The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

View Poll Results: Can / should there be some kind of origin in the reboot?
Yes 81 69.23%
No 36 30.77%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-06-2010, 09:28 PM   #651
wattabrownsound
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

but the shorter time you spend- if you only show his origin during the opening credits or before them- doesn't that mean less time to show the bond between characters in Smallville?

wattabrownsound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 09:49 PM   #652
wattabrownsound
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

here's an argument for people deadset against showing the origin:

you don't want to see the origin story told again b/c you already know it but yet you buy dvds and can watch the same movie over and over and over even though you know the story.

wattabrownsound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 10:05 PM   #653
Mr. Earle
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,929
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I've always loved origin stories, because origin stories are all about shaping one's personality and finding one's way in life. Before i watch Superman clash wit Lex, i want to know what drives him and what drives Lex. Why is this guy doing what he is doing? Where does he draw the line? Lex says that he does what he does for the greater good, so why does he clash with Superman who wants the same thing? Did Clark's relationship with Lana affect his relationship with Lois? Does his humble upbringing in a village matter (Lois might make fun of him, but its Clark's humble character that won her over)? Etc.

For all that to be successfully explored, the origin movie will have to spend time in Smallville, on Clark's parents, school life, Lana, etc. Yes the origin has been told before, but it never had the passion and the clear action-effect narrative that Batman's origin had in Begins.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Smallville has also told a version of the origin, but not only is it bad, but it has stretched this origin story to the point that Clark is almost a middle aged man now and he is still finding his way. Some people dont even know that Smallville is about Superman. I kid you not. So **** Smallville.
If they use the Begins narrative and spread the origin in a number of flashbacks, the movie will be a lot more interesting. I never found myself bored during Begins, because the narrative wasnt linear, the pacing was pretty fast and exciting, there was quite a bit of action, and a lot of clever scenes that held my interest (like the jail scene or Bruce's final test in the league).

So instead of starting from the start and going all the way to the point that Clark becomes superman, they could start with him arriving at Metropolis and settling in. While we watch Clark getting a job at the Planet (as a low level reporter at first), saving his first cats and blowing out his first fires as Superman, various events could spark Clark's memory and give us flashbacks about past events in his life.


Last edited by Mr. Earle; 02-06-2010 at 11:47 PM.
Mr. Earle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 11:25 PM   #654
Doc Ock
There and Spidey Again
 
Doc Ock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma, US
Posts: 7,266
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

To be honest, I like Smallville more than the Superman comics because it follows the comics very loosely and creates something completely new and different. Who wants to hear the same old story over and over. Although I still think we need the origin in the film.

__________________
The Winter Soldier - 9/10 | The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - 7/10 | Days of Future Past - 9/10 | TMNT - ???? | Guardians of the Galaxy - ????
Doc Ock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 11:34 PM   #655
Mr. Earle
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,929
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I believe that if DC wants to establish a successful DC movieverse that keeps making movies non stop, they need to stay close to canon, not only because its beautiful, not only because of the fans, but because they can draw stories from it. So when i say "add something new while staying close to canon" i mean Ironman as opposed to Batman 89. Example:

- The Joker being the Wayne murderer is doing it wrong. It affects their relationship and ruins everything.
- Tony Stark making his identity public is doing it right. He has done it many times in the comics and when this arc is explored, he can easily make his identity secret with the bodyguard excuse. Favreau will explore this new (?) arc in IM2 without altering the story or straying too far. So Lex shouldnt be Kryptonian, Krypton mustn't survive, etc.

Now that we've got that covered, let me give you 3 ways (aside from the narrative techniques that i covered in my previous post) that the origin can be fresh and interesting.

1) Examining the same things from a different or more modern perspective.
Example in spoilers:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Superman's training.
In the movies Jor-El made him stay for 10 years in that fortress studying about how whales mate . What if this time the training is more active? I hope that Clark will be the one to choose his destiny, so when he announces to Jor-El that he wants to become a hero, Jor-El could organise a training regime aimed at honing his skills. In the comics Superman has a room in the Fortress where he fights robots, but he could also hone his skills by completing tasks around the world, or on other planets. Of course Jor-El will give him the usual lessons about everything, and especially morality, ethics and justice which we can hear while we watch the training scenes, like we were hearing Ras' lessons while watching the sword fight.
2) New scenes that we have never seen before.
Is there something that Superman hasnt saved on the big screen? Baby seals in the Arctic you say? Right, have him save baby seals from getting clubbed to death. Raise the Titanic from its tomb to put it in a museum (in All-Star Superman he kept it in his Fortress)? Great idea! And so on.

3) Ideas, characters and stories from the comics that the movies have never adapted.
Its similar to (2) but it has to do with the comics.
The introduction of new villains for example. Brainiac, Metallo, Mongul, Darkseid, etc have never been adapted before. Just imagine the action scenes that they can provide.

And what about that part of the origin that Clark goes to Africa as a reporter? I dont really like it, but its something we havent seen in the movies.

