Batman: The Animated Series vs. The Batman

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Two-Face

BTAS beats TB in everything way. from animation to storyline etc...

Do you mean animation or art design?

[Two-Face]

Everything.

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Two-Face

BTAS beats TB in everything way. from animation to storyline etc...

But you just can't argue that! It's like saying the Hannah Barbera Superfriends cartoons outclass Miyazaki's films in terms of animation; it makes no sense and is just blatant nostalgia that blinds those who wear such rose tinted glasses to any possible flaws in what they love and any positives in what they hate.

I loathe the Marvel Super Squad, but even I can admit that it has atleast better animation than BTAS. To say BTAS had "flawless animation" or "superior to current cartoon" is a fallacy. It makes no sense!

[Two-Face]

Well excuse me for liking BTAS I loved every episodes. I loved the music. Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamil. BTAS was true to comics. Doing well with Robin's & Batgirl's Origins. Not to say TB was crap but I just prefer BTAS over. Is that hard to understand?

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Two-Face

Well excuse me for liking BTAS I loved every episodes. I loved the music. Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamil. BTAS was true to comics. Doing well with Robin's & Batgirl's Origins. Not to say TB was crap but I just prefer BTAS over. Is that hard to understand?

Not at all (though I can't fathom anyone liking I've Got Batman in my Basement), I love BTAS and vastly prefer it over The Batman by a longshot. But you state as if fact that BTAS was better in every single aspect, the biggest outright offender being animation, which can't honestly even be subjective. The Batman's animation was miles and miles ahead without question. If you meant art design then I simply misread you, but as much as I personally hold BTAS to be one of the best cartoons ever I know that saying it has superior animation to The Batman is just plain wrong. That is what's hard to understand; not your love of the show.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Yep. I loved what Batman: The Animated Series did not only to the Batman mythos, but the inspiration it brought to the animated industry. However, it have some weak animation. And there some episodes that pretty much bored me.

Not to say I like it any less, but pointing out the flaws of your favorite works is not bad.

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

Not to say I like it any less, but pointing out the flaws of your favorite works is not bad.

Indeed, I often find that the flaws in a show really help me evolve as an amateur writer and objective viewer myself, since a flaw in one show can often point towards another show that manages to avoid such a thing and appreciate the mix more. Its part of the reason I came to really like The Batman, its take on the Joker may have been controversial yes and I don't like the look still, but I loved that unlike BTAs it really explored the fragility of the character more as well as hinting at some underlying childhood trauma that spurned him. And that's just one example that was evident in several episodes.

[Two-Face]

Originally Posted by Two-Face=Badass

Not at all (though I can't fathom anyone liking I've Got Batman in my Basement), I love BTAS and vastly prefer it over The Batman by a longshot. But you state as if fact that BTAS was better in every single aspect, the biggest outright offender being animation, which can't honestly even be subjective. The Batman's animation was miles and miles ahead without question. If you meant art design then I simply misread you, but as much as I personally hold BTAS to be one of the best cartoons ever I know that saying it has superior animation to The Batman is just plain wrong. That is what's hard to understand; not your love of the show.

Well of course TB's animation is gonna be better, animation has come long way since the 90s.

[Nightwing]

Originally Posted by Joker

LOL! Oh come on, this is like pitting The Dark Knight against Batman and Robin.

BTAS is leaps and bounds above The Batman in virtually every way.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

BTAS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Batman

Everything was better. The writing, the designs, the voice acting. All superior.

These.

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Lone Wolf

These.

Did you like The Batman in any way?

[Dr. Scolex]

The one thing that always bugged me about The Batman was that almost EVERY villain was some kind of kung fu martial arts master. The Joker? Monkey Kung Fu. Penguin? Ball bustingly great Kung Fu. Clayface? Strangeish fluidy kung fu. Catwoman? Kung fu.

And the ones that aren't toal masters of it are damn near invincible! Clayface has little to no weakness, Poison Ivy is basically a demi god, Mr. Freeze doesn't need his freeze gun, he just shoots ice out of his hands, and Firefly is just.. Boba Fett except in Batman's world.

And the kicker? Batman kicks all of their asses every time. Sometimes, all at once too. The only villain that isn't in either category is the Riddler, and they just turned him into Marilyn Manson with a green motif.

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by Dr. Scolex

The one thing that always bugged me about The Batman was that almost EVERY villain was some kind of kung fu martial arts master. The Joker? Monkey Kung Fu. Penguin? Ball bustingly great Kung Fu. Clayface? Strangeish fluidy kung fu. Catwoman? Kung fu.

And the ones that aren't toal masters of it are damn near invincible! Clayface has little to no weakness, Poison Ivy is basically a demi god, Mr. Freeze doesn't need his freeze gun, he just shoots ice out of his hands, and Firefly is just.. Boba Fett except in Batman's world.

