Reboot Superman with The Legion?

[Webhead2006]

like i said before really anything could be great if its written well and marketed/promoted the right way. Sure it would be an interesting idea to go with. But we know wb has enough trouble as it is from the 90s and now post SR in what they want to do with the character. Let alone how they want to want it.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by The Batman

The thing is, they tried this with that "Legion of Superheroes" cartoon, which didnt last long...but i see what you're getting at here....have superman be to the legion what wolverine was in the x-men films....

Technically the reason the show ended was because the KIDS WB ended. James Tucker (the Producer) said since the Kids Wb was ending and the Dark Knight movie was coming out, they wanted a new Batman cartoon so that's why all the people who worked on the Legion went to Brave and The Bold.

Also, if there is any chance for a Legion movie to be made or work, they would have to use Superman villains like Cyborg Superman or metallo etc. The Legion cartoon and Batman Beyond were both good shows, but they didn't really have the classic villains that people expect. Both shows tried with Mr. Freeze and that Alexis Luthor girl, but I think both would work better as movies. For example BB:Return of The Joker.

But you're exactly right about X-Men comparison. The X-men movies succeded so when they didn't know what to do after The Last Stand, they gave Wolverine his own origin. I'm not saying to do exactly that because I want whatever Superman movie to be good, but use that and Star Trek as a blueprint.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Sorry ck1777 but it is a message board and debates are natural.

Second, superman is not like batman, which hasn't been done to death? Batmans been shoved down our collective throats for years so that point doesnt hold much water.

Thirdly, superman can be cool without going the legion root and smallville is obviously proof of that having lasted 9 seasons.

Oh I know debates are natural on message boards, but there is no denying these Superman boards are crazier than most other boards.

Second, Superman is not like Batman. For one Batman a long with James Bond are unbelievably cool. Also, both characters have had many different version but neither on had ever had an origin. So like Star trek also, when the last of those franchises movies were released and failed the only thing left to do was to make Origins for them.

Thirdly, Smallville is cool because he's not Superman yet!
But Smallvile doesn't have to worry about:
1)costume with underwear
2)Glasses for a disguise

Sadly even in the comics Superman isn't even doing great in sales. Both Superman and Batman are having events right now, and Batman like always is selling better. And the worst example is All Star Batman (which is universally panned) sold better than All-Star Superman (Which was Universally praised).

People will always see Superman as a boyscout, your grandfathers superhero, too perfect, too cheesy. So I'm just saying we need to understand the next Superman is going to be much different than what we've ever seen. I'm just throwing this Legion idea out there. I'm not saying it has to be this or anything.

I read a Neill Gaiman interview a while back where they asked him about Alan Moore and his hatred for movies and he said something like: I sort of agree with Alan and I know how Hollywood tends to butcher movies based on books, but that's why I try to work with Hollywood instead of just ignoring them.

Look, we all know how Hollywood is. We can say we want a new origin, or just a new superman movie that takes elements from every decade of the 70 year history. But if Hollywood insists on getting their drastic makeover of Superman that they've been wanting for almost 20 years, this Legion concept is a possible plan B. Again I'm not saying it has to be the Legion.

I'd rather us fans come up with a good concept that has never been done before than a movie studio. We all just have to think outside the box. I'm pretty confident we all as fans could come up with something better Nic Cage,suit in a can,giant spiders,kryptonian Lex......and whatever the hell else they've come up with. If people don't like the Legion, oh well it's not like up getting paid for it,it's cool. But I think if there is going to be a drastic change in Superman, we can atleast try to lend a hand.

[solidsnake86]

Oh i know your not saying it has to be the legion. Its an example which is welcome since there is really nothing to talk about. I just think your reasons for saying superman has to be completely different to be cool are wrong.

Spider-man isnt that cool, the main character is a nerd with a troubled life. The next person who deals with superman has to find something that people can relate to. Its not that hard, for kids "cool" as you use it could simply mean superman throwing some punches for once.

Your basically saying that for the next film to work they need to think outside the box, but I'm saying that if they havent even accomplished thinking inside the box properly yet why would they go to such drastic measures to change the character. A character that has been around for 70+ years. Your looking at comic book sales but frankly you could say every other comic book character needs to be re-done because all-star batman had better sales.

[The Guard]

Oh I know debates are natural on message boards, but there is no denying these Superman boards are crazier than most other boards.

