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Old 11-21-2009, 04:35 PM   #26
Mr. Earle
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Dude, I don't know who you've been talking to but Geoff johns is insanely popular. In fact he's definitley more popular with fans than he is with the critics.
I might be wrong...

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Yes but they need to get away from Donnerverse though.
The Donnerverse depicted the Superman of that time. There have been many changes to the character since then. Clark being more dynamic and not an idiot is one of them.
They only need to give us the current version of Superman and that would be enough.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I might be wrong...

The Donnerverse depicted the Superman of that time. There have been many changes to the character since then. Clark being more dynamic and not an idiot is one of them.
They only need to give us the current version of Superman and that would be enough.


Agreed 100%....Clark Kent is as smart as his alter ego and firm aswell....Lex Luthor is a billionaire, corrupt/corporate buisnessman....Lois Lane is well Lois Lane....But they can do all that without an remake/reboot or orgin story....People are smart to know the difference between Donnerverse and the current Superman(I hope).

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I dont think people like the idea of going the opposite way just for the sake of it. And as El Payaso said, Nolan didnt go the opposite way than Burton. Burton never handled the origin.
But Nolan did do the opposite of Burton on a lot of things. Like I posted before the movie theatre, Joker's origin, traditional Batmobile etc. There are more but those are the only ones I can think of right now(I haven't see the old Batman movies in a long time). Like I said the few things that Burton did that were accurate to the comic, are the few only things that Nolan did that were'nt accurate to the comic. He did it on purpose.

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Old 11-21-2009, 04:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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[/B]

Agreed 100%....Clark Kent is as smart as his alter ego and firm aswell....Lex Luthor is a billionaire, corrupt/corporate buisnessman....Lois Lane is well Lois Lane....But they can do all that without an remake/reboot or orgin story....People are smart to know the difference between Donnerverse and the current Superman(I hope).

Lex isn't a corporate buisness man any more.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

actually he is from what it looking like.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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All this stuff was done in a movie 30 years ago. Lately we see many movies getting a remake, so why cant they remake Superman's origin as it was? It doesnt need to be different, it just needs to show new things and be presented with a different narrative technique.

Some time ago i proposed they start the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By saying goodbye to his parents, Lana and friends, he discusses his past, and we see flashbacks of it. By discussing with his parents we get to see how they found him, how they raised him and how he discovered his powers, by breaking up with Lana we get a flashback to their relationship and their school years, etc.
Then Clark moves to Metropolis and finds it hard to adjust to his new life and the more hostile urban environment. At this point he has his first missions as superman and a job at the Planet. Lois' taunts and his loneliness in the city trigger more flashbacks.
Having Brainiac as the first villain would not only give Lex time to slowly descend to evil, but by giving him a Kryptonian origin, we could get more flashbacks about Krypton's last days, Jor-El's efforts to save his son, and even explain why nobody else made it out of Krypton (Brainiac sabotaged every escape).

The movie would have family as its theme. Clark/Superman is the person he is because of the 4 wonderful people that were his parents. I'd focus on that and make a very sentimental origin.
The movie would end with Clark finding his feet in his new life as Superman, and a reporter.

I'd end the movie exactly the way this trailer ends but obviously with the new Jor-El's voice.
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


The second movie's theme would be Superman's effect on the city, the world and of course Lex.
that would be a good way to go.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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But Nolan did do the opposite of Burton on a lot of things. Like I posted before the movie theatre, Joker's origin, traditional Batmobile etc. There are more but those are the only ones I can think of right now(I haven't see the old Batman movies in a long time). Like I said the few things that Burton did that were accurate to the comic, are the few only things that Nolan did that were'nt accurate to the comic. He did it on purpose.
Well, it's not like Burton changed things 'accidentally' either. It was on purpose too.

And there was a big number of things Nolan changed and from significative importance. Like Ras being Ducard, Luicius Fox being Bruce's ally, Rachel Dawes, Joe Chill being killed after being released, Joe Chill being captured the very night of the Waynes' murder, Joker being a face-painter, Joker disfiguring Two-Face, etc etc.


