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View Poll Results: Can / should there be some kind of origin in the reboot?
Yes 81 69.23%
No 36 30.77%
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:50 PM   #101
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by bgshw44 View Post
i just dont want a linear origin. i love the structure of the jj abrahms script, would do something like that

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Old 08-23-2009, 08:59 PM   #102
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by ChickenScratch View Post
Why can't there just be a Superman story and get on with it? It doesn't all have to be retold. Let's just have the basic elements of Superman without all the continuity. Like a Fleischer cartoon, there's no need to question it, they just get on with it.
I agree. If anything, make it a montage during the opening credits ala The Incredible Hulk and Spider-man 2.

But when we start the film, just get on with it.

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Old 08-23-2009, 09:42 PM   #103
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by dru-zod2501 View Post
It's possible to have an origin and not have it step over anything really that came before

The opening sequence from Superman Returns was ok, they showed Krypton's destruction, but then instead of wasting time with images of space while the credits roll, fill that with images of the arrival on earth, a young Clark, and the suit.

Marvel's already gotten good at this, as evidenced by Spider-Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk, and to a lesser degree Hulk 1; they know how to condense backstory and present it in a way that still makes sense
But then we'd miss out on Clark discovering his powers for the first time, his decision to become Superman, and maybe even his first rescue. The best part about an origin story would be it would give the audience an opportunity to learn why Clark decided to become Superman.

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I agree. If anything, make it a montage during the opening credits ala The Incredible Hulk and Spider-man 2.

But when we start the film, just get on with it.
They can get on with it by starting with the action and exploring the origin through flashbacks.

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Old 08-23-2009, 09:57 PM   #104
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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But then we'd miss out on Clark discovering his powers for the first time, his decision to become Superman, and maybe even his first rescue. The best part about an origin story would be it would give the audience an opportunity to learn why Clark decided to become Superman.



They can get on with it by starting with the action and exploring the origin through flashbacks.
Do you think he'd remember what Krypton was like?

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 08-23-2009, 10:15 PM   #105
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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But then we'd miss out on Clark discovering his powers for the first time, his decision to become Superman, and maybe even his first rescue. The best part about an origin story would be it would give the audience an opportunity to learn why Clark decided to become Superman.
Depending on how it's done, such things can be conveyed in a montage.

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Old 08-24-2009, 12:09 AM   #106
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by RachelDawes View Post
But then we'd miss out on Clark discovering his powers for the first time, his decision to become Superman, and maybe even his first rescue. The best part about an origin story would be it would give the audience an opportunity to learn why Clark decided to become Superman.



They can get on with it by starting with the action and exploring the origin through flashbacks.
showing the discovery of his powers might take too much time since he didn't develop them all at once, and everyone knows why Clark becomes Superman, to serve the greater good. The only good that could come from a new origin would be to undo that ridiculous notion from the Donner films that Jor-El had somehow planned for Kal to become a superhero all along

Inserting Flashbacks in the movie is different from devoting a portion of the movie to the origin. If not the opening montage, then I would support brief flashes


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Old 08-24-2009, 12:30 AM   #107
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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As much as this will piss some people off, I do think that this is what this "I don't want an orgin" thing is all about with most posters.

They think that a new orgin will somehow overshadow Donners first Superman movie.
'They' probably think that a new Superman movie can't survive with out the Williams theme as well....so let's not have any music in the next Superman film.

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Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:43 AM   #108
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I dont mind seeing different origins for characters and all that i seen for superman himself, the george reeve series, chris reeve movies, lois and clark, STAS, and now smallville. And i still dont mind to see an origin again for a movie. Really if its a fresh new start for film series really the origin has to play a factor in the movie somewhere. Like i was saying the other day is how do you want the origins to be seen through the film.

