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Old 11-25-2009, 08:05 PM   #1
Project862006
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Default Lack Of Tension?

Does anyone think this is a problem with superman films and for the future that they lack any tension at all.How can an audience feel like Supes is in any danger when he can take anything but kryptonite.Similar to how Dr. Manhattan was never in danger in Watchmen how can the audience fear for his life when he is virtually indestructible.

whats the solution a Villain on his level perhaps ?

lex luther is just a bald dude in a suit lol

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #2
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1) When they had Zod, they didnt have the technology to make the fight awesome so even with a villain like him it wasnt that tense. And now that they had the technology, they just used Lex Luthor. But i admit that i was worried for him when he got stabbed by Lex.
2) You missed the point of Watchmen. The point and tension wasnt that anyone of them was in danger.


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Old 11-25-2009, 08:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

i know the point of watchmen just making a comparison to their powers

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:35 PM   #4
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i know the point of watchmen just making a comparison to their powers
Ok, sorry.

Lex Luthor is what the Joker is to Batman. The Joker doesnt pose a physical threat to Batman and yet he is his hardest opponent.
Superman is hurt by green Kryptonite, becomes powerless under red sun radiation, he is very vulnerable to magic, or you can simply beat him up real good until he dies. That's how Doomsday killed him.

I also think that that Darkseid can zap him with his Omega Effect and kill him.
Also:
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the goddamn Batman.

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

Yeah Superman can die.....Gotta find a way to do it....Also if Darkseid can just zap and kill Superman like that why doesn't he?

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:39 PM   #6
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Doomsday was badass man, only man to kill Superman EVER!!!!...He has to be the best villian Superman faced.

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:50 PM   #7
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Yeah Superman can die.....Gotta find a way to do it....Also if Darkseid can just zap and kill Superman like that why doesn't he?
Darkseid can do whatever he wants with those beams. He can just erase you from existence or send you to the past to live an infinite number of lives and deaths as a punishment for opposing him. That's what he did to Batman.
I think that Superman can endure the first one though its stated that nobody can escape or endure the omega beams.

In other words, its down to the writer to use them as he wishes.
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Doomsday was badass man, only man to kill Superman EVER!!!!...He has to be the best villian Superman faced.
Best in a fight maybe. As a character... he is pretty lame. Also, he is not a man, but a Kryptonian beast or something.

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Old 11-25-2009, 08:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

They already used the Superman almost dies ploy in SR, I don't want to see it again so soon.

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Old 11-25-2009, 09:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

have the parasite take away superman's invulnerability.

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Old 11-25-2009, 09:13 PM   #10
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They already used the Superman almost dies ploy in SR, I don't want to see it again so soon.
I think he is asking how can a villain beat superman when he is so powerful and invulnerable. Superman needs to be in danger, but yeah i agree, they shouldnt bring him within an inch of his life so soon.
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have the parasite take away superman's invulnerability.
Bravo! I forgot about that!

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Old 11-25-2009, 10:36 PM   #11
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So Bruce WAyne will live infinite lives and die alot....Until somehow he gets out of that mess.

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Old 11-25-2009, 10:40 PM   #12
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So Bruce Wayne will live infinite lives and die alot....Until somehow he gets out of that mess.

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Old 11-26-2009, 12:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
Does anyone think this is a problem with superman films and for the future that they lack any tension at all.How can an audience feel like Supes is in any danger when he can take anything but kryptonite.Similar to how Dr. Manhattan was never in danger in Watchmen how can the audience fear for his life when he is virtually indestructible.

whats the solution a Villain on his level perhaps ?

lex luther is just a bald dude in a suit lol
1. Yes a Villain on his level would help a lot.

Sure he can have a fight with a Badguy on his level, or that brings him donw to their level. Parasite, Livewire, Metallo, and a long list of others can have good fights with Superman.


2. The audience does not need to feel tension for Superman's life, they just need to feel tension. This can be for other humans that he has to save.

There is a hostage situation, with bombs set to go off if someone enters the motion field. Will he be fast enough to save the people inside as the bombs start to go off? - that is drama and tension, even if we are not thinking about Superman dying, someone else may be at risk, and his dramatic momment is to save them.

There are some situations where a ton of power and being indestructable are of little help. Even his speed when he cannot be everywhere at once is not going to fix the situation, and he still has to use his head.

Keep in mind, this is Not DragonBallZ where he just shows up and fights the bad guy.

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Old 11-26-2009, 02:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

I always thought that they should de-power Superman in the films so that a Supervillain will stand a chance.

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Old 11-26-2009, 05:41 AM   #15
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I always thought that they should de-power Superman in the films so that a Supervillain will stand a chance.
He was depowered in STAS.
Anyway, good points SuperMike, but after so many movies that we barely feared for his life, it wouldnt be bad if Brainiac comes and kicks his ass a little bit. I'd like to see a huge battle all over Metropolis, through buildings, using cars, light poles, etc...

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Old 11-26-2009, 04:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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2. The audience does not need to feel tension for Superman's life, they just need to feel tension.
This. Anybody ever thought the Joker could kill Batman in TDK? Not a chance in hell. Was there tension? Tons of it.

