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Old 02-17-2010, 12:38 PM   #101
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Also with this approach you have a more functional fortress. In the Reeves films you have a large fortress yet we only see one room with a console. Same with Smallville.

If it was a Kryptonian outpost you could potentially have a variety of artifacts both alien and taken from the time period when it was built on earth. The Library of Alexandria in Eygpt was one of the wonders of the ancient world. I'm thinking the fortress could easily top that with some of the collect artifacts the Kryptonian explorers brought in.

So aside from a completely new aesthetic, you have some faciniating artifacts that clark could examine or that could just serve as a nice backdrop while he's in the fortress.

As cool as the old fortress was in All-Star Superman, if he's just starting out it's going to be sparse. You'd have to have an establish superman to have all those trophies. My proposal kinda solves that, you could still use some of the artifacts fans would recognize like the kryptonian battle suit, but these things were brought there by kryptonians long ago.

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Old 02-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #102
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

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I like your thinking, this would all give a fresh take on the mythos without changing huge segments of the Superman lore

Thanks

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Old 02-17-2010, 01:02 PM   #103
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

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To have the extensive knowledge of earth and it's affect on a Kryptonian body then some Kryptonian scientists/explorers were there before.

I think it would be interesting if a few hundred years ago (or a few thousand) Kryptonian explorers set out to discover other habitable worlds. On each world they setup outpost to work from in remote locations so as not to interfere with native populations. The scientists were surprised when they landed on earth and the effects of the yellow sun. After years of exploring all the various off planet expeditions were recalled but the outposts remained intact and cloaked from detection. It's remained sealed for several thousand years.

Essentially the fortress is one of these outposts.

As one of Kryptons top scientist and scholar Jor-el is familiar with these outposts and places a key of sorts in Clark's ship that will unseal the fortress. It also has updated information on all things Kryptonian, so once Clark places it into the fortress everything is download and it updates the databanks so they included everything including his ships journey to earth and the planets final moments broadcast from Jor-el to the ship.

Also the superman suit is essentially an exploration type outfit Kryptonians used while on earth. They found that as they began testing the limits of their newfound abilities only clothing that was close to their skin remained intact. They developed the body suits as a sort of second skin and it inherited their invulnerability.

Also as far as motivation for someone like Brainaic, i don't think he was Kryptonian in nature but sought out the planets vast information, as it was one of the most technologically advanced civilizations ever known.

He once sought to absorb it's knowledge and destroy it as he'd done countless other world's only to discover this shining light in the universe was already destroyed. He's tried to find any trace of the Kryptonian outpost but b/c of the cloaking technology he can't locate them. He's sent out countless probes in search of anything Kryptonian. Eventually one probe lands on earth and finds Clark's ship, (Clark is a teenager at this point) and tries to remove the key (which will both lead it to the fortress and unlock its secrets). Clark has an altercation with the robot and destroys it, but recovers the key and begins his journey to discover his heritage. the robot is recovered by Lex Luthor, reverse engineered and eventually reactivated, it broadcasts its location to Brainiac's ship in space, thus leading Braininac to earth.

Not half bad.

Makes sense.

Meets Occam's Razor too.

It was not made of crystal or anything weird, but an outpost in the past made by Kryptonian explorers.

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Old 02-17-2010, 02:18 PM   #104
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Thanks. Actually some of this is in the current comics, not the outpost stuff but about ancient kryptonians being explorers, that's actually how Daxam was created, by kryptonians who went off world and stayed on the planet. They were able to mate with the native population, which eventually lead to the daxamites. It's in Superman Annual #14 -

http://ebook30.com/magazine/comics/1...annual-14.html

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...review&id=1326


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Old 02-17-2010, 02:25 PM   #105
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Here's a review with pics if you're interested:

http://comicboxcommentary.blogspot.c...annual-14.html

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Old 02-17-2010, 04:05 PM   #106
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

it would be an interesting take for the fortress how would u want it to look day?

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Old 02-17-2010, 04:56 PM   #107
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Not quite sure. I'd like to take some of the various versions from the comic, at least on how it looks internally. I like the version during the Reign of superman, i'd like to see a strong kryptonian influence. I'd like the outside to be minimal and blend into the environment.

