The Twins: Racist?

[Da-Scribe]

Originally Posted by ClintF

I, like most on here am tired of hearing everyone get on their soapbox to protest anything they can find in the world. Someone hit the nail on the head in here by saying that if you think of african americans when you see the twins' moronic non-educated behavior the YOU are the racist by implying all african americans are "stupid". Again the bottom line is that only non-educated illiterate morons should be offended by the twins.

Agreed. And stating that they are the "black" robots is implying that the more-educated transformers are not. Optimus has just as much potential to embody a black characteristic as the twins and any other bot in the film. Fact is, they're robots. Get off your high horse.

This comment is brought to you by a black man.

[Marvin]

oh I've said many a time's that optimus is black

but it takes him holding his piece/gun side ways when he shoots for people to jump on the fact

[Angry Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Crook

The association to african-americans isn't because of the illiteracy, it's the slang speak and behavior normally attributed to ghetto folk, whom are predominantly black. The robots just happened to not read (though this is arguable in context of the scene).

Seriously Crook !!!??? What, you having a boring day and just decided to be the match to light the powder keg?

Let me guess, you are also one of the thousands of 4 year olds who actually think this was a good movie too.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Angry Sentinel

Seriously Crook !!!??? What, you having a boring day and just decided to be the match to light the powder keg?

Let me guess, you are also one of the thousands of 4 year olds who actually think this was a good movie too.

No, I actually thought the movie was quite disappointing. But what does that have to do with anything? Do you want me to repeat the lines said by the twins? It's so obvious they are caricatures of the black gangster subculture. It's foolish to deny so.

[Angry Sentinel]

Don't back pedal. I could give a crap about the two characters and their lines... That intent is arguable... BUT, what you just said IS NOT!

Contrary to your small minded thought process, Ghetto fok is NOT a predominantly black characteristic.

[Da-Scribe]

He isn't saying it's a characteristic. He's saying that most people in the ghetto are black. And that such behavior is normally attributed to THEM, not black people as a whole. And he's right. If they had lines that like "You'll never catch me alive see?", then that'd be something derived from white gangsters. That's doesn't mean it reflects all whites, just a specific aspect of their culture. That also doesn't make them white. It's just a personality. The actual race is subjective and absolutely ridiculous because they're robots.

[DarKush]

Originally Posted by Mookiemoo

I'm not saying that she isn't or wasn't a quality actor - I'm saying that this character, in this film, is a piece of ****ing garbage.



I just have to ask - How many black characters is enough per show? How many shows do we need that have black leads? Like, you obviously feel that there's some kind of quota that needs to be met so I'd like for you to throw out a ball park.

Personally? I'd rather just not pay any attention whatsoever to the race of the characters in the movies, tv shows and comics I watch/read - Mostly because race could not possibly matter less to me. You really remind me of people who say "we need diversity in the workplace," How many people of each race do we need per workplace to be diverse?

I vote 5 Blacks, 5 Asians of whichever specific region and at LEAST one Polish person. Who's with me?!

I'm glad I remind you of people like that, because we do need diversity in the workplace. Are you saying we don't need diversity in our workplaces? I never said anything about a dreaded 'quota'. I just want more black actors/characters to have quality roles where they are three-dimensional characters, and not carciatures. And when black characters are on shows, movies, or in comics that they aren't just there for show but get some facetime and development as well.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Da-Scribe

He isn't saying it's a characteristic. He's saying that most people in the ghetto are black. And that such behavior is normally attributed to THEM, not black people as a whole. And he's right. If they had lines that like "You'll never catch me alive see?", then that'd be something derived from white gangsters. That's doesn't mean it reflects all whites, just a specific aspect of their culture. That also doesn't make them white. It's just a personality. The actual race is subjective and absolutely ridiculous because they're robots.

WOW. A person here actually reads and properly understands the context of words and terms? It's sad that I have to applaud such abilities, but apparently it's a rarity here. Thank you, good sir. More people should follow your lead.

[The Black Goo]

What I don't get is, people keep talking about black culture and what not, but the movie was made 2008-2009, which has NOTHING to do with black history. In this day in age "gangsta" talk can come from anyone, any age, any race.

And the twins never said they CAN'T read, they said they "don't read much."

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by Crook

The association to african-americans isn't because of the illiteracy, it's the slang speak and behavior normally attributed to ghetto folk, whom are predominantly black. The robots just happened to not read (though this is arguable in context of the scene).

tell that to all the white suburbia kids that eat up eminem and 50cent/lil wayne cds

if anything the twins were non black kids acting "black"

[Angry Sentinel]

I love when people try to explain what is and isn't offensive... It generally leads to a real big "You just don't get it moment".

I understand what is being stated, but allow me, an educated black man, to show you what is actually being stated whether unknowingly or not is WAY more insensitive and racist than what was done in the movie.

This is taken DIRECTLY out of the dictionary

1.a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
2. (formerly, in most European countries) a section of a city in which all Jews were required to live.
3. a section predominantly inhabited by Jews.
4. any mode of living, working, etc., that results from stereotyping or biased treatment: job ghettos for women; ghettos for the elderly.

