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Old 11-21-2009, 12:02 PM   #1
ck1777
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Default New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!)

I've noticed the people who want a new origin keep bringing up Batman Begins as an example of how a new Superman movie should be done. That's great and all, but Batman Begins didn't just show a never before seen origin, but it also did everything the OPPOSITE of Batman 89. Since Burton's Batman wasn't very accurate to the comics, it wasn't hard for Nolan to make an origin film that was accurate to the comics. But if you notice, the few things that Batman 89 got right (Joker falling in vat, Wayne's going to Movie theatre, traditional Batmobile etc.) are the things the new franchise has changed.

The problem with this is Donner's Superman was much closer to the comic than Burton's Batman. So if you wan't to make a new Superman origin, you have to do everything the opposite of Donner's. So this thread is to come up with ways to do the opposite of Donner's for a new origin. After seeing Star Trek again on BLU-RAY my idea for a reboot is definitley a Legion movie (see my other thread), but if Warner Brothers just wants a new Superman Origin here are some thoughts.

The obvious changes:
1)Lex - This is the easiest one to change. I personally only want to see CEO Lex if by the end of the movie he loses everything he has and is a wanted criminal.
2)New Villain - I rather have a Sci-fi villain (Braniac) and no Lex. Give Lex a vacation and save him for the sequel!
3)12 Years - In S:TM we see Clark at 18 years old one second and by the end of Brando's dialogue he's 30 year old Superman. In the new movie we should see what happens when Clark chooses to be Superman, the costume etc.
4)Pa Kent - Not dying
5)Younger Jor-el and Lara
6)Format of the movie - have flashbacks, or have a Tarentino like movie where all the scenes are out of order (I doubt the WB would want that).

Bigger changes:
1)Krypton's end - Not only has this one been done In S:TM, but it has been done the same in EVERY SINGLE VERSION of Superman (6 live action versions, and like a 1,000 cartoons) While I love Krypton blowing up, unfortunately today's generation would much rather see something a lot darker. Maybe someone is sent to kill Jor-el and his bloodline and Jor-el sends him to earth, not only to escape but to also become invulnerable under our yellow sun so when they do find him they can't kill him. (I'm not sure but wasn't JJ Abrams script something like that?)
2)Daily Planet - Another one that has been done pretty much the same in every incarnation of the character. I'd save the DP and it's cast for the sequel, and have Lana as the love interest for the first movie. Maybe the last scene in the movie could have Clark going to an interview with Perry White.
3)The Costume - This one I don't want to happen, but unfortunately it's definitely going to happen wether we like it or not. Let's just hope it's better than Nic Cage's costume (my choice would be Superman One million's costume with the classic symbol).

Again, it's much harder to do something fresh with Superman than it is with Batman. Even if you do the opposite of Donner's real estate Lex, you'll probably wind up with John Shea or Michael Rosenbaum's. Even If you have Lana as the love interest and don't have Lois and Clark, you'll have something similar to Smallville and the Superboy show. Even if you have Pa Kent alive, it'll be just like Lois and Clark, Superboy, Smallville.

Coming up with a fresh new take on Superman is much harder than Batman, James Bond, or Star Trek. When you think about it, all Nolan had to do was show Batman's origin (which had never been shown), and also do the opposite of Burton's Batman and Adam West's Batman (which wasn't very hard to do!). If anything Superman is much closer to Robin Hood, Dracula, and Three Musketeers which are all characters that have been re-done countless times.

So here it is:
I've stated what I would do with a new Superman Origin (at least the only one's I could think of right now). As much as I love Superman, If I was a movie exec I wouldn't pay $200 million to make something that's similar to
Donner's or any other version of Superman we've seen in the last 20 years (Superboy Lois and Clark, Smallville). And as much as I hate Burton's take on Superman, I can't blame the WB fo trying to come up with a new take on the character.

What are some ways we can have a completely fresh origin that doesn't show anything Donner's already did and at the same time try to be different from all the other versions of Superman, but also staying true to the character?

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Old 11-21-2009, 12:18 PM   #2
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

Nothing new here, move along folks...



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Old 11-21-2009, 12:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Originally Posted by ck1777 View Post
(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!)
I stopped reading right there.

Also why isnt this discussed in the origin thread? If every time someone had a proposal we had a new thread....

Also, destroying the canon because its been done before is flawed logic.

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Old 11-21-2009, 12:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

^ Agreed.

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Old 11-21-2009, 01:03 PM   #5
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Old 11-21-2009, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I stopped reading right there.

Also why isnt this discussed in the origin thread? If every time someone had a proposal we had a new thread....

Also, destroying the canon because its been done before is flawed logic.
Why did you stop reading after I said I loved S:TM?