Also when you get close to it you see kryptonian writing, that says "look within" or some such thing that means they need to use x-ray vision to see the entrance.

One thing i would like to see is after he's inside the fortress, and inserts the key, it allows him to "visit" krypton through full holographic immersion. So you see clark standing there then all of a sudden you see him on a virtual krypton. He's allowed to experience kryptons history through a first person perspective.

Also the fortress is not Jor-el. It's more of a giant database with all sorts of knowledge within, some tangible (such as artifacts) while the rest is within the computers database. There is a robot type assistant that clark may have to reactivate. Jor-el does have subroutine that gives clark a message from his mother and father and could possibly serve as the narator to clark's inquires.

It should all have a very specific asthetic that does draw from kryptons history in the comics and from good scifi. Not a crystal fortress.

Just something that is alien, epic, hi-tech, yet serves as the remains of a lost but vibrant beautiful society.

It should also reflect that research was done their since it was once an outpost.

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Old 02-17-2010, 05:01 PM   #108
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Also you'd see multiple rooms and get the sense that their is a lot more to the fortress. It's a place that deserves exploration.

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Old 02-17-2010, 07:05 PM   #109
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

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Not quite sure. I'd like to take some of the various versions from the comic, at least on how it looks internally. I like the version during the Reign of superman, i'd like to see a strong kryptonian influence. I'd like the outside to be minimal and blend into the environment.

Also when you get close to it you see kryptonian writing, that says "look within" or some such thing that means they need to use x-ray vision to see the entrance.

One thing i would like to see is after he's inside the fortress, and inserts the key, it allows him to "visit" krypton through full holographic immersion. So you see clark standing there then all of a sudden you see him on a virtual krypton. He's allowed to experience kryptons history through a first person perspective.

Also the fortress is not Jor-el. It's more of a giant database with all sorts of knowledge within, some tangible (such as artifacts) while the rest is within the computers database. There is a robot type assistant that clark may have to reactivate. Jor-el does have subroutine that gives clark a message from his mother and father and could possibly serve as the narator to clark's inquires.

It should all have a very specific asthetic that does draw from kryptons history in the comics and from good scifi. Not a crystal fortress.

Just something that is alien, epic, hi-tech, yet serves as the remains of a lost but vibrant beautiful society.

It should also reflect that research was done their since it was once an outpost.
Excellent ideas!!!
To be honest i never liked the concept of a whole Fortress coming out of a crystal, but a random Kryptonian outpost seems too impersonal to me. It should be personal, it should have his father's touch. Maybe some other origin for it?

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Old 02-17-2010, 09:23 PM   #110
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Gotta say i like the outpost idea, it gives it more justification to exist and in discovering it, it's like clark finally has a piece of his homeworld. Otherwise you have to explain how jorel not only was able to save his son's life but also compress the fortress into a tiny crystal. Or if he builds it himself you have to ask why? It serves no functioning purpose. If he wanted to get away he can simply fly anywhere, visit his parents, or chill out in his appartment. At least this way it's like he's discovered this amazing treasure. Narratively it allows him to learn about his home world and actually feel like he's there on krypton.

Have you ever been to the Museum of Natural History in New York? The place is huge and amazing. Full of history and knowledge. It would take forever to fully take in all that it offers. I want the fortress to have that same feeling. Lots of research was done while the kryptonians worked from there so it's fully of amazing artifacts both kryptonian and things taken from the ancient world. Maybe something from atlantis, or the amazons, or a host of other treasures lost to the ancient world.

I don't think jor-el has to be directly involved other than giving clark the key to accessing the location and updating all of the knowledge with everything from krypton up to the moment it exploded. Like i said a holographic jor-el would exist as a subroutine that allows clark to access kryptons history thru full holographic imersion. He can go to any time in kryptons history and view it as if he was there,with jorel by his side. Also the hologram would walk around the fortress as well, similar to Rommie (lexa doig's character) from Andromeda or the Doctor from Star Trek Voyager. Also since jor-el didn't create the place clark could also talk to some of the great minds of krypton by accessing their files.