Or what about Krypto the superdog? You guys are going to roll your eyes, but i guarantee that girls will love him (we need them for the box office ) and if done right, you'll love him too. If you can believe that Kryptonians look like humans, then just suspend your disbelief a bit more and accept that they also have dogs like ours and you shall receive the awesomeness that is Krypto. He can just appear in a few scenes, and then stay and guard the farm like he does in the comics.
There is an amazing scene in All-Star Superman that Clark and Krypto play fetch in space and end up sitting on the moon and admiring the view from up there. Here:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Have you ever seen a scene so spectacular and lovely at the same time in any superhero movie we've had so far? I thought so.

Mr. Earle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 11:44 PM   #656
Mr. Earle
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,929
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Ock View Post
To be honest, I like Smallville more than the Superman comics because it follows the comics very loosely and creates something completely new and different. Who wants to hear the same old story over and over. Although I still think we need the origin in the film.
The comics have told the story and moved on.
Smallville wanted to elaborate on the pre-superman years of Clark and so it added Kryptonite mutants, drama, a teen Justice League, and a ton of other things.
But the thing is that Smallville took a period of a few years and made it last a decade. Its ridiculous how everything is fully formed by now, except Clark flying and wearing tights. I mean Clark has already had all the character development he'll have as Superman, he's hooked up with Lois, he's formed the JL, but he's still not Superman.

But besides that, the show is so bad that i'd rather watch the Hills or eat broken glass.

Mr. Earle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 12:30 AM   #657
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Ock View Post
A reboot film NEEDS to show a origin, but it doesn't have to take up alot of the movie.
totally, as i keep saying for me what is the point of rebooting the character if we are not getting any type of origin told in the first film of a reboot series. Be it krypton info, his smallville teen days, or his prior to coming to metropolis life. We need to have an origin so we can set up storylines, and characters and why this character is doing this over past incarnations of characters.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #658
wattabrownsound
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

so if the origin story is told in linear fashion how long should it be to set-up everything without making people wonder when are they going to get to superman?

also by the end of the movie clark has to have undergone a change. so if he ends up being superman and accepts/understands who he is by the middle of the movie what would be the ultimate transformation at the end? being accepted as the hero of metropolis?

wattabrownsound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 11:09 AM   #659
Frodo
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,278
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Whatever the case, if there is an origin meaning Krypton/Smallville it needs to be show from a different perspective then before. Not to say to change his origin, but it can't just be a rehash . Take some stuff from birthright and show him in Africa for example. Or as been stated before, flashbacks . My only issue , is that if you're gonna do it, do it because it furthers the overall story not because it's been done before. Personally I think the Lana stuff isn't crucial and can be left for a sequel, and his highschool days aren't essential . His relationship with Johnathan and Martha and how that shapes his world view is the key. Even the politics of Krypton aren't needed for the first film , but Jor El's teachings and knowledge is. What Clark takes from his worldwide quest is . Focus on what's crucial , not on stuff to that says, "Look fans , we put this in !" but doesn't serve the story . In terms of his backstory before coming to Metropolis, they should focus on Key moments.

Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 11:31 AM   #660
Mr. Earle
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,929
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Now that you mentioned Birthright, Krypton, its technology and clothing were very different and a lot more beautiful than Donner's version. It would be a nice change.

Mr. Earle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 10:49 PM   #661
wattabrownsound
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 390
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

another reason why people might be against showing the origin again:
-b/c Superman has the villains not Clark. so the whole time your showing the origin story Clark has nobody to fight. boring.

wattabrownsound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:24 AM   #662
Frodo
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,278
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I think both sides have valid arguements for and against, but in the end it really does depend on what the story for the first film is .

Frodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 02:29 AM   #663
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

you guys have some good points there. personally i still want a new origin and it wouldnt be to hard to tie things together, get villain into the mix and which ever way you do the story telling to get to him in costume and all.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:22 AM   #664
SinisterVulture
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 159
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Superman needs a reboot. Why? Today's movie audiance simply hasn't seen a Superman origin movie yet. The Donner films are over 30 years old! They are great, but old. Superman Returns was a strange thing... It was a sequal to a 30 years old movie??? It lacked identity and style.

It all comes down to a few very simple things.
- Write a super story
- Hire a top director
- Get an amazing cast

Take the basic Superman concept and start over. Take some risks, it can be done! Who would have thought the Batman franchise to be alive again after Joel Shumacher killed the franchise. Well, get some new and fresh people on the project and start over. Thus today, Batman kicked ass with two great films. Films with a own identity, an own style...

So.... Superman, show us where you come from!

SinisterVulture is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 06:02 AM   #665
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

hopefully they can find the guys who can bring the superman film the studio and majority of the fans want to see.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:17 AM   #666
Daybreak_st
Old-School Comic Cool
 
Daybreak_st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
I believe that if DC wants to establish a successful DC movieverse that keeps making movies non stop, they need to stay close to canon, not only because its beautiful, not only because of the fans, but because they can draw stories from it. So when i say "add something new while staying close to canon" i mean Ironman as opposed to Batman 89. Example:

- The Joker being the Wayne murderer is doing it wrong. It affects their relationship and ruins everything.
- Tony Stark making his identity public is doing it right. He has done it many times in the comics and when this arc is explored, he can easily make his identity secret with the bodyguard excuse. Favreau will explore this new (?) arc in IM2 without altering the story or straying too far. So Lex shouldnt be Kryptonian, Krypton mustn't survive, etc.

