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Old 06-23-2009, 01:35 PM   #151
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I found this funny

http://movieblog.ugo.com/movies/is-t...rmers-2-racist
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Is Transformers 2 Racist?
Posted by Jordan Hoffman at 9:46AM | 1 Comment



One should expect explosions and cleavage in a Michael Bay film, but should one expect the perpetuation of racial stereotypes?

If you snoop around movie sites today, you’ll find references to Mudflap and Skids, twin Autobots from Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen who bear more than a passing resemblance to minstrel show depictions of African Americans. CHUD.com aptly dubbed them Little Black Sambots. The wider story is that Mudflap and Skids are just the tip of the insensitive iceberg in Bay’s newest film. Here is a list of what you can expect when you go to see the Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

Mudflap and Skidz - the aforementioned “from da hood” Autobots with gold teeth, poor grammar, the inability to read (or speak with inside voices) and, final sigh, actual simian features. The voice work (by Spongebob Squarepants’ Tom Kenny) is more of the Howard Stern/Amos & Andy style as opposed to the Chris Rock “daaaaaamn!” variety.

Old Chinese Man Eating Noodles - because an opening fight in Shanghai wouldn’t be complete without battling robots busting through a wall and disturbing a sage old man over his steaming iron rice bowl. He has no lines, but he mugs to the camera with a nice blend of fear and wisdom.

Secret Agent Schlep - John Turturro’s character from the first film is back, but he’s been run out of the spy game and has moved in with his mother in Jew York City. There he sells whitefish to angry old women (who, no doubt, asks for a bissel sable lox on the side.) “Leave me alone, I’ve got bagels to shmear!” he cries when Sam Witwicky (and the fate of the human race) dares to call him back into action.

Bucktoothed Angry Black Muslim - I don’t know what stereotype exactly was going on with this guy other than baffling. Turturro’s mother’s delicatessen is obviously only kosher-style. When a worker is moving a giant hog carcass, an “uppidty” meat slicer shouts out (from behind a wall of teeth) something to the tune of “don’t touch me with that pork!” (Surely, this man should find some other place of employ.)

The Wopticon - A supporting character in the film is a mini-decepticon RC vehicle portrayed as an Eye-talian stool pigeon. Did you know the natives of Cybertron had a fear of getting’ whacked? This li’l guy does.

Jetfire, Old Boy - In this iteration the Decepticon-turned-Autobot is a dusty old Anglo-Scots codger. Cheers to ILM for figuring out a way to turn metal into a beard and a cane, jeers for putting The Major from Fawlty Towers in the middle of an action film.

Das Torture Bot - When Sam Witwicky is pinned to a slab of concrete (because "Megatron wants what's in my mind!") a Herr Doktor Mengele type droid appears to do the drilling. Talk about OUCHwitz!

The French - The UK is clearly shown among the coalition of the willing (to keep Energon from Megatron, of course) but other than a shout out to a noble Jordanian helicopter, the rest of the world seems to be neutral in this worldwide struggle. The French particularly so. When Mr. and Mrs. Witwicky are seen on their Gaullic vacation, all we see are quick flashes of typical French behavior: annoying mimes and repulsive edible snails.

The Arab World - According to Michael Bay’s logic, the entire Arab World is nothing but sand, camels and pyramids. Also Aqaba, Petra and Giza are all within walking distance. (But, hey, you also have to take the Ben Franklin Bridge to get from New Jersey to New York in this film and there are mountains in Washington DC, but that’s another story.)

The Female Gender - Every single female in the world is young, slender, wearing very little clothing and is if not ready to copulate, at least wiggle lasciviously. Every single female in the film. Even the randy and lithe Mrs. Witwicky.

If one really wants to read into things, one can easily find a repudiation of the Obama administration. The only non-Robot bad guy is a pusillanimous, bespectled worm who thinks that a strong military showing is not the best policy (he is WEAK) and when he is forced to jump from an airplane he cries like a little girl.

Sam Witwicky’s roommate Leo is played by Ramon Rodgriguez who, unless I’m forgetting a stereotype, doesn’t do anything disgrace the Latino community. He kinda acts like a yutz and chases a lot of tail, but I’ll chalk that up to him being a lusty college freshman rather than some sexed-up Latin lover.

Indeed, one could surely chalk the whole thing up to, “hey, it’s a movie about robots and explosions” and “relax a little and STFU!” Or, one could argue that Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen will be watched and beloved by young and impressionable teens who, whether they know it or not, have their opinions in some way shaped by the media they consume. Either way, the evidence of racial stereotyping in the film is undeniable.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:36 PM   #152
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

my problem with the Twins is that I would rather have Hot Rod and Wheeljack in their place.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:37 PM   #153
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

And I will probably understand why a non hardcore G1 fan would dislike Transformers 2

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:38 PM   #154
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

Know what's really racist? Mayo. I mean think about it...it only comes in WHITE. Lots of white people eat it too....because it's white.


think about it.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:41 PM   #155
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

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...see this **** right here....

typical.


anyway Episode29 let it go. you're trying to explain calculus to someone who thinks algebra is all there is.