The curious thing is that in B89, we have a detailed origin of the Joker and little of Batman's. In Nolan movies we have a detailed origin of Batman and little of Joker's.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

Nolan had to reboot the Batman franchise as B&R destroyed the movie franchise....S3 and S4 were not good but not as bad as B&R....Also SR had mixed reaction and it was an okay movie....They do not have to reboot or remake just redesign.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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the movie theatre
Eh... what?
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traditional Batmobile
And giving the batmobile a new design is a big change? Nolan designed it in a way that it would fit his realistic world.

They are different versions of the same character, but they are not opposite.
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that would be a good way to go.
Thanks!

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:29 PM   #35
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Eh... what?
And giving the batmobile a new design is a big change? Nolan designed it in a way that it would fit his realistic world.

They are different versions of the same character, but they are not opposite.Thanks!
In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Well, it's not like Burton changed things 'accidentally' either. It was on purpose too.

And there was a big number of things Nolan changed and from significative importance. Like Ras being Ducard, Luicius Fox being Bruce's ally, Rachel Dawes, Joe Chill being killed after being released, Joe Chill being captured the very night of the Waynes' murder, Joker being a face-painter, Joker disfiguring Two-Face, etc etc.


The curious thing is that in B89, we have a detailed origin of the Joker and little of Batman's. In Nolan movies we have a detailed origin of Batman and little of Joker's.
Well every comic book movie has to simplify everything, and that's what Nolan did with you're examples. Batman trained with Ninjas in the comics, and since Ra's has a league of ninjas why not combine them. Luscious starts off just giving him some technology and then he realizes what he's using it for. They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.

But yeah that's one of the better examples. Batman 89 is 70% Joker and his origin, meanwhile TDK didn't even mention his origin.

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Old 11-21-2009, 05:39 PM   #37
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I Just made up a little game. Wb has just asked you to make a new Superman origin but the catch is they want it to be the opposite of Donner's. So make a Superman movie that doesn't have any of these things listed. At the same time try to keep it as close to the comics as possible.

S:TM
1)Jor-el sends his son to Earth
2)Kal-el is found by the Kents
3)Raised by the Kents until Johnathan dies
4)Goes to the Arctic
5)Clark Meets Jor-el and learns about Krypton in new fortress
6)Get's job at Daily Planet
7)Superman makes his debut by rescuing a helicopter
8)Lois interviews Superman
9)Lex puts his scheme in motion
10)Superman meets Lex
11)Lex almost kills Superman
12)Superman saves everyone from missiles
13)Turns back time to save Lois
14)Superman smiles at the camera
15)Credits

My version (all of these were improvised on the spot)
1)No Krypton. keep it a mystery for the sequel
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
3)raised by Kents and Johnathan doesn't die
4)Goes around the world with Lana and her archaeologist father.
5)Find some sort of Alien technology
6)Technology awakens Brainac
7)Fights Braniac drone
8)Almost dies from the Braniac fight
9)Lana finds out about Clarks powers
10)Clark realizes he's the only one that can stop Braniac
11)Creates a prototype costume with a certain kryptonian symbol
12)Stops Braniac and saves the day
13)Finds a couple of kryptonian clues from Brainiacs tech
14)Tells lana he's made his decision and is moving to Metropolis
15)makes an appointment for a job interview
16)Credits

The only one that's the same as S:TM was kal being found by the Kents. If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head. Just so I could here all the people who always complain about Pa dying in almost every version. I'm joking.

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Old 11-21-2009, 06:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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(For the record, Donner's Superman is my favorite movie of all time!)
Not the wisest of thread openers.

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Old 11-21-2009, 06:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.


Yeah I hated that.

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Old 11-21-2009, 06:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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Well every comic book movie has to simplify everything, and that's what Nolan did with you're examples. Batman trained with Ninjas in the comics, and since Ra's has a league of ninjas why not combine them. Luscious starts off just giving him some technology and then he realizes what he's using it for. They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.
Well yes, simplify or change, you can find there the answer as to why they had Joker killing the Waynes. He's the biggest bat-foe and they have a story hating each other so why having a third character - Joe Chill - that will be there just to kill the Waynes and then dissapear. The way Burton did it, both characters created each other.

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But yeah that's one of the better examples. Batman 89 is 70% Joker and his origin, meanwhile TDK didn't even mention his origin.
And both directors did that for the same reason: they wanted tokeep the mistery around the characters. Burton with Batman and Nolan with Joker.