And the kicker? Batman kicks all of their asses every time. Sometimes, all at once too. The only villain that isn't in either category is the Riddler, and they just turned him into Marilyn Manson with a green motif.

I agree with you on too many vilains knowing fighting techniques and some being overpowered, but disagree on the villains being nearly invincible.

Firefly is repeatedly shown to be an absolute failure at anything combat related when deprived of flight.
Clayface could be frozen (or waxed over) which became a huge problem with him since Batman also gives the police force that technology.
Poison Ivy had plantkiller.

Also, Clayfacei s never shown to have kungfu at all, he just rampages using various shifting. Catwoman should know martial arts too, so that makes sense.

And while I too didn't like The Riddler's design your description seems to ignore that he was a far more rounded character than his BTAS counterpart, with a tragic backstory and explanation for his compulsions. Not to say BTAS' Riddler was bad though, he's the one character I know that becomes somehow more likealbe the smugger he gets.

I'll give you Penguin and Joker though, they really shoudn't fight like that. Joker fighting is not something that I disagree with, but it should be a real dirty street style, like grabbing anything to hit someone with or being able to lead a chase into a trap.

[batpawn]

Originally Posted by Two-Face=Badass

And while I too didn't like The Riddler's design your description seems to ignore that he was a far more rounded character than his BTAS counterpart, with a tragic backstory and explanation for his compulsions. Not to say BTAS' Riddler was bad though, he's the one character I know that becomes somehow more likealbe the smugger he gets.

absolutely. if 'the batman' got one thing right, it was the riddler. it managed to turn one of my most loathed villians (I 'really' dislike any other incarnation of this character) into an interesting, 3 dimensional character that I, actually, care about. even his goth-looks grew on me after a while. I LOVE the batman's riddler. almost any episode that featured him was definitely in 'TAS' level.

another thing 'the batman' got right was arkham. although you could argue with some choices of imprisonment (god damnit, the penguin is NOT insane), the show actually made it clear that arkham is a madhouse, while in TAS, it very often seemed like a simple prison. many episodes in the batman got scarily psychological depths to them, which often seemed frightening odd, considering the show was aimed for a younger audience. but I really have to say that 'strange minds' has turned out to become one of my favorite batman stories in any medium, period. A comicbook remake would be pretty fascinating.

that being said, I still prefer TAS over the batman, of course. But I still liked the batman very much. it was a fun, very entertaining show that enlightened my batman spirit every time I saw it.

[In2Minds]

Originally Posted by Drz

I have to agree with Two-Face=Badass that the animation was superiour in terms of combat. Infact does anyone remember much good from BTAS' action? We all have our favorite episodes and favorite moments in terms of dialogue and story, but i can never think of a moment where people go "oh man remember that freaking awesome action moment?" no i really can't recall much if any of those. @_@

Seriously dude? the scene where the joker has the Mayor's boy kidnapped on a rollercoaster? The Man Bat flight scene from the first episode? The big chase scene from mask of the phantasm when the cops are chasing Bats down through the constuction site. Again it may be because BTAS and the Timmverse shaped my childhood and turned me onto comics in general but the only thing i think the Batman Nailed totally was the riddler (personality wise) i mean eglund's arrogant, self entilted, scheming tones made Mr. Nygma my favourite character on an otherwise medicore show, and when they showed his origin, you actually feel really sorry for him, Mind you Paul Dini wrote those eps so....BTAS wins XD

[Two-Face=Badass]

Originally Posted by In2Minds

Seriously dude? the scene where the joker has the Mayor's boy kidnapped on a rollercoaster? The Man Bat flight scene from the first episode? The big chase scene from mask of the phantasm when the cops are chasing Bats down through the constuction site.

Yeah those scenes were animated very well to be sure (though I'd argue the rollercoaster scene as not that amazing), but for every On Leather Wings there seemed to be a horridly animated Cat Scratch Fever, Moon of the Wolf of The Mechanic. The Batman never had a badly animated episode, just ones that were better than the rest.

[Bathead]

You can put me squarely in the camp of preferring BTAS, but that doesn't mean I didn't like The Batman, for a lot of the same reasons already stated here by others.(animation, etc.)
One thing I do think The Batman did better was the backgrounds, highly detailed, very atmospheric, while BTAS's backgrounds were kind of bland. A minor thing, though.
Overall I think the Batman had a lot of good points, it's problem was, the writing could sometimes be hit or miss, mostly in the first few seasons but I still think it wasn't as horrible as some fans think. I've always got the impression was a lot of hate for it was simply that it wasn't BTAS.
I actually sorta liked the fresh takes on the villians, (exept for maybe the Penguin, he was far too "Burtonish" for my tastes). There were a number of episodes, especially in the last couple of seasons that I thought were as good as any of the best BTAS eps. Too bad it got cancelled just when it was getting good.