HAHA I love people that sit on the sidelines.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:41 PM   #156
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I'm not a hardcore G1 fan. I like G1 but I'm generally more a fan of the Beast Wars saga.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:44 PM   #157
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:46 PM   #158
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my problem with the Twins is that I would rather have Hot Rod and Wheeljack in their place.
Now this is an argument I can get with, where's hot rod and wheeljack or even cliffjumper and brawn.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:48 PM   #159
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I'm not a hardcore G1 fan. I like G1 but I'm generally more a fan of the Beast Wars saga.


Beast Wars ftw!

But it is racist because Optimus is a gorilla.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:48 PM   #160
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

That article beat me to the whole "Every other stereotype is in the movie as well" point I was going to make.

I have no idea why the Joe Biden calling Obama articulate bit is supposed to be racist. Did he follow it with "He's a credit to his race"?

Obama IS articulate. Far moreso than most politicians. It was intended as a compliment, and only people who read into it a ridiculous amount believed it to be even subtle racism.

I love Morgan Freeman. I have always loved Morgan Freeman.

Morgan Freeman gets offered limited roles because...

He has limited range.

This isn't an exhaustive list, but he can play a cop or an old soldier/government agent, or a mentor/mentor villain, or he can play a wise old man in some capacity. Because that's what he's capable of playing believeably now. It's more or less that simple.

This isn't a bad thing, because he's very GOOD at those roles.

But that's the reality of the situation. It's a shame it took so long for him to get his shot in some respects, because I suspect a younger Morgan Freeman would have had more range, and thus, more opportunities. Not that he hasn't had a fantastic career.

I would however, love to see him tackle Shakespheare at some point before he's done. Has he yet?

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What if the Transformers with Asian personalities had buck teeth, pronounced their "L"s and "V"s like "R"s and bragged that they "don't do much driving". How could these ugly stereotypes be defended. It's obviously racist if the stereotypes mock a race the way the twins do.
You forgot "smart, small in stature", etc. If that was the case, then I suspect people would recognize it for what it is: a play on a stereotype, and be about as amused as they would be for any other movie (read: tons) that uses that stereotype. And it wouldn't exactly be the first movie to use such an approach. Or the last.

Question: How are the Twins "mocking" a particular race in ROTF? What do they do or say that points to a particular race?

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People have this weird idea that racism only constitutes aggressively mean-spirited images and stereotypes, when this isn't usually the case.
Yes, Jar Jar, the twins, et al. are intended as "innocent fun", only there to entertain children, and not threatening or utilized as in-your-face for shock value. They are portrayed as "friendly stereotypes", which are also, in the end, hurtful and degrading.
Hurtful in degrading to who?

Pray tell, while his origins are obvious, who should have been "hurt" and degraded by Jar Jar Binks, save for everyone who saw the movies and had to put up with his presence?

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But so was Uncle Tom, Uncle Remus, Little Black Sambo and the crows from Dumbo. They were just fun-loving characters adored by white people and viewed, by white people, as light-hearted interpretations of black behaviour. Song of the South was a beloved Disney film for decades! Only in retrospect are they grossly offensive and out-dated.
Haven't seen the film yet, but I fail to see how presenting what has become a widespread REALITY of our culture should be offensive. Troubling, yes. Offensive, no.

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Just because these characters aren't screaming the N-word it doesn't mean the very use of them isn't a subtle instillment of racist values within mainstream society.
Wouldn't that suggest that the behavior itself is racist? How is that possible, when a large portion of the culture has embraced it as a good thing?

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This doesn't begin and end with black culture either. Look at Aladdin's interpretation of middle-eastern culture
White people with slight tans?

[quote]or Gremlins representation of the chinese (inspired by an outdated offensive caricature).

At this point, your argument has become absurd. GREMLINS representation is of an old Chinese wizard. Not "The Chinese". Never mind that GREMLINS also presents GOOD values in the context of their presentation of this character.

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Even Drag Me To Hell and Gran Torino are, theoretically at least, worth seriously pondering.
In what sense?

I agree with the rest of your statements. Sort of.

I wish we could get past this ridiciulous assumption that because Michael Bay used this stereotype that this is somehow his representaton of all black people or all rednecks, or what have you. That is an absurd assumption to make.

Again.

Which inherent element of the Twins is "racist"?

Racist requires more than "Hey, some races display this behavior". There has to be the idea that other races are better than a particular race, that one race is inferior, etc.

Is there some sort of racial discrimination in ROTF? No. As I understand it, the Twins get much of the screentime, and get to be heroes in the end.

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You ever see a racist white guy do an imitation of a black person? The imitation is filled with with ignorant ghetto speak and foolishness to mock blacks. If the twins also do this it would not be a stretch to consider it racist.
Uh...no.

That would like calling someone who actually speaks like this, not just imitating someone who does, racist against themselves.

Was Seth Green's character in CAN'T HARDLY WAIT racist? No. He was a
poser.

I keep hearing people say "The Twins speak like someone would if they were mocking blacks".

Really? All blacks. Because it seems to me that they're mocking, if they are indeed doing so, a particular subculture, period.

