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Old 11-05-2009, 02:04 AM   #26
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Post Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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Originally Posted by danoyse View Post
Which I seem to recall an entire ComicCon audience cheering wildly for.

I watched it last night (with one eye on the World Series and the other semi-watching the movie on my laptop)...my biggest problem with it is that it had absolutely no depth. Great start - loved the brothers thing, loved the Team X scenes, loved the scenes with the Hudsons...but the minute it looked like it was settling into a decent story they were on to the next thing. They didn't even properly explain why he was called Logan.

Wolverine always struggles with keeping the animal thing in check and not hurting innocents...but he loves killing bad guys and we needed more of that.

Like X3, the movie was too bloody short and wasn't given time to devote to a better story.

In everything I've read about Gavin Hood, Hugh wanted him after seeing his work in Tsotsi, which was an amazing character-driven film. I've loved some of the things he's said about the character, he seemed excited to do it, and I wish they'd just trusted him with the movie more.
They also gave a standing ovation at the trailer for "The Crow: Wicked Prayer" too.

Fact is people at the Comic Cons will cheer any piece of footage honestly.

I think it's time for the story and the character to get back to the basics on what made him such a unique, complex, and realistic character. Not saying that a reboot needs to happen.

But for the sequel I say explore Logan's animal side and have him be more vicious due to him having no memories of who he is or where he came from.

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Old 11-05-2009, 02:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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Which I seem to recall an entire ComicCon audience cheering wildly for.

I watched it last night (with one eye on the World Series and the other semi-watching the movie on my laptop)...my biggest problem with it is that it had absolutely no depth.
I agree it had no depth. Major problem. No themes, no developed ideas, just a story of Logan's past. Since we got strong hints of that past in X2, then the prequel needed to have a lot more purpose to it.

Two themes should have been developed.

1) Man vs animal. We saw this externally as Wolverine v Sabretooth, but not internally in Wolverine. He never was the animal. A friend of mine asked why he was even called Wolverine and, aside from the story Kayla told, there was no reason.

2) War and its effects. This could have been a relevant way to link to modern conflicts (Afghanistan) where war is seen by many as fruitless loss of life. Wolverine could question the nature of war - the wars he fought in, and the war Stryker was fighting against mutants.

Sadly, neither was developed. So the critics savaged it, because it offered nothing thought-provoking. Even the much-reviled X3 offered interesting ideas about changing what you are, difference, acceptance, etc.

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Great start - loved the brothers thing, loved the Team X scenes, loved the scenes with the Hudsons...but the minute it looked like it was settling into a decent story they were on to the next thing. They didn't even properly explain why he was called Logan.
Conversely, i found the beginning to be 'bitty'. I wasn't convinced by the kid playing young Logan, and i found it all hurried along into the wars sequence. I'd rather have seen Logan and Victor living as feral children in the forest, and seen Logan as an animal, maybe even encountering an actual wolverine.

The Team X scenes sadly did not show Wolverine doing anything useful at all.

I also liked the Hudsons. They were the moral compass of the story and although it could be seen as a shoehorned way to get Wolverine his bike and jacket, it worked from a human perspective.


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In everything I've read about Gavin Hood, Hugh wanted him after seeing his work in Tsotsi, which was an amazing character-driven film. I've loved some of the things he's said about the character, he seemed excited to do it, and I wish they'd just trusted him with the movie more.
I think Hood was perhaps a little out of his depth on a movie of this scale with big action stuff but i don't think he got chance to stamp his mark on it. You only have to watch the Blu-ray extras to work out that he was just one of many people who were 'directing' this film! Second-unit directors shot quite a bit of it, Richard Donner 'godfathered' the production, and Hood was sometimes 'brought in' (the actual words used) to add 'emotional beats' to the story.

I thought the film worked best when Wolverine got to the island. We then saw emotion and drama. Kayla's tears over her betrayal and her pleas over her imprisoned sister, the battle atop the tower (very well done, i thought, loved the rotating eye-beams that sliced through the structure), Kayla's tragic death especially Wolverine not knowing who she was. I felt that was good stuff that flowed well, as opposed to the darting about earlier in the film.

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Old 11-06-2009, 09:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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They also gave a standing ovation at the trailer for "The Crow: Wicked Prayer" too.

Fact is people at the Comic Cons will cheer any piece of footage honestly.

I think it's time for the story and the character to get back to the basics on what made him such a unique, complex, and realistic character. Not saying that a reboot needs to happen.