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Old 11-21-2009, 07:46 PM   #41
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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In every version of Batmans origins his parents are killed coming out of the movie theatre not an opera house.
They changed that because
1) Nolan felt it would be deconstructive if a movie character went to the movies.
2) Wanted bruce to get the vigilante idea himself and not copy Zorro.
Why is it such a big change to you anyway? Nolan only improved the basic concept by having Bruce figuring out his path and suit design himself.
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They needed a female love interest so they created Rachel, even though Vicki vale is probably the most famous love interest besides Catwoman.
Because they wanted a childhood friend and not any love interest. And yeah... Its Catwoman, Talia, Wonderwoman, and somewhere down the ladder you'll find Vicky Vale.


Last edited by Mr. Earle; 11-21-2009 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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I Just made up a little game. Wb has just asked you to make a new Superman origin but the catch is they want it to be the opposite of Donner's. So make a Superman movie that doesn't have any of these things listed. At the same time try to keep it as close to the comics as possible.
OK, you re starting to piss me off. What the **** is your obsession with going opposite to everything that Donner did? Did Donner sleep with your wife?
Quote:
S:TM
1)Jor-el sends his son to Earth
2)Kal-el is found by the Kents
3)Raised by the Kents until Johnathan dies
4)Goes to the Arctic
5)Clark Meets Jor-el and learns about Krypton in new fortress
6)Get's job at Daily Planet
7)Superman makes his debut by rescuing a helicopter
8)Lois interviews Superman
9)Lex puts his scheme in motion
10)Superman meets Lex
11)Lex almost kills Superman
12)Superman saves everyone from missiles
13)Turns back time to save Lois
14)Superman smiles at the camera
15)Credits
I'll play along:
1) His son sends Kent to Krypton.
2) Jonathan is found by the Els.
3) Raised by the Els until Jor-El dies.
4) Goes to the Equator
5) Jonathan meets Jor-El and learns about Earth in new basement
6) Gets fired from the Yearly Moon
7) Lamewoman ends her career by destroying a car
8) Superman interviews Lois
9) Scheme puts his Lex in motion.
10) Superman and Lex dont meet
11) Lex saves Superman
12) Missiles kill everyone
13) Lets Lois dead. She was a whiny ***** anyway.
14) Superman gives the finger to the camera.
15) No credits.
Quote:
My version (all of these were improvised on the spot)
1)No Krypton. keep it a mystery for the sequel
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
3)raised by Kents and Johnathan doesn't die
4)Goes around the world with Lana and her archaeologist father.
5)Find some sort of Alien technology
6)Technology awakens Brainac
7)Fights Braniac drone
8)Almost dies from the Braniac fight
9)Lana finds out about Clarks powers
10)Clark realizes he's the only one that can stop Braniac
11)Creates a prototype costume with a certain kryptonian symbol
12)Stops Braniac and saves the day
13)Finds a couple of kryptonian clues from Brainiacs tech
14)Tells lana he's made his decision and is moving to Metropolis
15)makes an appointment for a job interview
16)Credits

The only one that's the same as S:TM was kal being found by the Kents. If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head. Just so I could here all the people who always complain about Pa dying in almost every version. I'm joking.
What is this... i dont even....
Quote:
2)Found by Kents (I can't come up with anything different than that)
I've you re so obsessed with going against Donner, how about this: He was found and raised by wolves! Or the Luthors. Or the Waynes. Or hookers (if the movie is directed by Frank Miller)
Quote:
If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head.
Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!


Last edited by Mr. Earle; 11-21-2009 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:33 PM   #43
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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OK, you re starting to piss me off. What the **** is your obsession with going opposite to everything that Donner did? Did Donner sleep with your wife?
I'll play along:
1) His son sends Kent to Krypton.
2) Jonathan is found by the Els.
3) Raised by the Els until Jor-El dies.
4) Goes to the Equator
5) Jonathan meets Jor-El and learns about Earth in new basement
6) Gets fired from the Yearly Moon
7) Lamewoman ends her career by destroying a car
8) Superman interviews Lois
9) Scheme puts his Lex in motion.
10) Superman and Lex dont meet
11) Lex saves Superman
12) Missiles kill everyone
13) Lets Lois dead. She was a whiny ***** anyway.
14) Superman gives the finger to the camera.
15) No credits.
What is this... i dont even....
I've you re so obsessed with going against Donner, how about this: He was found and raised by wolves! Or the Luthors. Or the Waynes. Or hookers (if the movie is directed by Frank Miller) Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!
Ok for the 1000 time, my favorite movie of all time is Donner's Superman.

