The Dark Knight Sequel Info Hunters

[Avengers-Report]

Catwoman just not seems like a villain that a series can end on. I think she would work fine in the trilogy, but they should have introduced her character (Selina Kyle) in the previous film to get people thinking about it.

[Avengers-Report]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Two-FAce=BadAss was being sarcastic and considering that TDK script revolved mostly around Dent's rise and fall, I really can't see the where the rush comments come from. The fact that he was introduced and died in one film doesn't mean he was shoehorned in.

He was not being sarcastic. Two-Face was rushed, Dent was not. Two-Face was on the screen and then died. His character should have been concluded after the hospital blew up and the Joker was caught, which would have left him as the main character for the third film.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

Catwoman just not seems like a villain that a series can end on. I think she would work fine in the trilogy, but they should have introduced her character (Selina Kyle) in the previous film to get people thinking about it.

But what is your reason for that? Why can't she be in a final film?

[Avengers-Report]

Idk, she raises too many questions. She is very intriguing, a very complex and questioning character. She makes Batman think. By the end of this next film, Batman will know what he wants, and imo there will not be enough time for him to make that design if he is dealing with Catwoman.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

He was not being sarcastic.

Seriously, look at his post again or ask him. He was clearly being sarcastic to someone's post. I think he can confirm it when he sees our conversation, anyway. He wasn't trying to make the same point as you.

Two-Face was rushed, Dent was not. Two-Face was on the screen and then died. His character should have been concluded after the hospital blew up and the Joker was caught, which would have left him as the main character for the third film.

I wouldn't have minded that, but I'm more than happy with what we got. He had a full arc as a character, both as Dent and as 2Face. There was nothing incomplete about him, so that didn't feel rushed to me.
I don't see how anything about him was rushed. Goyer and the Nolans worked TDK's script for 2 years and the final product clearly shows they had a plan with his character. You may not be happy with what we got, but that doesn't mean he was rushed.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

Idk, she raises too many questions. She is very intriguing, a very complex and questioning character. She makes Batman think. By the end of this next film, Batman will know what he wants, and imo there will not be enough time for him to make that design if he is dealing with Catwoman.

Before a make my counter-argument, what would be your choice of a main villain in B3?

[jmc]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

Idk, she raises too many questions. She is very intriguing, a very complex and questioning character. She makes Batman think. By the end of this next film, Batman will know what he wants, and imo there will not be enough time for him to make that design if he is dealing with Catwoman.

This makes no sense.

[hegele]

Is AirUpThere secretly Christopher Nolan? Catwoman is too complex and too interesting and not just the regular placeholder women are in Nolan movies, she can't be in it.

[Frankenmation]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

Idk, she raises too many questions..

[Micah12345]

Originally Posted by Frankenmation

ROFL, that's exactly what I thought of. Must have seen that movie over 50 times.

[WhiteShoulder]

Personally, I'm split down the middle on whether I want to see Catwoman in the film.

On one hand, I'm excited at the idea of seeing Nolan's take of the character and what they'll do with her personality and costume and such. She has masses of potential. But another part really doesn't want her around because, as mentioned, I have a nasty feeling she'll just be there as "romantic interest." As Rhiannon said a few post back:

Originally Posted by Rhiannon

I usually don't like female characters or romance in Batman movies, and I say this as a woman myself. Most of the previous female characters, Rachel Dawes included, have irritated me. They are present just to be Batman's romantic interest, and I find it a little offensive. Furthermore, Bruce tends to act out of character around the ladies in the films. I'd rather avoid scenes like the final encounter between Bruce and Rachel at the end of Batman Begins and just see Batman bash some skulls if it's all the same to you, Hollywood.

[Gianakin_]

I doubt Nolan will handle Catwoman as just a romantic interest.

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Two-FAce=BadAss was being sarcastic and considering that TDK script revolved mostly around Dent's rise and fall, I really can't see the where the rush comments come from. The fact that he was introduced and died in one film doesn't mean he was shoehorned in.

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

He was not being sarcastic. Two-Face was rushed, Dent was not. Two-Face was on the screen and then died. His character should have been concluded after the hospital blew up and the Joker was caught, which would have left him as the main character for the third film.

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Seriously, look at his post again or ask him. He was clearly being sarcastic to someone's post. I think he can confirm it when he sees our conversation, anyway. He wasn't trying to make the same point as you.