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Old 02-17-2010, 09:24 PM   #111
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Also if his father had to be involved it be interesting if as a young man jor-el did come to earth perhaps on an unapproved mission and visited the fortress. Clark makes this discovery once he finds a specific artifact in the fortress and comes to realize his father also chose the kents for him to be with (maybe, just throwing it out there).

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Old 02-17-2010, 10:06 PM   #112
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I like your ideas. The Fortress could have been Jor-El's when he was secretly stationed on Earth for research. He knew about Earth and that's why he sent his son there.

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Old 02-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #113
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

sounds cool i wouldnt be against having "crystals" used as maybe a way to store info or how its created and all that. I would drop doing any crazy Key thing though to enter the place.

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Old 02-18-2010, 07:05 AM   #114
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

When i say key i'm just talking about a "device" that serves as a key. Similar to what was used on smallville, the idea not the execution. like there is some sort of device he uses to enter into, not an actual key.

Mr. Earle, thanks, yeah that would make sense. I like. I'm not the most inclined to use Jor-el and have him directly involved with the fortress, but what you mentioned is the best compromise.

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Old 02-18-2010, 07:06 AM   #115
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Also yeah, i don't mind the "sunstone" crystals being used in the comics now.

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Old 02-18-2010, 07:15 AM   #116
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea of the fortress being an outpost from millenia past.

Perhaps Kal-El himself could be the key? The fortress could scan the biology and DNA of anyone who approaches it before granting them entry. No human or other non-Kryptonian alien could ever enter without permission, but Kal-El would be recognised simply by his genetics and this would allow him entry.

This in turn would allow the inclusion of Kryptonian artifacts and perhaps the existence of the Eradicator, which in turn could allow you to pursue a storyline like the Death of Superman comics, which directly involved the Eradicator.

I agree that the fortress really needs a rehash of some sorts. Whilst the Donner version suited the film well (it really resembled Kryptonian architecture and design), it is in essence nothing but a huge empty crystal building with a single control panel. The Smallville and Superman Returns versions mimick this too. IMO the Fortress needs more 'personality', it needs to be somewhere that serves as a second home for Superman (or first home, depending on your perspective).

I've always thought that the Fortress needs to be hidden (e.g. underground) or rendered invisible by some means. It was grand in the 70s and 80s having this huge Crytal fortress deep in the Arctic where virtually no humans could reach it, but in this modern age where anyone can see it on Google earth, surely Superman's home would become a tourist mecca for the rich and resourceful?

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Old 02-18-2010, 07:21 AM   #117
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

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The more I think about it, the more I like this idea of the fortress being an outpost from millenia past.

Perhaps Kal-El himself could be the key? The fortress could scan the biology and DNA of anyone who approaches it before granting them entry. No human or other non-Kryptonian alien could ever enter without permission, but Kal-El would be recognised simply by his genetics and this would allow him entry.

This in turn would allow the inclusion of Kryptonian artifacts and perhaps the existence of the Eradicator, which in turn could allow you to pursue a storyline like the Death of Superman comics, which directly involved the Eradicator.

I agree that the fortress really needs a rehash of some sorts. Whilst the Donner version suited the film well (it really resembled Kryptonian architecture and design), it is in essence nothing but a huge empty crystal building with a single control panel. The Smallville and Superman Returns versions mimick this too. IMO the Fortress needs more 'personality', it needs to be somewhere that serves as a second home for Superman (or first home, depending on your perspective).

I've always thought that the Fortress needs to be hidden (e.g. underground) or rendered invisible by some means. It was grand in the 70s and 80s having this huge Crytal fortress deep in the Arctic where virtually no humans could reach it, but in this modern age where anyone can see it on Google earth, surely Superman's home would become a tourist mecca for the rich and resourceful?
Great ideas! I love the idea of clark himself being the key, that would work out nicely. I agree about it being hidden, whether that means underground or something else i don't know but i think it's important that no one notice it from the outside but the inside to be truly magnificent.

Gentlement, i've think we've go ourselves a collaboration

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Old 02-18-2010, 10:22 AM   #118
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

I think so too

Looks-wise, I think the Fortress would be very much function over form.