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Old 08-24-2009, 01:47 AM   #109
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I just want to touch on the we all know SM origin. If Superman opens at say $100,000,000 do you really think that all 14,285,714 people know SM origin? That number of people is based on an average ticket price of $7. I'm sure most if not all of us on here could tell the highlights of SM origin with no problem. But the question is how many people who will go see a new SM movie will know nothing about SM at all? I've thought about the origin topic a lot because it bugs me that people say you don't need an origin story. I personaly agree that the new SM movie has to be different than the Donner SM movies, which means doing something different with the origin story. Why not start the movie in Smallville showing a boy and his dad playing ball and the boy hit a baseball and it shoots off across SV and maybe hit the windshield of a car. Then maybe move up to Clark in high school dating Lana and just highlight a few things then and explain things in more details as the movie goes along. And even add things to his origin in other films. you could even have the first movie show why Clark first starts sing the SM suit. Then jump to a point where Clark is already working for the Daily Planet and has been SM for at least a short period of time. there are really a lot of things that have to be done different for a new SM movie like a different version of Krypton and the fortress. I mean both Krypton and the fortress are pretty much the same in the Donner movies and Smallville so you have to make those twop things different or they will just be the same things being done the same way as before and not really be anything new to anybody other than people who know nothing about SM.

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Old 08-24-2009, 02:36 AM   #110
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by lespaul59 View Post
I just want to touch on the we all know SM origin. If Superman opens at say $100,000,000 do you really think that all 14,285,714 people know SM origin? ... But the question is how many people who will go see a new SM movie will know nothing about SM at all?
Superman is one of the most iconic figures on the planet. Even if Joe Average doesn't know the intimate details of his history, they know enough to be able to watch a film without spending 2 hours having their hand held throughout his birth and childhood.

I do think the film should acknowledge his origins - in a montage.

If Superman Begins were being made 5 years ago... say, if SR had been a reboot, I would have felt differently. But we have had so many comic films now that include origin stories, and they're all the same really, that I think audiences are starting to get sick of them.

For characters like Iron Man you probably needed to introduce him, because no one really knew who he was. But Superman is so well known that you can get away with a brief recap and then get on with the story!

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Old 08-24-2009, 02:46 AM   #111
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I do see that as a reason why folks dont want to see an origin and all that. But come on if this is an all new take on the character and it wont be using elements seen in like donner's take we need to see why things are all new and all different this go around.

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Old 08-24-2009, 04:37 AM   #112
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Do you really think that redoing the origins would make people understand that it's not a sequel to Reeve' series?
Please, there are people who still think TIH is a sequel to Hulk...
Stop this origins nonsense.
Would knowing Hitler's early life help us to accept the things he did? No!
Just tell a good story with excellent character development and let the dialogs explain the motivations.

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Old 08-24-2009, 06:21 AM   #113
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Originally Posted by Kal-El Fan View Post

Why does everyone assume that the origin is going to take 20-30 minutes? STM spent a lot of time on the pre-Superman stuff because the movie was written as a 3 act play and was 2.5 hours long! They had the time to tell it. Also, STM was just the first half of the Superman/Superman II "Mega Movie."
Actually, the origin in the Donner film took about an hour to get through krypton, and Smallville, and the fortress. About 1/2 the movie.


IMO, I don't want to see the 'background' story. I want to see a superman story.


Personally, I think a lot of people get caught up with the Krypton elements of the story. I wish Krypton would die, and that would be the end of it, other than superman. No villains from krypton, no machines, no technology. I don't want to see supes constantly dealing with the negative impacts of his heritage... then you end up in the same trap as "Smallville" (where everything must have some sort of kryptonian origin: ie. STUPID)

Any new superman movie should start and end with superman already in metropolis. Just get on with the 'Superman' story, and avoid telling the krypton/jor'el/smallville story

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Old 08-24-2009, 06:36 AM   #114
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Actually, the origin in the Donner film took about an hour to get through krypton, and Smallville, and the fortress. About 1/2 the movie.


IMO, I don't want to see the 'background' story. I want to see a superman story.


Personally, I think a lot of people get caught up with the Krypton elements of the story. I wish Krypton would die, and that would be the end of it, other than superman. No villains from krypton, no machines, no technology. I don't want to see supes constantly dealing with the negative impacts of his heritage... then you end up in the same trap as "Smallville" (where everything must have some sort of kryptonian origin: ie. STUPID)

Any new superman movie should start and end with superman already in metropolis. Just get on with the 'Superman' story, and avoid telling the krypton/jor'el/smallville story
Yes, yes, yes!