Sorry Giankin, but unless you're talking about my "Yeah, kinda like introducing a character like Harvey Dent" post, I was actually serious about my last post where I felt that Two-Face could've been done better in the Nolan films. Not your fault of course, my post before that had so much sarcasm in it it must have spilled into my next one, so I also apologise to AirUpThere for being so ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I wouldn't have minded that, but I'm more than happy with what we got. He had a full arc as a character, both as Dent and as 2Face. There was nothing incomplete about him, so that didn't feel rushed to me.
I don't see how anything about him was rushed. Goyer and the Nolans worked TDK's script for 2 years and the final product clearly shows they had a plan with his character. You may not be happy with what we got, but that doesn't mean he was rushed.

Oh don't get me wrong, the Two-Face parts are still my favourite parts of the film. I think Aaron Eckhart was truly the best actor in the film really. The Joker is a pretty static character, which is great, but as Harvey Eckhart manages to convey so many emotions and be so utterly believable as a man who could fall so far. Little bits like Harvey revealing that he truly doesn't want to hurt Gordon's kid but feels he must, as well as being disappointed when chance decides he won't kill himself are genius little moments that are far too rare in the comics.

But ultimately, while I adore TDK, and I love both Harvey and Two-Face in it, I feel the character could easily have sustained a third film, deserved a third film, and only with a third film could the psychological complexity of the character that holds so much depth and thematic qualities be fully analysed. It's ironic that for all his psychological themes Nolan hasn't really examined those qualities of the villains much. And while Two-Face is TDK is a wonderful modern version of the original Harvey Dent in the comics who didn't have split personality, I still long for a version in film that does and the themes that come with him.

But yeah, Catwoman, Riddler and the full weight of both the mob and policeforce are my hopefuls for TDK. The later two have already been in the previous films and work consistently as threats, while Riddler playing both sides to his own advantage would be wonderful. Catwoman as a wild card will not only be great as both an adversary and foil to Bruce, but also serves as a lighter mirror to Joker in some ways; both are wild cards who are underestimated and serve their own agenda, its just that Catwoman is of the antiheroic variety.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by Two-Face=Badass

Sorry Giankin, but unless you're talking about my "Yeah, kinda like introducing a character like Harvey Dent" post,

Actually, that's the post I was talking about.

But ultimately, while I adore TDK, and I love both Harvey and Two-Face in it, I feel the character could easily have sustained a third film, deserved a third film, and only with a third film could the psychological complexity of the character that holds so much depth and thematic qualities be fully analysed. It's ironic that for all his psychological themes Nolan hasn't really examined those qualities of the villains much. And while Two-Face is TDK is a wonderful modern version of the original Harvey Dent in the comics who didn't have split personality, I still long for a version in film that does and the themes that come with him.

I don't necessarily disagree with all that. My debate with AirUpThere is if he felt rushed, shoehorned.

[Green Ghoul]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I doubt Nolan will handle Catwoman as just a romantic interest.

Having chemistry between Batman and Catwoman in the 3rd film wouldn't feel proper, considering Rachel just died in the last film. Rachel wasn't just a love interest. She was Bruce's childhood friend and sweetheart. That's one of the reasons why I don't think Catwoman is right for the third film. They couldn't get away with Batman and Catwoman flirting around without being negligent of what happened in the first two films. I guess they could have Catwoman in the 3rd film, but not as a love interest. Where's the fun in that?

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Green Ghoul

Having chemistry between Batman and Catwoman in the 3rd film wouldn't feel proper, considering Rachel just died in the last film. Rachel wasn't just a love interest. She was Bruce's childhood friend and sweetheart. That's one of the reasons why I don't think Catwoman is right for the third film. They couldn't get away with Batman and Catwoman flirting around without being negligent of what happened in the first two films. I guess they could have Catwoman in the 3rd film, but not as a love interest. Where's the fun in that?

I disagree. Like with TDK, this film could take place 6 months or even more time down the line from its previous installment. I'm not saying Bruce would
get over" Rachel just like that, but certainly a major role Catwoman SHOULD play is in helping him open up more after all the tragedy he's experienced and help him move on, even if he won't forget the past.