But for the sequel I say explore Logan's animal side and have him be more vicious due to him having no memories of who he is or where he came from.
Exactly...which is why they film those kinds of scenes. The crowd goes wild, the response gets reported all over the entertainment sites, and creates good buzz for the regular moviegoing public who wants to show up on opening night to watch things explode.

Did the movie need it? No, but it's not unexpected in the usual summer movie fare, so I don't have an issue with it.

Definitely agree the next movie needs to be darker and they need to let Wolverine go nuts. He doesn't know who he is, at the start of X1 it looks like he's still trying to keep that side of him in check...it should be even worse at the time I'm assuming this movie is going to take place.

And Hugh can damn well do it. That play I just saw him in was the darkest role I've ever seen him play and he was terrific.

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Old 11-07-2009, 04:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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Exactly...which is why they film those kinds of scenes. The crowd goes wild, the response gets reported all over the entertainment sites, and creates good buzz for the regular moviegoing public who wants to show up on opening night to watch things explode.

Did the movie need it? No, but it's not unexpected in the usual summer movie fare, so I don't have an issue with it.
There is no problem as such with cheesy crowd-pleasing scenes if the movie also offers deep, meaningful stuff. In this case, it didn't. Also, I would question if many top-notch filmmakers would include cheesy stuff that is there just to be cool...


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Definitely agree the next movie needs to be darker and they need to let Wolverine go nuts. He doesn't know who he is, at the start of X1 it looks like he's still trying to keep that side of him in check...it should be even worse at the time I'm assuming this movie is going to take place.

And Hugh can damn well do it. That play I just saw him in was the darkest role I've ever seen him play and he was terrific.
Hugh seemed more obsessed with protein shakes, devouring chicken salads in between takes on set and pumping up his muscle mass.

Wolverine is about more than looking good in a sleeveless top.

And that is obvious when you look at Sabretooth's performance (Liev DID do a lot of working out but the bulk of his performance was based on acting, not on showing off muscles), and also when you look at Wolverine in X1 where he was not nearly as muscular but still came across as masculine and moody.

Hugh needs to go beyond the superficial stuff with this character. Less time worrying about bicep size at the gym, more time studying the character, reading the comics and watching some footage of wild animals (including actual wolverines) and feral children.

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Old 11-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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and also when you look at Wolverine in X1 where he was not nearly as muscular but still came across as masculine and moody.
That's mainly because he was cast late and didn't have the same workout time - it's talked about on the X1 commentary track. They mentioned the cage match scene was filmed late so he could get the workout time in, and Singer also mentions (because X2 was being filmed at the time they recorded the commentary) a few times how good he was looking for the 2nd movie.

Australia was filmed just before Wolverine (in fact Wolverine was delayed because of it), and he started that workout routine then. It just continued into this one. I didn't think Hugh looking buffed up was a detriment to the film. He did it in X2 and people raved it about it - when he didn't look as muscular in X3 (which was filmed after The Fountain and the year he'd spent on Broadway), people complained about it.

The biggest problem with Wolverine was that it had a messy script and a crap studio behind it. If the movie had been better, this would be a non-issue.

Performance-wise, I thought Hugh was fine and Liev was the best addition they've made to the series since Alan Cumming and Kelsey Grammer. They just didn't have enough to work with. I wanted it to be longer, darker, more violent with a stronger script.

And I do think they need a director who understands the material better - if they can get someone who can stand up the studio, shake things up a bit (Hugh included)...they can get it right. It's like they have all the tools, they just don't have anyone running the place right.

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Old 11-08-2009, 11:24 AM   #31
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

I too think Hugh got caught up in the superficial things of Wolverine. The muscle bound bad ass. The animal.

I don't think he actually gets or doesn't want to focus on that this is a character is a guy who can't die, but can still feel all the pain, both phsyical and mental, of a normal man.

Just think, "dying" countless amounts of times, going through that pain over and over again with no rest at the end as you might say, seeing loved ones come and go...that would drive a man completely ****ing nuts and unstably violent. That is what Wolverine from the comics is, for me. And we got NONE of that in the movie.

As I said, Hugh doesn't seem to get that or doesn't want to focus on it. I've never heard him speak about these things, and he SHOULD be, because those are the things that make Wolverine Wolverine.

Obviously it's not all Hugh's fault. The studio must of had they say, wanting to water him down. But if Hugh is so passionate about the character, he should of stood his ground. And let's face it, the studio needs Hugh more than he needs them, so if he did really stand his ground, the studio would of folded.

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Old 11-08-2009, 12:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

I think he gets it (look at how well he played it in X1 and X2), they just don't give him enough to really get to the heart of it. That shot in X2 where he's running down that hall, escaping Weapon X - that was the Weapon X I read, that was what I wanted to see more of in this film. That was the most disappointing part for me.