They're actually pretty tame by compared to most other boards. Most people agree on things to a certain extent here. People don't agree with you on this idea because it's just not A, real finacially feasible, and B, it dilutes what most people want to see, which is Superman's story. Your concept would be SUPERMAN AND THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, not SUPERMAN, and it seems to me this would be an issue for people, especially die hard Superman fans. WB wants to reboot Superman, but while I suppose it could work on some level, they don't neccessarily want to make a movie with a bunch of other superheroes to do so.

[Fresh Prince]

Why not a Superboy movie then?

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Oh i know your not saying it has to be the legion. Its an example which is welcome since there is really nothing to talk about. I just think your reasons for saying superman has to be completely different to be cool are wrong.

Spider-man isnt that cool, the main character is a nerd with a troubled life. The next person who deals with superman has to find something that people can relate to. Its not that hard, for kids "cool" as you use it could simply mean superman throwing some punches for once.

Your basically saying that for the next film to work they need to think outside the box, but I'm saying that if they havent even accomplished thinking inside the box properly yet why would they go to such drastic measures to change the character. A character that has been around for 70+ years. Your looking at comic book sales but frankly you could say every other comic book character needs to be re-done because all-star batman had better sales.

For the record, I definitely DON"T think Superman should be cooler! I'm just saying that I don't know anyone who thinks Superman is cool. For example, a couple of months after Batman Begins, I was talking to a friend about the new Superman movie in 2006. In a room full of people not only did no one care, but some moron made fun of Superman because of his "tighty whities". I told him if you're going to make fun of him atleast get it right. Superman underwear is red not white! Out of nowhere, the conversation completely changed when someone started talking about a new comic movie with some guy in a creepy clown mask. After a while I finally realized he was talking about V for Vendetta. The problem was that when V came up everyone joined the conversation. My first thought was "ah these people are dumb, just wait until next year" but obviously that never happened.

1)So like I said I DON'T want Superman to be any cooler.
2)Spider-man Batman and X-men still outsell Superman in the comics.
3)Spider-man and Harry Potter both are still new to people. They both only have ONE version for each character.

I'm just tring to think like a Studio exec. If I was spending $200 million on a Superman movie, as much as I hate to say it, I'd maybe have to agree with WB and try something totally different. But not like Burtons or Mcgs versions.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by The Guard

They're actually pretty tame by compared to most other boards. Most people agree on things to a certain extent here. People don't agree with you on this idea because it's just not A, real finacially feasible, and B, it dilutes what most people want to see, which is Superman's story. Your concept would be SUPERMAN AND THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES, not SUPERMAN, and it seems to me this would be an issue for people, especially die hard Superman fans. WB wants to reboot Superman, but while I suppose it could work on some level, they don't neccessarily want to make a movie with a bunch of other superheroes to do so.

Yeah, see that's all I intended. The Legion is not my ideal movie but I think it could work so I just want to know if people would be open to the concept or just flat out hate it.

You've gotta admit though, these Superman boards can be pretty crazy! I mean everything usually ends up being how Superman Returns was the worst/greatest movie ever made.

Why exactly wouldn't it be financially feasible though?

[Webhead2006]

totally there is so many things they have to look into for next film, being how much they want to spend on it, to who to cast, to what type of story, etc..... stuff.

[Fresh Prince]

Originally Posted by ck1777

For the record, I definitely DON"T think Superman should be cooler! I'm just saying that I don't know anyone who thinks Superman is cool. For example, a couple of months after Batman Begins, I was talking to a friend about the new Superman movie in 2006. In a room full of people not only did no one care, but some moron made fun of Superman because of his "tighty whities". I told him if you're going to make fun of him atleast get it right. Superman underwear is red not white! Out of nowhere, the conversation completely changed when someone started talking about a new comic movie with some guy in a creepy clown mask. After a while I finally realized he was talking about V for Vendetta. The problem was that when V came up everyone joined the conversation. My first thought was "ah these people are dumb, just wait until next year" but obviously that never happened.

1)So like I said I DON'T want Superman to be any cooler.
2)Spider-man Batman and X-men still outsell Superman in the comics.
3)Spider-man and Harry Potter both are still new to people. They both only have ONE version for each character.

I'm just tring to think like a Studio exec. If I was spending $200 million on a Superman movie, as much as I hate to say it, I'd maybe have to agree with WB and try something totally different. But not like Burtons or Mcgs versions.