[crazy monkey]

Originally Posted by Drz

I have to agree with Two-Face=Badass that the animation was superiour in terms of combat. Infact does anyone remember much good from BTAS' action? We all have our favorite episodes and favorite moments in terms of dialogue and story, but i can never think of a moment where people go "oh man remember that freaking awesome action moment?" no i really can't recall much if any of those. @_@

Uh. . . Lets see.
The chase scene between the Batmobile and the exploding RC cars in Beware the Grey Ghost.

Every fight with Clayface. My personal faves, the fight through the tv studio in Feat of Clay and Batman blowing CF's head off with the Grapple gun in Mudslide.

Also from Feat of Clay - Batman interrogating Bell by dangling him from the winch on the Batplane by his wrist and screaming through the air. That scene messed me up good as a kid.

The fight against HARDAC's robots in Heart of Steel. The censors didn't care about kids seeing robots get f'd up, so the animators went to town. My fave is the one that Batman flips under the elevator and it just looks up dispassionately as the car comes down on its face.

Speaking of HARDAC, the fight between both Batmans in His Silicon Soul was also pretty hardcore, especially the end where the robot Bats blows the **** out of himself by sticking his fist thru the Batcomputer.

Tony Zucco getting dragged on his back along the pier by Robin on his bike at the end of Robin's Reckoning. Brutal.

Batman and Robin vs. the plant mutants in Home and Garden. Sick, gruesome deaths and creepy naked evil babies.

Batman vs. Killer Croc at the mill in the climax of Freakshow. I cringe every time I watch it when Batman drags Croc's arm thru the waterwheel and jams it with his body.

The fight with the safe-crackers in the flaming warehouse from P.O.V. The attention to lighting and shadow in that scene is simply beautiful.

Batman catches one of the twins' punches and proceeds to crush his fist, complete with bone-crunching foley. From Two-Face, part 2.

Just as the Jazzman is about to blow away a comatose Jim Gordon in his hospital bed, Batman arrives at the window to throw a shuriken right up the muzzle of his gun, backfiring the gun into his arm. I Am the Night.

That's just off the top of my head.

The difference for me between TAS and The Batman is that the violence in the older show had more emotional content. The fights in The Batman suffered the shortcomings of all American-made anime - Western animation directors just don't know when to hold back and when to let loose. The pacing is too frenetic and feels hollow. They confuse speed and strength with weightlessness and invincibilty. If I wanted an anime Batman, then I'd prefer Japanese directors and writers thanks.

[Thundarr]

I never watched much of The Batman, but what I saw was okay. I didn't like the design of a lot of the villains though. Between the two, Batman: The Animated Series is my favorite. The villains looked like their comic book counterparts, and in many cases acted like them too.

[Chris Wallace]

The Batman is absolute crap. It's a struggle for me to get through even a single episode. Yesterday I just gave up altogether. Give me the 90's series any day.

[Goldenage Batman]

I like the artwork on The Batman better cause it reminds me of Nightmare Before Christmas a little bit however I hated the show for the longest time, but it grew on me....But I gotta go with BTAS... it ruled my childhood and help turn me into the Batman fan I am today..

[Doc Ock]

BTAS, mainly because I view it as one of the if not the best cartoon of all time. Excellent voice acting, smooth animation, just about everything, it was the comics coming to life! I never liked The Batman....it just wasn't the Batman I knew. Plus BTAS was based somewhat off of the fantastic Burton films so that is a plus.

[Goldenage Batman]

I beleive the theme song(BTAS) was done by Danny Elfmen...who wrote the music for the Burton Batman movies...

[Bathead]

The original theme for BTAS was a variation of the music for the Burton movie, so yes, technically it was written by Elfman, but for Burton's movie and adapted for BTAS.

[blackkeno]

Although it took some getting used to, I really enjoyed "The Batman" for the reasons mentioned earlier. My favorate would still have to be BTAS. I grew up on the '60s and 70s Batman TV shows. So, my perspective of TB was not just that it wasn't as good as BTAS, but rather that it was much better than the 70's cartoon--the new adventures of Batman and Robin.

I also really liked Batman Beyond, but have still not really gotten Brave and the Bold. It does amaze me that "The Batman" seems to be so heavily panned--even by comparison to BATB.

I would rate the cartoons 1-BTAS, 2-TB, 3-BBeyond, 4-BrBld, 5-NABR

[Chris Wallace]

Joker shouldn't have dreds.