There were a lot of stories going around that the studio didn't want dark a film, and obviously in a PG-13 they're not going to go full out with some of the more graphic stuff. TDK is a great example of a PG-13 that pushed the limits, but Wolverine was already filming when that was released and it was too late at that point for them to change what they were doing.

I would have preferred that they'd left the other ending on X3 - the one that had Logan back at the bar in Canada - and just gone to Japan for the spinoff, rather than have the watered-down Weapon X story.

Most of the reviews I read said the same thing - Hugh was fine, the script was a mess. I think if they'd come up with something on a level with the stuff they were doing when Singer's team was still on board, we'd have a better movie. I love Hugh, but I haven't been as impressed as the stuff he's done as a producer so far (I still want the 90 minutes of my life I spent watching Deception back). If someone comes in who gets the character and shakes things up for this sequel, I'm going to be happy.

Hugh is definitely a really cool guy - I saw him 2 weeks ago heading into the theater to do his play, and he'd stopped to sign some autographs, and of course some nitwit walking by had to yell "WOLVERINE!!!!." I've seen enough actors doing theater who get annoyed as hell when that kind of thing happens, Hugh just gave a big smile at the guy and had a laugh about it (which I enjoyed even more because Hugh looked right at me before he found the guy), and it definitely seemed genuine. Just in those few minutes I could see that whole nice guy rep everyone is always talking about.

And in a completely unrelated note - Hugh and Daniel Craig have been doing auctions after their play every night for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS, and the big auction item are the undershirts they wear in the show. I haven't seen the auction, but I hear they've both been 'modeling' the shirts (doing muscle flexes, etc) before they start auctioning them off.

They literally gotten thousands for the shirts - last night I heard they raised $22,000.

So if looking good in an undershirt is helping people in need, I'm all for it.

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Old 04-30-2010, 11:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

im confused

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Old 05-09-2010, 05:11 AM   #34
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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There is no problem as such with cheesy crowd-pleasing scenes if the movie also offers deep, meaningful stuff. In this case, it didn't. Also, I would question if many top-notch filmmakers would include cheesy stuff that is there just to be cool...




Hugh seemed more obsessed with protein shakes, devouring chicken salads in between takes on set and pumping up his muscle mass.

Wolverine is about more than looking good in a sleeveless top.

And that is obvious when you look at Sabretooth's performance (Liev DID do a lot of working out but the bulk of his performance was based on acting, not on showing off muscles), and also when you look at Wolverine in X1 where he was not nearly as muscular but still came across as masculine and moody.

Hugh needs to go beyond the superficial stuff with this character. Less time worrying about bicep size at the gym, more time studying the character, reading the comics and watching some footage of wild animals (including actual wolverines) and feral children.
Definately, watching the movie again the other day he just wasnt like the Wolverine we all know and love in the movie at all, save for a couple of brief moments. Yeah, he looked like Wolverine in the movie in a physical sense, but why bother when the script doesnt get the character right?

I hope they address some of this in Wolverine 2 but the damage is already done if you ask me.

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Old 05-09-2010, 07:34 AM   #35
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

I think Jackman has good intentions and respects the character. He finds his physical appearance important to his portrayal of Wolverine and there's nothing wrong with that. That's more depth of thought than some actors would give. Saying he's too pre-occupied with that aspect does him a diservice I think, because he does well with what is written for him as well, it's just what is written isn't nailing the character. The writing is the problem, and what has changed between X1 & 2 and the films since, not Jackman.

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Old 05-09-2010, 05:54 PM   #36
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

^Funnily enough, what changed is that Jackman became a producer for X3 and Wolverine, so he has some say in the script and movie.

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Old 05-10-2010, 07:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

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^Funnily enough, what changed is that Jackman became a producer for X3 and Wolverine, so he has some say in the script and movie.
Haha this I did not know. My point still stands though. He means well I think, but that doesn't mean he knows well.

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Old 05-11-2010, 11:16 PM   #38
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Default Re: In all honesty, why get a dramatic director for this movie?

I think the intentions with the producers were good. They were getting a quality director at a good price and someone relatively new to the movie industry that would be willing to compromise and work quickly to get the job done.

I don't know what the balance was between laying everything on the line in hopes of Hood to deliver or hoping that he would just get the film done the best he could under the conditions he had, but clearly, this kind of film was not right for him to do and it didn't seem like his heart was in it 100%. I do feel like some of the acting and dramatic scenes were done well, but the direction itself left a bit to be desired.

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