I'm not saying this should be the new Superman, what I'm saying is if I was going to do what BATMAN BEGINS did (and do the opposite of everything Batman 89 did) these are some of the things I could think of.

This thread isn't about what should be done in the origin, it's about doing the opposite of what's been done like Nolan did with Batman. It's definitely not about destroying canon! I'ts about investing in a movie that's going to sell to modern audiences. You think it's a coincidence that for the last 15 years Warner Brothers has been trying to make a completely different take on Superman?

The point of this thread was to come up with things that have'nt been done before, but at the same time keep the characters true to the comics.

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Old 11-21-2009, 01:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

I didnt stop reading. Its a figure of speech. You said its your favourite movie. I mean... come on...
Anyway, apart from other things you suggest, in your origin Krypton isnt destroyed. That would create a whole lot of mess in the storylines.

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Old 11-21-2009, 01:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

you brought up some good points, but there is still many ways how you can have krypton destruction, lex, the kents, and daily planet all keep stuff and be different then past takes.

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Old 11-21-2009, 01:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I didnt stop reading. Its a figure of speech. You said its your favourite movie. I mean... come on...
Anyway, apart from other things you suggest, in your origin Krypton isnt destroyed. That would create a whole lot of mess in the storylines.
Again, I don't understand why that's hard to believe since it's a great movie.

I'm not saying they shouldn't destroy Krypton, I'm just saying if I was going to do the opposite of Donner's krypton that would be one possibility. Most people just say base the origin on Birthright, or Man of Steel but that's not enough. Don't you guys think that DC has pitched those stories to the WB? They don't want them!

So again if WB came to you and said they want a new origin but it has to be the opposite of Donner's or any other version, what would you do?

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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you brought up some good points, but there is still many ways how you can have krypton destruction, lex, the kents, and daily planet all keep stuff and be different then past takes.
You're absolutely right! I'm just stating the easiest ways I could think of. Donner's version is the most famous version of Superman, so I thought if I was going to do everything the opposite of S:TM that's some of the things that could be possible.

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.
Having Brainiac as the first villain would not only give Lex time to slowly descend to evil, but by giving him a Kryptonian origin, we could get more flashbacks about Krypton's last days, Jor-El's efforts to save his son, and even explain why nobody else made it out of Krypton (Brainiac sabotaged every escape).

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

I'd end the movie exactly the way this trailer ends but obviously with the new Jor-El's voice.
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.


Last edited by Mr. Earle; 11-21-2009 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 11-21-2009, 02:19 PM   #12
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.
I like that idea. I wouldn't mind if they kept krypton a mystery. I really enjoyed the firsf t 3 seasons of Smallville and that's one othe things I liked most about it.

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

Once he gets the Fortress, he and we will learn about Krypton. Besides, Smallville is a tv series (and a ****** one at that) that had to leave most things for later because they would run out of material after a few episodes.

PS: I edited my previous post adding a few more things and a video.

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Once he gets the Fortress, he and we will learn about Krypton. Besides, Smallville is a tv series (and a ****** one at that) that had to leave most things for later because they would run out of material after a few episodes.

PS: I edited my previous post adding a few more things and a video.

Well as much as I HATED seasons 4-8 the first 3 seasons, it still did a good job keeping Krypton a mystery. Even better, Geoff Johns Secret Origin is showing Clarks origin from his point of view and later on I'm sure krypton will be adressed.

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Old 11-21-2009, 02:36 PM   #15
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I dont know if the Secret Origin is any good, but i know that most comic book fans consider Johns a pretty bad writer.

From wikipedia:
Quote:
Post-Infinite Crisis continuity revisions to Superman's origin

  • Lana Lang is aware about Clark having special abilities almost as soon as they begin developing in his pre-teen years. She becomes Clark's only confidant outside his parents and the Legion of Super-Heroes, but is unaware he is an alien up until their teenage years (as with the Man of Steel mini-series).
  • In addition to Clark, the Kents themselves are able to access the holographic records contained in the rocket and understand them to learn about Clark's original planet.
  • Kryptonian materials' extreme durability in a yellow sun environment is restored.
  • Clark's costume is based on his mother's observations of typical Kryptonian children's clothing in holographic recordings contained in Jor-El's rocket and is motivated by Martha's desire that Clark should embrace his original planet's heritage as well as his adopted one. It is again fashioned by Martha Kent from blankets in the rocket, including the chest symbol which she observed is the crest of the House of El. Martha explain the suit is intended to be used by Clark when he engages his powers without damaging his regular clothes.
  • Clark starts wearing glasses, made from round pieces of Kryptonian transparent material, soon after his heat vision develops to contain unwanted firings caused by sexual arousal.
  • Clark's flying ability develops earlier in his life when he saves Lana from a tornado, although he initially has difficulty controlling it.
  • Martha Kent is revealed to have some German lineage.
  • As previously revealed in the "Superman and the Legion of Super-Heroes" storyarc in Action Comics, Clark took on the identity of Superboy as a teenager, but only in the future as a member of the Legion.
  • The recordings in the rocket establish Clark's future Kryptonian enemies from the beginning of his history: Brainiac; the Phantom Zone prisoners (General Zod, Ursa and Non); and Doomsday.
  • Chloe Sullivan is shown as a Smallville resident, as evident of the "Chloe S." written on Pete's cast.
  • The Legion of Super-Heroes now is inspired by the genuine Superman, although they operate without sanction by their times' authorities.
  • Krypto is again Clark's pet in his childhood years on Earth.
As i said... Johns is a lame writer.