Interesting that the dictionary seems to think that the Ghetto is predominantly populated by a different minority ethnic group than the one you both stated...

Now ask yourself, Why would this be relevant? Shouldn't the answer be simple. It seems that 'good' non-black folk in this country don't seem to find it offensive to label, characterize, emulate, and pigeon-hole other ethnic groups when even by their own dictionary the definition of the word DOES NOT do so.

I said it before, and I'll say it again... It is FAR more offensive to have someone telling me what so-called category applies to me (or how to feel about it for that matter) than someone putting that category on the screen for a form of entertainment. BELIEVE me, most black folks know when someone is intentionally trying to insult them.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Marvin

tell that to all the white suburbia kids that eat up eminem and 50cent/lil wayne cds

if anything the twins were non black kids acting "black"

I don't really see it as a "are they white robots, or black robots?" type of thing. As has been said, they're robots and thus have no race. It's a matter of what attributes they embody, which are generalized into subsets of white and black. Incredibly simplistic? Yes. But it is what it is.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Angry Sentinel

This is taken DIRECTLY out of the dictionary

1.a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
2. (formerly, in most European countries) a section of a city in which all Jews were required to live.
3. a section predominantly inhabited by Jews.
4. any mode of living, working, etc., that results from stereotyping or biased treatment: job ghettos for women; ghettos for the elderly.

Interesting that the dictionary seems to think that the Ghetto is predominantly populated by a different minority ethnic group than the one you both stated...

You do realize you're at this point arguing semantics? Go ahead and look up the word 'suburbs' in any dictionary, and I guarantee you will find a much different definition than the actual real-world usage of the term. Which is; a polished, quiet, plain, "white" neighborhood.

Contrasted with "the ghetto", which generally recalls imagery of black/latino poverty, strife, and violence within the inner-city projects.

I can't believe you brought it down to technical terms to find a malicious intent that was not at all present in my post. That's painfully ironic in the context of this entire discussion.

[Marvin]

is it because they were talking the way they were talking or is it because they were shown in a less then heroic/educated light

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Marvin

is it because they were talking the way they were talking or is it because they were shown in a less then heroic/educated light

This.

Isn't it obvious?

[Da-Scribe]

Originally Posted by Angry Sentinel

I love when people try to explain what is and isn't offensive... It generally leads to a real big "You just don't get it moment".

I understand what is being stated, but allow me, an educated black man, to show you what is actually being stated whether unknowingly or not is WAY more insensitive and racist than what was done in the movie.

This is taken DIRECTLY out of the dictionary

1.a section of a city, esp. a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.
2. (formerly, in most European countries) a section of a city in which all Jews were required to live.
3. a section predominantly inhabited by Jews.
4. any mode of living, working, etc., that results from stereotyping or biased treatment: job ghettos for women; ghettos for the elderly.

Interesting that the dictionary seems to think that the Ghetto is predominantly populated by a different minority ethnic group than the one you both stated...

Now ask yourself, Why would this be relevant? Shouldn't the answer be simple. It seems that 'good' non-black folk in this country don't seem to find it offensive to label, characterize, emulate, and pigeon-hole other ethnic groups when even by their own dictionary the definition of the word DOES NOT do so.

I said it before, and I'll say it again... It is FAR more offensive to have someone telling me what so-called category applies to me (or how to feel about it for that matter) than someone putting that category on the screen for a form of entertainment. BELIEVE me, most black folks know when someone is intentionally trying to insult them.

This isn't WWII, that definition is based on the origin of the word. It doesn't take the contemporary social significance of it into account. That'd be like taking the word "f**", explaining that it's a British cigarette and telling gays that it doesn't apply to them. You can't dodge the fact the ghettos are predominantly populated by blacks and hispanics. So allow me, an apparently lesser educated black man, to say damn your dictionary.

No one is being insensitive, just stating the obvious. What's most insulting is having it swept under the rug or blown out of proportion. It's obvious what Kenny and Wilson were going for with the characters, but that doesn't mean it's offensive. That's just what it is. They adapted a personality type derived from a certain group of people. They aren't trying to make generalizations about a race and they weren't just acting like goofs. It's best to just accept it for what it is and laugh. The key to ending racism isn't pretending like everyone's the same. It's accepting our differences, positive and negative, and learning to have a sense of humor about them.

[Angry Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Crook

You do realize you're at this point arguing semantics? Go ahead and look up the word 'suburbs' in any dictionary, and I guarantee you will find a much different definition than the actual real-world usage of the term. Which is; a polished, quiet, plain, "white" neighborhood.

Contrasted with "the ghetto", which generally recalls imagery of black/latino poverty, strife, and violence within the inner-city projects.

I can't believe you brought it down to technical terms to find a malicious intent that was not at all present in my post. That's painfully ironic in the context of this entire discussion.

Heh, sigh....

It is not my intent to find a malicious intent. I have watched your posts and wondered if it was malicious, but I can not prove it one way or the other, hence my usage of the word "unknowingly".