Well maybe the GA thinks Superman is boring cause they think he has no challenge since he is really strong.....Also his rouge gallery is not famous like lets say Batman and Spiderman or maybe X-Men.

They may think Batman and them have cooler rogue galleries then Superman do plus cooler costumes....And the GA did like Spiderman, Batman and X-Men flicks.....GA has not liked a Superman flick since the 80s.

So maybe thats why the fans think that way.......Superman Returns and last few seasons of Smallville do not help. SV is amazing this year but not alot are watching cause of previous seasons the crap they did.

[Webhead2006]

well that is all done with marketing/promoting the film. If we get a villain like brainic/metallo/mongul/darkseid in a film and the general movie folks can see how great it could be their butts will be in the seats. Sure batman/spider-man by most people/experts are considered to have the best rouges galleries. But superman still has a good bunch that can be great film characters.

[Fresh Prince]

True we just need someone to take the films seriosuly.......Again a Superboy flick please to kick start a new beginning for a Supes film franchise.

[Webhead2006]

totally we need to get folks on board like a nolan/goyer had for batman, jon F for ironman, etc.... who know and understand how the character is, and knows how to take the best stuff from the comics and make it a good film the comic readers will like, and then with the right marketing get the general movie goers to.

[solidsnake86]

Originally Posted by ck1777

For the record, I definitely DON"T think Superman should be cooler! I'm just saying that I don't know anyone who thinks Superman is cool. For example, a couple of months after Batman Begins, I was talking to a friend about the new Superman movie in 2006. In a room full of people not only did no one care, but some moron made fun of Superman because of his "tighty whities". I told him if you're going to make fun of him atleast get it right. Superman underwear is red not white! Out of nowhere, the conversation completely changed when someone started talking about a new comic movie with some guy in a creepy clown mask. After a while I finally realized he was talking about V for Vendetta. The problem was that when V came up everyone joined the conversation. My first thought was "ah these people are dumb, just wait until next year" but obviously that never happened.

1)So like I said I DON'T want Superman to be any cooler.
2)Spider-man Batman and X-men still outsell Superman in the comics.
3)Spider-man and Harry Potter both are still new to people. They both only have ONE version for each character.

I'm just tring to think like a Studio exec. If I was spending $200 million on a Superman movie, as much as I hate to say it, I'd maybe have to agree with WB and try something totally different. But not like Burtons or Mcgs versions.

Here's the problem I have with the "I know a guy who made fun of superman..." statements. I know a lot of people that make fun of batman as well, heck me and my friend who are batman fans make fun of the character constantly because we think he's the most ridiculous superhero around. Here's a guy which people think they can actually be like but in reality to master one of batmans 1,000 skills would take a life time.

Not to mention to this day plenty of people have superman tatoo's and t-shirts that probably arent even fans of the comics, and I know a lot of those. Listen CK sorry if I'm coming off as an @$$ I'm just debating. Batman was a laughing stalk after batman and robin, all it takes is one good film to put him back on the map. People would not be laughing at the guy if they saw him trade punches with doomsday on film. People's opinions of characters are a fickle thing, they crap on them one day, the next they are there biggest fans.

[Fresh Prince]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

totally we need to get folks on board like a nolan/goyer had for batman, jon F for ironman, etc.... who know and understand how the character is, and knows how to take the best stuff from the comics and make it a good film the comic readers will like, and then with the right marketing get the general movie goers to.

If we get a Superboy flick we have the Kyrpton and Smallville orgins.....Have cameo appearances of GL, Martian Manhunter, Flash, WW so they can get exposure in films.......And have Intergang be the main villian(s).

[Fresh Prince]

Yeah after Schumaker flicks and 60s tv show know fans ****ted on Batman.........And no one can master Batman's 1000 moves. For a human he the ultimate human.

[Showtime]

There is not going to be a superboy flick. Right now WB can't even use the Krypton origins unless they pay.

[Webhead2006]

well hopefully once the whole lawsuit stuff gets settled their can be reasonable pay ammounts to use all aspects of the character. As i said it would suck to do a reboot/any future film and not being able to use those stuff at all, since we loose out on things.

[The Guard]

Why exactly wouldn't it be financially feasible though?