[jmc]

^ So true, people are just assuming film 3 will pick up soon after film 2. If it's like a year or two down the track it's totally conceivable that Bruce will start to move on. And I've said this before, if there's one woman who's gonna remind him the least of Rachel it's Selina Kyle. Even though I've never cared much for the Rachel character one of the inadvertent (I assume Nolan didn't intend it) advantages she's brought is the natural path she laid for Catwoman's inclusion to the series. I mean you can easily see how smooth an addition that character would be .

[hatebox]

Originally Posted by hegele

Is AirUpThere secretly Christopher Nolan? Catwoman is too complex and too interesting and not just the regular placeholder women are in Nolan movies, she can't be in it.

I hear this time and again about Nolan but I don't buy it. The female antagonists in Memento and Inception were well realised, and actually having female villains that were genuinely menacing is a rarity.

[Gianakin_]

The thing with Rachel and Selina is like this:

Haven't you guys ever had a girlfriend that felt right for you, split up, thought you'd never find another one as good as her, but then someone comes and pushes all the right buttons the previous one hadn't or couldn't hit? Not saying the new one was perfect, but definitely happened to appeal to a side of you the ex couldn't.

That's the case here, too. Rachel was a decent girl who couldn't cope with Bruce being Batman. Selina is a masked... whatever (which is appealing to Bryce's 50%), but she's a criminal (the very thing he fights). She hits buttons Rachel wasn't able to, but still is far from suitable for a normal relationship. However, since Bruc eis geting lost inside that monster of his, even if he meets Catwoman 2 days after the events of TDK, he won't help being attracted to what she has to offer: understanding for his obsession with alter egos.

[hatebox]

As long as they establish that the events of Batman 3 will take place quite a while after TDK (which I assume they will), then the Rachel issue doesn't need to be a problem.

If I'm apprehensive about Catwoman, it's not for the lack of possibilities. It's that the Catwoman of Batman Returns is one of the few characters of the previous movies that is universally liked and praised. That's going to be a much harder role to live up to than Nicholson's Joker. It's not a deal breaker, but it's at the back of my mind.

[Gianakin_]

Agreed about BR's Catwoman.

[jmc]

Hard to live up to yes, but totally irrelevant as to whether Catwoman should be included into for film 3.

[jmc]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

The thing with Rachel and Selina is like this:

Haven't you guys ever had a girlfriend that felt right for you, split up, thought you'd never find another one as good as her, but then someone comes and pushes all the right buttons the previous one hadn't or couldn't hit? Not saying the new one was perfect, but definitely happened to appeal to a side of you the ex couldn't.

That's the case here, too. Rachel was a decent girl who couldn't cope with Bruce being Batman. Selina is a masked... whatever (which is appealing to Bryce's 50%), but she's a criminal (the very thing he fights). She hits buttons Rachel wasn't able to, but still is far from suitable for a normal relationship. However, since Bruce is geting lost inside that monster of his, even if he meets Catwoman 2 days after the events of TDK, he won't help being attracted to what she has to offer: understanding for his obsession with alter egos.

Bingo. Tell him what he's won...... Imagine Bruce having battles on 3 different fronts, The cops/mob on a physical level, The Riddler on an psychological/mental level and Catwoman on an emotional level. People keep wanting a more Bruce orientated story for film 3, well lets see how he copes with those 3 challenges at the same time.

[hatebox]

Originally Posted by jmc

Hard to live up to yes, but totally irrelevant as to whether Catwoman should be included into for film 3.

Until we know what the story is for the next film we really have no idea whether she should be included or not. At this point we're just riffing based on our appreciation of the character and the direction we'd like to see the story go in a manner that would accomodate her.

Who's to say Nolan isn't thinking 'actually Tim did Catwoman pretty well, I'm going to try another someone else...'?

(I don't think he is, but still - these decisions aren't made in a vacuum).

[jmc]

Originally Posted by hatebox

Until we know what the story is for the next film we really have no idea whether she should be included or not. At this point we're just riffing based on our appreciation of the character and the direction we'd like to see the story go in a manner that would accomodate her.

Who's to say Nolan isn't thinking 'actually Tim did Catwoman pretty well, I'm going to try another someone else...'?

(I don't think he is, but still - these decisions aren't made in a vacuum).

Let's just say then the foundation for her inclusion are a lot easier now that Rachel is dead. And something tells me Nolan isn't the type to worry about what the last guy did.