #307
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I'm not the sensitive type at all when it comes to race in movies but this was offensive. There was no reason for them to have monkey faces. They're use of language including "pussy" was just uncalled for and stupid. None of the other Transformers looked like that. And I don't know how it was in other theaters but people didn't laugh at them very much in mine.
Can you explain to me how the word "pussy" was used in the film? Like in what context.

If it was used to describe a vagina then I can agree that might be a bit much for a PG-13 but if it was someone calling someone else a pussy I don't see the problem.

I can't speak for everyone but when I hear someone call another person a pussy I don't instantly think of Vagina but "wuss" or "weakling". I think it's safe to say(at least with a lot of people I know) that it's become one of those terms that has been used so much and for so long that it's not always connected to the true meaning of the word.

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:56 PM   #308
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

wow

guard really pulled out the old oxford definition on someone

haven't seen you do that in ages

I love how everyone is pulling every weapon out against this film(especially Devin over at Chud, I mean ok you gave it a bad review, now it's all about convincing everyone that you hit the nail on the head lolz)

I'm "black"

personally I have 3 thoughts on all of this

1. there are more then just 2 black transformers in this film. Optimus is as black as they come,(he's gangster, and no one steps to him cause he doesn't take no mess)...BUT, people only notice the characters with the "sterotype" (says more about the audience than the producers if you ask me)

2. Why can their be dozens of films with less then prestigious black characters doing funny, "stereotypical" things in them and no one says a word, especially of racism ie all the tyler perry films, barbershop, the Friday films...etc
but bay has some movies with black comedy elements and he's a "wrong doer"

is it because he's white?

3.it's summer fun, let it be, it's not like it's a michael moore film and he's trying to say something
The only people I see being affected by the characters are uptight tight rope walking caucasians, who feel it's their place to tell me when I should be offended. People who hate bay and will jump on the hate wagon, and of course maybe klan members who will hate the film for having characters, they see with stereotypes they imposed into society being heroes.

the average black audience will enjoy the so called "black" humor elements in this as much as they bad boys one or the boondocks show.
In fact, it will give them something to grab onto (bays films make money...)

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Old 06-24-2009, 08:58 PM   #309
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

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Can you explain to me how the word "pussy" was used in the film? Like in what context.

If it was used to describe a vagina then I can agree that might be a bit much for a PG-13 but if it was someone calling someone else a pussy I don't see the problem.

I can't speak for everyone but when I hear someone call another person a pussy I don't instantly think of Vagina but "wuss" or "weakling". I think it's safe to say(at least with a lot of people I know) that it's become one of those terms that has been used so much and for so long that it's not always connected to the true meaning of the word.
'Pussy' = wuss

In the movie.

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:04 PM   #310
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Except there is a huge difference between Skids and Mudflap and Ironhide and Bumblebee and all the other Transformers. You're only kidding yourself if you don't see
the huge difference.
I see...so now it's "They look different than the others".

They're supposed to be different, in appearance, in style, and in tone, so that frankly, pretty much makes sense from a design standpoint.

I didn't realize I'd been responding to a statement you made about them looking "different" than the other Transformers, though.

I could have sworn that you made a point about monkeys, and that I responded to it with the obvious: All the movie Autobots seem to have some simian like attributes. Even Prime, in some respects.

http://ekle.us/media/Transformers/OptimusHead.jpg

Quote:
Can you explain to me how the word "pussy" was used in the film? Like in what context.
They more or less playfully called people a pussy. Like "That's because you're a pussy!"

Quote:
wow

guard really pulled out the old oxford definition on someone

haven't seen you do that in ages
Usually I don't need to. But apparently people need reminded what racism actually means.

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Old 06-24-2009, 09:08 PM   #311
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I see...so now it's "They look different than the others".

They're supposed to be different, in appearance, in style, and in tone, so that frankly, pretty much makes sense from a design standpoint.

I didn't realize I'd been responding to a statement you made about them looking "different" than the other Transformers, though.

I could have sworn that you made a point about monkeys, and that I responded to it with the obvious: All the movie Autobots seem to have some simian like attributes. Even Prime, in some respects.

http://ekle.us/media/Transformers/OptimusHead.jpg
not bad

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:01 PM   #312
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

It's hit the mainstream media now...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090625/..._jar_jar_again

Quote:
"I purely did it for kids," the director said. "Young kids love these robots, because it makes it more accessible to them."

Screenwriters Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman said they followed Bay's lead in creating the twins.
So the blame lies with Bay. What a surprise.

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:06 PM   #313
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

^So basically giant robots that transform into vehicles and fight each other wasn't accessible enough for them.

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:16 PM   #314
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

Personally, i thought the Twins were awesome. I'd pay just to hear all their lines again.

"see, this is called hiding like a ninja..." i loved that. that and "Of course it hurts, its an ass-whoopin."

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:21 PM   #315
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

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^So basically giant robots that transform into vehicles and fight each other wasn't accessible enough for them.
yea that would equate to the giant robot from terminator salvation

or the magazord

kids like wonky personalities with their hero robots

just watch any cartoon

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:31 PM   #316
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So the blame lies with Bay. What a surprise.
Theres nothing to blame, they werent racist or stereotypical of any culture, in essence.. they where stupid robots & thats where the discussion really ends in my head..

Anyone who implys that because the robots act a certain way they are making fun of black people is the racist themselves for applying such a steriotype.

The lead article the OP quotes, the writer mentions that because they have a lack of reading & act the way they do its racist.. so therefore he is the person thats effectivly trying to steriotype all black people by insinuating that black people can't read..