If it was up to me, I would choose an adaptation of All-star Superman starring Jon Hamm. My 2nd choice would be a Legion movie like I said in the other thread.

I don't really want to see another version of Supermans origins. But if they are going to make a new origin I know it's going to be completely different than what we've seen before. So this thread was a way of coming up with different ideas for Supermans origin that was in no way like Donner's but at the same time close to to the comics.

I feel like an adult who has to tell a bunch of kids that there isn't
a Santa Clause! How much more proof do you want that the WB doesn't want a Classic Superman? Just look at the history over the last 15-20 years. Expect something a lot closer to Nic Cage's Superman, than anything from the comics.

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Old 11-21-2009, 08:41 PM   #44
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How can it be different from Donner's but close to the comics origin? Donner's origin is the comics origin. If you dont want the origin, that's fine, but instead of changing it, they could simply show it during the opening credits, like the Incredible Hulk did.
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How much more proof do you want that the WB doesn't want a Classic Superman?
Provide said proof.

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Old 11-21-2009, 08:47 PM   #45
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How can be different from Donner's but close to the comics? Donner's origin is the comics origin. If you dont want the origin, that's fine, but instead of changing it, they could simply show it during the opening credits, like the Incredible Hulk did.
Provide said proof.
If you want proof go to google and type a)Superman and then B)development hell You'll find all the stuff that happened with Smith, Burton,McG, Ratner etc.

Also why do you think SR got made in the first place? All the things people hate about that movie are the same things that got the movie greenlit by WB. Darker colors, the kid, Lois's new boyfriend etc. that's the stuff they loved about the movie.

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Old 11-21-2009, 08:51 PM   #46
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And since people hated all that, i think that DC took the message and my money is on a reboot that will feature the current comics version of Superman and be based on the current continuity and stories. That would be the wise thing to do, anyway.

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Old 11-21-2009, 08:51 PM   #47
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

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OK, you re starting to piss me off.
Oh no!

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If I was being paid and they forced me to do something different with that, I would have Johnathan holding the baby in the sky (like the Lion King) and then have Martha in the background killed with a meteorite to the head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
Wow, Revenge of the Fallen is "Citizen Kane" compared to this!

Wow it's funny how you conveniently took out the part where I said I was joking


Last edited by ck1777; 11-21-2009 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 11-21-2009, 08:57 PM   #48
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And since people hated all that, i think that DC took the message and my money is on a reboot that will feature the current comics version of Superman and be based on the current continuity and stories. That would be the wise thing to do, anyway.
That's right fans did hate all that, but what makes you think WB hated it. There has been a bunch of DC writers that have pitched to the WB after SR and they were all denied. So what makes you think they've learned there lesson?

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Old 11-21-2009, 09:07 PM   #49
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They changed that because
1) Nolan felt it would be deconstructive if a movie character went to the movies.
2) Wanted bruce to get the vigilante idea himself and not copy Zorro.
Why is it such a big change to you anyway? Nolan only improved the basic concept by having Bruce figuring out his path and suit design himself.
Because they wanted a childhood friend and not any love interest. And yeah... Its Catwoman, Talia, Wonderwoman, and somewhere down the ladder you'll find Vicky Vale.
What? I didn't say it was a big change, all I said is that it's one of the few things that Nolan did that was different from the comics. I didn't mind the change at all!

Catwoman and Talia were never in a million years going to be in Batman Begins because there is waaay to much back story for both of them. And Wonder Woman? I know I asked before if you've ever read a Geoff Johns comic before, but have you actually ever read any comic before? Because as far as I know WW and Batman Have only been linked in JL TAS and that wasn't even a love interest, that was more like intense flirting.

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Old 11-21-2009, 09:11 PM   #50
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Default Re: New Origin = Opposite of Donner's

Why everybody compayng Citizens Kane to movies like TDK and TF2?

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