Now that we've got that covered, let me give you 3 ways (aside from the narrative techniques that i covered in my previous post) that the origin can be fresh and interesting.

1) Examining the same things from a different or more modern perspective.
Example in spoilers:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Superman's training.
In the movies Jor-El made him stay for 10 years in that fortress studying about how whales mate . What if this time the training is more active? I hope that Clark will be the one to choose his destiny, so when he announces to Jor-El that he wants to become a hero, Jor-El could organise a training regime aimed at honing his skills. In the comics Superman has a room in the Fortress where he fights robots, but he could also hone his skills by completing tasks around the world, or on other planets. Of course Jor-El will give him the usual lessons about everything, and especially morality, ethics and justice which we can hear while we watch the training scenes, like we were hearing Ras' lessons while watching the sword fight.
2) New scenes that we have never seen before.
Is there something that Superman hasnt saved on the big screen? Baby seals in the Arctic you say? Right, have him save baby seals from getting clubbed to death. Raise the Titanic from its tomb to put it in a museum (in All-Star Superman he kept it in his Fortress)? Great idea! And so on.

3) Ideas, characters and stories from the comics that the movies have never adapted.
Its similar to (2) but it has to do with the comics.
The introduction of new villains for example. Brainiac, Metallo, Mongul, Darkseid, etc have never been adapted before. Just imagine the action scenes that they can provide.

And what about that part of the origin that Clark goes to Africa as a reporter? I dont really like it, but its something we havent seen in the movies.

Or what about Krypto the superdog? You guys are going to roll your eyes, but i guarantee that girls will love him (we need them for the box office ) and if done right, you'll love him too. If you can believe that Kryptonians look like humans, then just suspend your disbelief a bit more and accept that they also have dogs like ours and you shall receive the awesomeness that is Krypto. He can just appear in a few scenes, and then stay and guard the farm like he does in the comics.
There is an amazing scene in All-Star Superman that Clark and Krypto play fetch in space and end up sitting on the moon and admiring the view from up there. Here:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Have you ever seen a scene so spectacular and lovely at the same time in any superhero movie we've had so far? I thought so.
Loved this post of yours! Does a great job illustrating what we haven't seen yet in the movies or on tv and how great it could be if done right. One i will say though, the way you described his training is exactly what's being done on smallville this season. i know you hate the show but you may have more in common with it that you know.

Daybreak_st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:23 AM   #667
Doc Ock
There and Spidey Again
 
Doc Ock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma, US
Posts: 7,266
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
The comics have told the story and moved on.
Smallville wanted to elaborate on the pre-superman years of Clark and so it added Kryptonite mutants, drama, a teen Justice League, and a ton of other things.
But the thing is that Smallville took a period of a few years and made it last a decade. Its ridiculous how everything is fully formed by now, except Clark flying and wearing tights. I mean Clark has already had all the character development he'll have as Superman, he's hooked up with Lois, he's formed the JL, but he's still not Superman.

But besides that, the show is so bad that i'd rather watch the Hills or eat broken glass.
Well different people, different opinions I suppose. It has grown into one of my favorite shows.


But It wouldn't be a good idea for a origin following the Smallville story of course

__________________
The Winter Soldier - 9/10 | The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - 7/10 | Days of Future Past - 9/10 | TMNT - ???? | Guardians of the Galaxy - ????
Doc Ock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 11:34 AM   #668
Mr. Earle
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,929
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabyreak_st View Post
Loved this post of yours! Does a great job illustrating what we haven't seen yet in the movies or on tv and how great it could be if done right. One i will say though, the way you described his training is exactly what's being done on smallville this season. i know you hate the show but you may have more in common with it that you know.
Thanks a lot!
So Smallville is showing Supes' training? Interesting...

Mr. Earle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:12 PM   #669
Daybreak_st
Old-School Comic Cool
 
Daybreak_st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

yeah, i was surprised too. I figured they'd leave it for a way to end the show, he goes to train, several years pass, he remerges as supes. But yeah the season started with him having begun his training for several weeks. They show it peridocially. One episode, i missed, supposedly had him gain the power to hear peoples thoughts, to better understand what motivates people then at the end he lost the power and had to use what he'd learned to figure out how to defeat the villain. So most of it takes place off screen while being hinted at (that's also why i'm assuming clark can fight now as in the season premire, handled himself pretty well against a trained assasin without his powers) and then you have the occassionally episode where his training ties into the story.

Daybreak_st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 01:06 PM   #670
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

actually daby the producers for sv has stated in their take it wont be yrs on yrs of training at one time like reeve movie did. His training has been the info he has learned from jorel, and all the trials he has gone through.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:47 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.