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Old 11-21-2009, 02:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I've noticed the people who want a new origin keep bringing up Batman Begins as an example of how a new Superman movie should be done. That's great and all, but Batman Begins didn't just show a never before seen origin, but it also did everything the OPPOSITE of Batman 89. Since Burton's Batman wasn't very accurate to the comics, it wasn't hard for Nolan to make an origin film that was accurate to the comics. But if you notice, the few things that Batman 89 got right (Joker falling in vat, Wayne's going to Movie theatre, traditional Batmobile etc.) are the things the new franchise has changed.
I think what made easy for Nolan to have a new vision on Batman's origin wasn't what Burton changed - because Nolan changed as many things as Burton did - but the fact that Burton never went to the details of it. At the beginning of B89 Batman is already there and we never see how did he get to become Batman. A detailed origin was still widely possible.

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All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was?
Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.

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Old 11-21-2009, 03:00 PM   #17
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Well really do we need a remake?....I mean if the movie is good then the GA will love it and it will get money....They can make the movie look different so people wqill know its nothing like Donner's movies...New theme music, new Metropolis look, characters act differently, especially Lex Luthor....Be like Star Trek movie, which someone said is not really a remake or reboot whatever....I thought it was though.

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Old 11-21-2009, 03:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I dont know if the Secret Origin is any good, but i know that most comic book fans consider Johns a pretty bad writer.

From wikipedia:
As i said... Johns is a lame writer.
Have you actually read a Geoff Johns comic? And also, I don't know where you came up with that theory, but Geoff Johns is one of the most critically acclaimed, and easily one of the most popular writers in comics today.

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Old 11-21-2009, 03:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I think what made easy for Nolan to have a new vision on Batman's origin wasn't what Burton changed - because Nolan changed as many things as Burton did - but the fact that Burton never went to the details of it. At the beginning of B89 Batman is already there and we never see how did he get to become Batman. A detailed origin was still widely possible.



Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.
I completely agree, most of these remakes are horrible!

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Old 11-21-2009, 03:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

Again, the point of this thread is not about what to do for an origin, but what to do that's COMPLETELY the opposite from Donner's version.

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Old 11-21-2009, 03:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Have you actually read a Geoff Johns comic? And also, I don't know where you came up with that theory, but Geoff Johns is one of the most critically acclaimed, and easily one of the most popular writers in comics today.
Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Sure, I'm not against a new Superman origin movie... but the logic of "there are so many remakes, why not yet another one?" doesn't sound too good. Specially when the majority of those remakes suck.
That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh Prince View Post
Well really do we need a remake?....I mean if the movie is good then the GA will love it and it will get money....They can make the movie look different so people wqill know its nothing like Donner's movies...New theme music, new Metropolis look, characters act differently, especially Lex Luthor....Be like Star Trek movie, which someone said is not really a remake or reboot whatever....I thought it was though.
I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.


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Old 11-21-2009, 03:54 PM   #22
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Again, the point of this thread is not about what to do for an origin, but what to do that's COMPLETELY the opposite from Donner's version.
I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:17 PM   #23
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Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference. That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again. I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.
Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but Geoff johns is insanely popular. In fact he's definitley more popular with fans than he is with the critics.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:28 PM   #24
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Critically acclaimed maybe, but he is hated by most fans. There is a difference. That's why i said they should tell the origin in a different way, add new stuff in it, etc.
Besides, aside from the origin story, the rest of the plot will probably be different anyway. The first Donner movie had crook Lex as the villain right? No chance of seeing that again. I agree. They should redesign a few things, and especially Krypton and the Fortress if you ask me.



Exactly....Go the Star Trek route...And please no crook Lex.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:29 PM   #25
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I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.
Yes but they need to get away from Donnerverse though.

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