It has to be robust. Large enough to house whatever artifacts were stored in it, and maybe large enough to house living quarters/habitation for whatever number of Kryptionians used it while they were stationed on earth.

It has to have been built to last, hence strong materials, large walls which are impervious to our weather, maybe support beams and foundations extending hundreds of feet into the earth.

It has to be secure - it is called the Fortress after all. No windows, and certainly no large open doorways as in the Donner version. I envision a completely sealed building with no visible doorways, but maybe one which shimmers into view once Kryptionian DNA is analysed nearby. Alternatively, I like the idea that Kryptonians must use their X-ray vision to see the entry.

It should be hidden. The Kryptonians were visitors to this planet, and it's likely they would have kept their presence hidden from the natives so as not to garner attention.

The Fortress was designed as an outpost so I don't see the need for any amazing architecture or cosmetics, save maybe for Kryptonian symbols on the building itself. It's more realistic that it will have a very functional almost military look rather than be an icon of Kryptonian design.

I agree that we should move away from the Crystal version designed by Donner. Whilst the use of crystals in Kryptonian design gave them a very alien and unique appeal, it's more likely that a race thousands of years more advanced than us (and engaged in space travel) will be using some type of near indestructible metal or the like. Nano-technology should surely be second nature to them as well. By all means, give the crystals a nod and retain them for some unique elements such as data storage or birthing/matrix pods, but they should not form the fundamental design material used in all Kryptonian structures.

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Old 02-18-2010, 11:02 AM   #119
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Again loving the ideas. I would say i'd like to see whatever designs are used for structures on krypton to be carried over to the fortress' internal appearance but from a functional standpoint.

Also what do you guys think about the south pole vs the north pole? I just looked up antartica on wikipedia an found this fact interesting:


Quote:
Antarctica, on average, is the coldest, driest, and windiest continent, and has the highest average elevation of all the continents.[2] Antarctica is considered a desert, with annual precipitation of only 200 mm (8 inches) along the coast and far less inland.[3] There are no permanent human residents but anywhere from 1,000 to 5,000 people reside throughout the year at the research stations scattered across the continent. Only cold-adapted plants and animals survive there, including penguins, seals, nematodes, Tardigrades, mites, many types of algae and other microorganisms, and tundra vegetation.
You can read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

And if you've seen the disney movie 8 below you know how amazing the and desolute the area can look on film. Just a thought.


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Old 02-18-2010, 01:04 PM   #120
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

i would perfer the north pole myself, and i agree it should be hidden by some means with the way tech is today's world and all that. I agree i would love to see a more functioned use fos.

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Old 02-18-2010, 01:58 PM   #121
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Antarctica makes more sense since its a continent while the Arctic is basically a layer of ice over a deep ocean. But Antartica has many research facilities, explorers and what not.

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Old 02-18-2010, 02:49 PM   #122
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Yeah, also i finished reading that article and it said the Antartic doesn't get much sunlight, so there's that too. Hmm... I don't know.

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Old 02-19-2010, 12:08 AM   #123
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

well majority of the comics has had it on north pole right? then south pole or those few other locations right?

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Old 02-19-2010, 10:41 AM   #124
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

Yeah i think so, not sure of the exact location in the North Pole, guess it's not a big deal as long as it's well hidden. The cool thing about Antarctica (no pun intended) is that it's a huge continent, despite people doing research their (which also goes along with the idea of the kryptonian outpost) no permanent residence are there. So it would be easy for it to stay hidden. The lack of sunlight seems like a problem though.

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Old 02-19-2010, 10:53 AM   #125
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Default Re: The Fortress of Solitude

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Yeah i think so, not sure of the exact location in the North Pole, guess it's not a big deal as long as it's well hidden. The cool thing about Antarctica (no pun intended) is that it's a huge continent, despite people doing research their (which also goes along with the idea of the kryptonian outpost) no permanent residence are there. So it would be easy for it to stay hidden. The lack of sunlight seems like a problem though.
Its possible that somehow there is a technology that takes in and stores and even magnifies the light of our sun, and that the result of this is like high powered artificial yellow solar lighting on the inside.

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