So let me put it to you like this.... WHO are the people that generally RECALL imagery of black/latino (I like how you added another ethnicity after only refering the term to black people initially) when they hear the word ghetto.

Who, non-black people, for the most part. Black folks, and other minority ethnicities would probably just reference the social and economic status of the people in question. In other words, they would not PRIMARILY think of just ONE ethnicity, rather the blend of people who suffer from strife, and violence typically found in empoverished (POOR) areas. On the contrary, it is the real-world usage (as you call it) that is QUITE offensive. If ghetto, foul-acting, illiterate, incoherent characters only bring to mind imagery of black people, wouldn't that be more of a racist concept. Not the moron who put it as a characterization on screen, WITHOUT color.

Actually, it is painfully ironic that you do not realize which incidence is MORE offensive. A movie which depicts two STUPID characters, or the person who constantly pins those characters depictions as solely bringing to mind imagery of ONE race.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by Crook

This.

Isn't it obvious?

if that truly is the case(and i believe it is)

then surely disney is in for some of the same with their next big animated feature being based on new orleans characters

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

but i doubt it will
(unless bay's name shows up in the credits)

[Da-Scribe]

Lol, that preview reminds me of my family back down south.

[Crook]

Originally Posted by Angry Sentinel

So let me put it to you like this.... WHO are the people that generally RECALL imagery of black/latino (I like how you added another ethnicity after only refering the term to black people initially) when they hear the word ghetto.

I added latinos because they are the second largest minority group in said "ghettos". I have not changed my position, blacks are the predominant group in those areas. It's a statistical fact. So much so that it is common knowledge.

As for who thinks of minorities when "ghetto" is referenced, let's try....anyone in the US. You cannot be serious in trying to rebuttal this, as if the word has somehow contained multiple meanings in common American language.

Who, non-black people, for the most part. Black folks, and other minority ethnicities would probably just reference the social and economic status of the people in question. In other words, they would not PRIMARILY think of just ONE ethnicity, rather the blend of people who suffer from strife, and violence typically found in empoverished (POOR) areas.

Actually, it is painfully ironic that you do not realize which incidence is MORE offensive. A movie which depicts two STUPID characters, or the person who constantly pins those characters depictions as solely bringing to mind imagery of ONE race.

Did you just completely ignore the five billion instances where I've stated terms such as "black" or "white" are generalized to describe a particular group or socioeconomical status? I would have thought you could properly infer what I was talking about. I'm more than aware that all races are capable of being placed within any criteria described as "black", "white", etc. Your problem is you're looking for things that aren't there.

I'm at least comforted that at least one poster (Da-Scribe) knows exactly what I'm talking about without twisting words and meanings.

[Angry Sentinel]

Originally Posted by Da-Scribe

This isn't WWII, that definition is based on the origin of the word. It doesn't take the contemporary social significance of it into account. That'd be like taking the word "f**", explaining that it's a British cigarette and telling gays that it doesn't apply to them. You can't dodge the fact the ghettos are predominantly populated by blacks and hispanics. So allow me, an apparently lesser educated black man, to say damn your dictionary.

First of all, you really don't want to trace the history of the word Ghetto as it applies to contemporary social settings because you would find that it still SHOULD not apply ONLY to black people. The fact that it does for a group of people (even young black folks) is distressing to say the least, but leads to my next point.

Second,I get what your saying. Now you must take the next step. You need to understand that it is far more racist, that someone would only think of black people from the reference of Ghetto (or even the characterization) than it was for Bay to use the characterization in entertainment.

This has, and STILL IS my biggest point.

No one is being insensitive, just stating the obvious. What's most insulting is having it swept under the rug or blown out of proportion. It's obvious what Kenny and Wilson were going for with the characters, but that doesn't mean it's offensive. That's just what it is. They adapted a personality type derived from a certain group of people. They aren't trying to make generalizations about a race and they weren't just acting like goofs. It's best to just accept it for what it is and laugh. The key to ending racism isn't pretending like everyone's the same. It's accepting our differences, positive and negative, and learning to have a sense of humor about them.

I agree with the beginning, but your keys to ending racism are a little... short. That would be a discussion for another time.

[Blackman]

Originally Posted by Marvin

if that truly is the case(and i believe it is)

then surely disney is in for some of the same with their next big animated feature being based on new orleans characters

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

but i doubt it will
(unless bay's name shows up in the credits)

not saying its racist but why did they have to base it on the south. It still looks like a good movie. But it would be cool if she was a princess of some African place. I mean Jasmine (from Aladdin) was the princess of some Arab kingdom

[The Black Goo]

The way I see it, there will always be racism, sexism and all kind of isms. There is no way around it unless we were A sexual beings of the same race.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I cant believe this debate is still going on, 3rd time seeing it I still didnt think think the Twins were racist, the full theater (including plenty of black people BTW) were laughing their heads off at them.

[craigdbfan]

Rumor has it the Twins will make a cameo appearance in "The Princess and the Frog" (Spectacular - Skids).

That should give Devin from CHUD more chances to further promote his gluttonous presence on Attack of the Show again to elaborate the only way Devin can on how ROTF irrnversably scarred his poor little eyes.