That's the kind of thing you want to take from movies like TDK. Ehm, of course, knowing the nice folks over at WB that will read as an invitation to tout the "dark" BS talk again, but it's really less about the tone and more about good and effective storytelling.

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Old 11-26-2009, 06:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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Doomsday was badass man, only man to kill Superman EVER!!!!...He has to be the best villian Superman faced.
This is why the Death of Superman arc featuring Doomsday NEEDS to be made into a feature film at some point after a origin reboot.

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Old 11-26-2009, 06:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
He was depowered in STAS.
Anyway, good points SuperMike, but after so many movies that we barely feared for his life, it wouldnt be bad if Brainiac comes and kicks his ass a little bit. I'd like to see a huge battle all over Metropolis, through buildings, using cars, light poles, etc...
I think they should use the S:TAS power level. I also would use a magic based villian or two.

I've always thought it would be neat if, when the time comes for Superman to fight a Braniac or Darskseid, that he tries to tussle like a farmboy more so than fist fight with all kinds of martial arts-esque moves. I mean, how much experience does Clark Kent have when it comes to fighting, not a whole lot. A Braniac or Doomsday on the other hand would know hand to hand combat.

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Old 11-26-2009, 06:50 PM   #19
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This is why the Death of Superman arc featuring Doomsday NEEDS to be made into a feature film at some point after a origin reboot.
I hate that story. The villain is just a monster that hits harder than Superman. Big deal. Not to mention that if you kill Superman only to bring him back with scifi mambo jambo like in the Death of Superman nobody will watch the movie.


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I think they should use the S:TAS power level. I also would use a magic based villian or two.

I've always thought it would be neat if, when the time comes for Superman to fight a Braniac or Darskseid, that he tries to tussle like a farmboy more so than fist fight with all kinds of martial arts-esque moves. I mean, how much experience does Clark Kent have when it comes to fighting, not a whole lot. A Braniac or Doomsday on the other hand would know hand to hand combat.
Superman doesnt know much about fighting, especially in his first years. Through experience in it he learns some moves but nothing too fancy and later on when he is stripped of his powers for a while Batman trains him.

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Old 11-27-2009, 01:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

yea its really up to the writers on how they want to do any tensions in a story. I agree it should be either through villain or the threats a villain causes and supes wonders if he can stop it in time and all that.

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Old 11-27-2009, 03:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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Originally Posted by SuperMike335!! View Post
1. Yes a Villain on his level would help a lot.

Sure he can have a fight with a Badguy on his level, or that brings him donw to their level. Parasite, Livewire, Metallo, and a long list of others can have good fights with Superman.


2. The audience does not need to feel tension for Superman's life, they just need to feel tension. This can be for other humans that he has to save.

There is a hostage situation, with bombs set to go off if someone enters the motion field. Will he be fast enough to save the people inside as the bombs start to go off? - that is drama and tension, even if we are not thinking about Superman dying, someone else may be at risk, and his dramatic momment is to save them.

There are some situations where a ton of power and being indestructable are of little help. Even his speed when he cannot be everywhere at once is not going to fix the situation, and he still has to use his head.

Keep in mind, this is Not DragonBallZ where he just shows up and fights the bad guy.
This.

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Old 11-27-2009, 04:13 PM   #22
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This is why the Death of Superman arc featuring Doomsday NEEDS to be made into a feature film at some point after a origin reboot.
Agreed.

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Old 11-27-2009, 04:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lack Of Tension?

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
Does anyone think this is a problem with superman films and for the future that they lack any tension at all.How can an audience feel like Supes is in any danger when he can take anything but kryptonite.Similar to how Dr. Manhattan was never in danger in Watchmen how can the audience fear for his life when he is virtually indestructible.

whats the solution a Villain on his level perhaps ?
Well, thats just it, Superman has evolved into a GOD... which should have never happen. Unless a writer has the fortitude & foresight to depower Superman in order to explore real vulnerabilities(otherthan Kryptonite); he will always suffer from the real sense of tension that come with life & death situations, decisions, and human spirit of self-preservation.

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Old 11-27-2009, 08:25 PM   #24
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Well, thats just it, Superman has evolved into a GOD... which should have never happen. Unless a writer has the fortitude & foresight to depower Superman in order to explore real vulnerabilities(otherthan Kryptonite); he will always suffer from the real sense of tension that come with life & death situations, decisions, and human spirit of self-preservation.
Superman isnt only vulnerable to Kryptonite. He is also vulnerable to magic, to red sun radiation, to Parasite's power sucking powers, and to getting beat up by very powerful villains such as those found in his rogues gallery (brainiac, mongul, darkseid, metallo, etc). He doesnt need to be depowered since his rogues gallery and his stories are appropriate for his powers. Its not like he is fighting the Penguin.
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This is why the Death of Superman arc featuring Doomsday NEEDS to be made into a feature film at some point after a origin reboot.
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Agreed.
Can someone explain to me why this story is so popular? Its a **** story about a monster with no story and no personality hitting harder that the hero and managing to kill him. Then a bunch of wannabes take his place until through some mambo jumbo science he comes back. Whatever.

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Old 11-27-2009, 08:37 PM   #25
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^ Death is crap. Return is fairly enjoyable and to its credit gave us John Henry and Connor.

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