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Old 08-24-2009, 07:46 AM   #115
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Actually, the origin in the Donner film took about an hour to get through krypton, and Smallville, and the fortress. About 1/2 the movie.


IMO, I don't want to see the 'background' story. I want to see a superman story.


Personally, I think a lot of people get caught up with the Krypton elements of the story. I wish Krypton would die, and that would be the end of it, other than superman. No villains from krypton, no machines, no technology. I don't want to see supes constantly dealing with the negative impacts of his heritage... then you end up in the same trap as "Smallville" (where everything must have some sort of kryptonian origin: ie. STUPID)

Any new superman movie should start and end with superman already in metropolis. Just get on with the 'Superman' story, and avoid telling the krypton/jor'el/smallville story
Just for clarification, 20-30 minutes came from the current debates on how long the origin will take. I said STM spent a lot of time on the origin, and was never more specific than that. I am aware of the running time of various stages of the film, thank you. As I said, STM was a 3 act play/3 "mini-movies."

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:36 AM   #116
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Smallville is a must in a new origin. It's more important to Superman than Krypton, IMO.

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:44 AM   #117
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

^You're right. Krypton isn't as important as smallville because once again, people need to identify with clark not krypton. Really Braniac is the perfect villain in the first movie to explore krypton through flash backs and really open the mystery of it up.

Lets not get started on the Williams theme and that being used because people really can't let that one go even though it really belongs in the 70's. What makes me laugh is that donners series (even though he only directed one) wasn't even as popular as batmans series and when they did begins they scraped everything from it. Why can't that be done for superman.

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:50 AM   #118
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

They can do without the Williams theme, but even if the Batman series was more popular than the Donner series the Williams theme is much more well known than the Batman 89 score.

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:56 AM   #119
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Don't get me wrong, the williams theme is well known, but its not like Elfmans theme has gone away, they still use it. The Williams theme was so great that the animated series didnt bother with it, I don't remeber if lois and clark used it (I remember some people saying they didnt) and smallville doesnt even use it. If they used a new theme, no one is going to care except the few people on this message board.

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Old 08-24-2009, 09:57 AM   #120
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

I would be welling to bet that we'll at least hear hints of the williams theme.
Its like the jaws, star wars, or Indy theme.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:03 AM   #121
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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Don't get me wrong, the williams theme is well known, but its not like Elfmans theme has gone away, they still use it. The Williams theme was so great that the animated series didnt bother with it, I don't remeber if lois and clark used it (I remember some people saying they didnt) and smallville doesnt even use it. If they used a new theme, no one is going to care except the few people on this message board.
The difference being the Williams theme is more pop culture than the Batman 89 theme. It is used in commercials, other films, and television shows. The general public is more familiar with the Wililams theme. It doesn't mean they can't use a new theme, but I don't think you can really compare it to Elfman's Batman theme.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:06 AM   #122
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Yup. Even SV hints at it at times.
Also, no telling how many college bands play it during football games. I hear it all the time while watching games on TV.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:07 AM   #123
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Well, one of the Dark Knight's composer (can't remember which one) said that he was constantly asked about why doesn't he create a more Elfman-like Batman theme (to which he naturally replied "never"). So it's not like Elfman theme came and went just like that.

But I agree, new franchise, new Superman theme.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:17 AM   #124
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

maybe that's the problem with Superman on film: It's gotten too comfortable.

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:23 AM   #125
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Default Re: Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

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maybe that's the problem with Superman on film: It's gotten too comfortable.
To an extent I think you hit the nail on the head. IMO from what I read it seems like people think that what worked in 78' for STM is still somehow relevant for today. The movie is over 30 years old, I would venture to guess that most teenagers haven't even watched the movie and if they did, how could they not laugh at it with the round of superhero films we've gotten in the past decade.

I never watched it as a kid and thats probably why I don't have the attachment that most posters here have to it. I mean when I see comments like casting lois lane because such and such actress has a similarity to Kidder I really cannot believe it. At this point though it seems like SR was the end of that series and some director might have the balls to say, I respect STM but lets make it better.

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