This argument is so retarded its unbelievable.. they wheren't racist, anyone who says they are is a moron..

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Old 06-24-2009, 11:55 PM   #317
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I have to admit, I honestly didn't hate them as much as I initially thought I would, and thought they a little amusing at times. Still don't like them though.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think they were racist caricatures. They pretty much lived up to my expectations of them being the village idiots of the Autobots and being street punk parodies.

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Old 06-25-2009, 12:15 AM   #318
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Theres nothing to blame, they werent racist or stereotypical of any culture, in essence.. they were stupid robots & thats where the discussion really ends in my head..
Indeed - that's what I meant. Bay is to blame for their stupidity and their annoying presence throughout the film. I don't think Bay's racist. He's just guilty of giving two incredibly stupid characters a huge role when other more interesting robots were relegated to the background.

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This argument is so retarded its unbelievable.. they weren't racist, anyone who says they are is a moron..
Hmmm -- what if I said that anyone who didn't think the Twins were stupid was a moron?

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Old 06-25-2009, 12:18 AM   #319
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/new...sformers-2.php

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Cole: I heard that the gold tooth was Michael Bay’s idea, but do you have any response to those who found The Twins offensive?

Orci: Number one, we sympathize. Yes, the gold tooth was not in the script, that’s true.

Kurtzman: It’s really hard for us to sit here and try to justify it. I think that would be very foolish, and if someone wants to be offended by it, it’s their right. We were very surprised when we saw it, too, and it’s a choice that was made. If anything, it just shows you that we don’t control every aspect of the movie.

Cole: Were you offended by them?

Kurtzman: I wasn’t thrilled. I certainly wasn’t thrilled.

Orci: Yeah, same reaction. I’m not easily offended, but when I saw it, I thought, ‘Someone’s gonna write about that.’”
If the writers can see the writing on the wall I guess the reactions aren't too far off base.

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Old 06-25-2009, 12:21 AM   #320
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

Ha, the writers point at Bay, Bay points at the voice actors, etc.

Just let it go.

To me they just came off as rednecks who watch too much MTV. Or as has been said, two bots who scanned MTV to get personalities.

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Old 06-25-2009, 12:41 AM   #321
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

two young robots start talking hip hop slang and act less mature then their higher ups and it's racism...really



just wait until the slow talking dino bots show up

that (kids) cartoon show from the 90's, "botsmaster" was the epitome of the idea at play here

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That crazy Bay, what ever could he have been thinking

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Old 06-25-2009, 12:57 AM   #322
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

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^ I didn't love them, but I thought they were funny.

I've said this before, but, I would've preferred not having them at all. Instead I'd have Sideswipe and Arcee travelling with Bumblebee, Sam and the others. But maybe that's just me.

Wheelie was the really funny one, imo.
I just want to share my thoughts on the twins.

1. They weren't really annoying.

2. I felt they didn't hog much screen time.

3. I felt their scenes were quick.

4. While I lol'd a lot, I thought they were funny but they're okay. I don't think I like them as much as I do for the autobots I mention in 7. and 8.

5. While I agree with Jake and a lot of you, certainly the other autobots could have joined the group. I'd rather have had Sideswipe and Arcee.

6. Wheelie was an awesome addition.

7. Bumblee - always gets my love. I thought he stole the show for once in his scenes, especially when he went Yippee-ki-yay, motherf***** on their asses. hahaha.

I love you Bumblebee!!

8. I'm gonna say this again, both Prime and Bumblebee stole the show!! They were badass but also so were the decepticons!

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Old 06-25-2009, 01:07 AM   #323
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I hardly care about the transformers element of the discussion. But the idea that seems to be coalescing in some of the arguements here, although I understand not directly said, is that negative stereotypes are not damaging or upsetting. Thats just a little foreign to me. If someone who can identify themself as a member of a specific group, be it mormons, men, women, people with ADD, fat people, muslims, or specific races, constantly sees themself in popular culture as primarily one thing, thats powerful. There are a lot of people recovering from anorexia, there are sex addicts, and there are men who abuse and women who have been abused; those who fit the mold or would argue at length that to a great extent we are what we eat.

I dont think malice is a necessity for something to be racist. I doubt Bay meant anything by the Twins portrayal. Many people today are saying/creating/doing things that have racist undercurrents because they are ignorant, as in the "uninformed" definition. Thats why you hear so many scholars on the subject of race constantly saying "more dialogue" is needed.

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Old 06-25-2009, 01:08 AM   #324
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How so? The only ones griping about this are white reviewers. True, there aren't any black movie reviewers around that aren't really well known, but I have yet to see any black people online gripe about this, or in person upon seeing the commercials.
oh I though he was talking about people in general. anyway I'm seeing the movie this weekend. But back to the subject I don't see any point in making a big deal about this. What do they hope to get, more people that are cry babies to not see the movie. I'm a huge fan of Transformers and I want the movie to do well. What there doing is rude.

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Old 06-25-2009, 01:09 AM   #325
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

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Theres nothing to blame, they werent racist or stereotypical of any culture, in essence.. they where stupid robots & thats where the discussion really ends in my head..

Anyone who implies that because the robots act a certain way they are making fun of black people is the racist themselves for applying such a stereotype.

The lead article the OP quotes, the writer mentions that because they have a lack of reading & act the way they do its racist.. so therefore he is the person thats effectively trying to stereotype all black people by insinuating that black people can't read..
pretty much summed it up

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