I dunno, are some people pissed because there's not a Black President Transformer? Or a peaceloving religious leader Transformer? Maybe we'll see that in the sequel, TRANSFORMERS: A SOCIAL AND POLITICAL HISTORY.

And Jazz never came off as particularly intelligent. He came off as hotheaded and bouncy.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #161
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I agree with The Guard in that it's the mocking of a subculture, not a race.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:51 PM   #162
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That is funny -- and also pretty true.

I did notice that all the girls in the college scenes are hotties wearing tank tops and short shorts. I'll bet the casting director had fun with that casting call.

I also said "WTF" to the buck-toothed dark-skinned guy in the deli. Those couldn't have been his real teeth, I don't think.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:52 PM   #163
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

Apparently Episode29 cannot see any movie because every movie is racist. Maybe he can watch the credits...nope, white man's name came first.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:54 PM   #164
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

http://bventertainment.go.com/tv/bue...c=transformers

Is Bay Racist?

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:54 PM   #165
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Beast Wars ftw!

But it is racist because Optimus is a gorilla.
Beast Wars was epic. I should buy the show.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:54 PM   #166
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I agree with The Guard in that it's the mocking of a subculture, not a race.
That is exactly correct. Last time I checked, no entire race has the same stereotypical traits across the entire spectrum.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:57 PM   #167
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

The Guard, the way they talk and act makes it glaringly obvious. Do you have points on this and GI JOE or something?

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #168
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

I don't think Bay's racist. I think he's like George Lucas where he's just unaware how truly bad it comes off and looks.

All the sodomy and humping and what not is just weird. I think Bay has some weird homo-erotic/homophobic obsession he's trying to work out.

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Old 06-23-2009, 01:59 PM   #169
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What makes it glaringly obvious that they are mocking the entire African American race?

SPECIFICS, please. If it's so blatantly obvious, it shouldn't be a problem to list a few specifics.

Do all black people act "ghetto and illiterate"?

No? Then it isn't, and cannot be, outright racism. Making fun of a particular subculture of blacks isn't racism. Implying that all blacks are that way would be, but I don't see that being the case here. These "Twins", assuming they are mocking, and not just a pathetic attempt on Bay's part to inject "coolness" and "attitude" into the film, seem to be mocking a BEHAVIOR and a LIFESTYLE choice, in a similar manner to movies that have mocked Nerds, Jocks, Gamers, Preps, Intellectuals, you name it, it's been mocked somewhere.

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:00 PM   #170
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

In this case...I think it came out great....but in George Lucas case....LOL

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:02 PM   #171
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What makes it glaringly obvious that they are mocking the entire African American race?

SPECIFICS, please. If it's so blatantly obvious, it shouldn't be a problem to list a few specifics.

Do all black people act "ghetto and illiterate"?

No? Then it isn't, and cannot be, outright racism. Making fun of a particular subculture of blacks isn't racism. Implying that all blacks are that way would be, but I don't see that being the case here. These "Twins", assuming they are mocking, and not just a pathetic attempt on Bay's part to inject "coolness" and "attitude" into the film, seem to be mocking a BEHAVIOR and a LIFESTYLE choice, the same movies mock Nerds, Jocks, Gamers, Preps, Intellectuals, you name it, it's been mocked somewhere.
Apparently there is a gene that makes a race talk "ghetto"

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:06 PM   #172
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What makes it glaringly obvious that they are mocking the entire African American race?

SPECIFICS, please.

Do all black people act "ghetto"?
They're a ****ing minstrel show act. They are characterized using popularized black stereotypes.

No not all black people talk ghetto. But do you think in the minstrel show days that all black people acted like that and like the people on Amos and Andy? No they ****ing didn't.

Quote:
No? Then it isn't, and cannot be, racism. Making fun of a particular subculture of blacks isn't racism. Implying that all blacks are that way is. These "Twins", assuming they are mocking, and not just a pathetic attempt on Bay's part to inject "coolness" and "attitude" into the film, seem to be mocking a BEHAVIOR and a LIFESTYLE choice, the same movies mock Nerds, Jocks, Gamers, Preps, Intellectuals, you name it, it's been mocked somewhere.
The problem is that the Twins go above and beyond just the whole ghetto behavior and lifestyle choice. Being stupid and illiterate is more than just a lifestyle choice. The facial features. And considering how Bay thought this would be something the kids would like, the Twins as characters already fail miserably.

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:08 PM   #173
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

So most of community you are referring to are illiterate and stupid?

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:10 PM   #174
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They're a ****ing minstrel show act. They are characterized using popularized black stereotypes.

No not all black people talk ghetto. But do you think in the minstrel show days that all black people acted like that and like the people on Amos and Andy? No they ****ing didn't.



The problem is that the Twins go above and beyond just the whole ghetto behavior and lifestyle choice. Being stupid and illiterate is more than just a lifestyle choice. The facial features. And considering how Bay thought this would be something the kids would like, the Twins as characters already fail miserably.
Oh I see, you live in California. You people are way to sensitive.

And by "you people" you know what I mean

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Old 06-23-2009, 02:14 PM   #175
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Default Re: The Twins: Racist?

Why are you so wise?

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