Future sets...super power effects of many various kinds...big action, many characters flying...dozens of legionnaires. It'd cost a ridiculous amount of money.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by solidsnake86

Here's the problem I have with the "I know a guy who made fun of superman..." statements. I know a lot of people that make fun of batman as well, heck me and my friend who are batman fans make fun of the character constantly because we think he's the most ridiculous superhero around. Here's a guy which people think they can actually be like but in reality to master one of batmans 1,000 skills would take a life time.

Not to mention to this day plenty of people have superman tatoo's and t-shirts that probably arent even fans of the comics, and I know a lot of those. Listen CK sorry if I'm coming off as an @$$ I'm just debating. Batman was a laughing stalk after batman and robin, all it takes is one good film to put him back on the map. People would not be laughing at the guy if they saw him trade punches with doomsday on film. People's opinions of characters are a fickle thing, they crap on them one day, the next they are there biggest fans.

The thing is, most of the stuff people make fun of Batman for are left out of the movies. Underwear,robin,pretty much anything from the Adam West show etc. If you took out most of the stuff Superman is made fun of, like underwear,glasses for a disguise,boyscout,too perfect etc. there would be nothing left. Even his profession (newspaper reporter) is dated, hell it's almost dead!

Sorry I didn't want to be that guy with the "I heard from someone speach" because most of the time I think people make up their stories. But that guy really did annoy the hell out of me with the "tighty whiteys" joke. I mean if you're going to make fun of my favorite character atleast make sure you got the right color! Sadly I have a couple more "I don't like Superman stories"
from kids actually, but like I said I don't wanna be that annoying guy.

[Webhead2006]

show dont they already have to pay the families for lois/clark/superman part too? though hopefully once every does get settled if they ever do the families wont throw out some huge ass figures wb would say no way too. Cause it would be dispointing to not have various elements to be used as i said it would suck not having all stuff open to use.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by The Guard

Future sets...super power effects of many various kinds...big action, many characters flying...dozens of legionnaires. It'd cost a ridiculous amount of money.

The powers would definitley cost alot, but I would never do a dozen or more Legionairres. The most I would do is 6 or 7 members. And as far as sets go, since it's in the future there would be alot more Cgi needed than most movies. So it would be kind of like 300 meets Minority Report. It's still pretty damn expensive, but I think they could make 1 hour and 50 minute movie with 150- 160 million dollars. And since it would start off in Smallville with no Kypton, that saves a lot of money on Cgi and it wouldn't get in the way of the lawsuits.

[ck1777]

Originally Posted by Webhead2006

show dont they already have to pay the families for lois/clark/superman part too? though hopefully once every does get settled if they ever do the families wont throw out some huge ass figures wb would say no way too. Cause it would be dispointing to not have various elements to be used as i said it would suck not having all stuff open to use.

I was actually going to bring up the lawsuit in my first post, but since it's so confusing I didn't. But now that someone else brought it up... If you did start off with a legion movie first you wouldn't need krypton,Lois,Lex,or the Daily Planet. And if the lawsuit prevents them from using the name Clark, they could always just call Kal-el. Unless they're not allowed to use that either. Like I said this lawsuit is confusing as hell!

[Webhead2006]

well the families also now own parts of origins stuff including planet krypton/its desctruction, and i believe most incarnations of jorel/lara names, so kalel is probably a part of that i think on top of the other things they own which is superman name/1930s powers?/lois and clark names-being reporters. Though yea all of the who has what and what this all means is so dam confusing and is a total mess. But if the lawsuits do get settled sooner or later hopefully things can be worked out between wb/dc and the families so wb-dc can continue to use all elements fully intact. I am sure most fans dont want to see a half of superman character when we could have the whole kitchen kadoole.

[The Guard]

The powers would definitley cost alot, but I would never do a dozen or more Legionairres. The most I would do is 6 or 7 members. And as far as sets go, since it's in the future there would be alot more Cgi needed than most movies. So it would be kind of like 300 meets Minority Report. It's still pretty damn expensive, but I think they could make 1 hour and 50 minute movie with 150- 160 million dollars. And since it would start off in Smallville with no Kypton, that saves a lot of money on Cgi and it wouldn't get in the way of the lawsuits.

SUPERMAN RETURNS had one flying man, some large sets that can be compared to the kinds of sprawling, futuristic sets we're talking about, Braniac's ship, etc, etc, and decent sized action. It cost what, $200 million?

I think $150-160 million for a movie with 7, 8, 9 flying people with various superpowers, one of whom is Superman (who has multiple powers and has to do several feats), some which are very visual, and any kind of big action is wishful thinking at best.