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Old 12-26-2009, 06:08 AM   #1
db85usa
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Default I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

WARNING: Long post but keep in mind it's just my opinion(s) and not a hate thread.

Look at Superman... One of the most iconic and beloved comic book superheroes of all-time. That was then. What's happening now? His popularity has dwindled significantly and why? Who's to blame? DC? WB? Bryan Singer? Richard Donner? Christopher Reeve for Superman 3 and IV? I mean, really where do we point the finger at Superman's downfall? It's obvious people that Superman is not huge anymore to a lot of people. Sure he's a favorite among a lot of us that grew up watching the movies or by reading the comics.

Growing up, I watched Superman: The Movie almost EVERY day. I had a Superman action figure that my Dad picked up at some shop at an airport before he left San Diego, California. It was the single greatest toy I ever had. He bought two in case one of them broke and eventually it did -- Due to excessive wear and tear! And then my second Superman got stolen. This was a one of a kind, rare Superman action figure that soon got discontinued and I loved that damn toy!

I loved Superman: The Movie and Superman II as a kid growing up. I watched both of them religiously! I wasn't a very big fan of Superman III. I only watched it a few times and that was it. Still, to this day, I'm not connected to Superman on an emotional level in III as I was/am in S:TM and S II. And don't get me started on The Quest For Peace.

I have a three year old boy who is so in love with Justice League. He has fallen in love with the DC Universe. He is a major Superman fan, Green Lantern fan, but his favorite is Batman. And I know he shouldn't watch them but he does watch Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and is obsessed with them. He loves everything there is about Batman. I tried to get him to watch Superman Returns but he just couldn't relax and sit still and enjoy it and would get distracted from it.

When I was doing Christmas shopping, I was lucky enough to find a toy set with a medium sized Superman, Batman, Two-Face, Catwoman action figures! And this was his favorite present out of all his presents that he got from family and it was a lot. But he's glued to his Batman and Superman toys!

Moving on... Years went by (too many) where we did not get a Superman film. I was excited to hear Tim Burton was making a film called "Superman Lives" starring Nicholas Cage. Look, I know that had bad idea written all over it! But I didn't care. Superman is Superman to me. I was just happy to hear that a new movie would be in the making (we all know what happened though.)

And I really think back then, fans complained so much about Cage taking the part and that Burton would destroy the character. So we should be glad we didn't see his vision for Superman. Before Superman Returns was announced. I would visit this site and see so many fans' ideas for scripts and their own cast. Who should play Kal-El, Superman, and Clark. Who should play Lois Lane, Perry White, Lex Luthor, or other villains would be involved. I read and heard so many rumors, lies, and ideas that it got old. It literally got old.

Then there was J.J. Abrams script. I can remember back then when it first came out there was some kind of review on AICN, and it was pretty much argued about for a long time and a lot of fans were 50/50 on the idea. Now, after we've seen Returns. I've seen a lot of people go back and say, "You know what, Abrams' idea wouldn't have been as bad as Singer's."

Realistically speaking, we fans, that love the character Superman have no control on how a movie involving the character should be displayed in a motion picture. We have no creative control. Bottom line. Or do we? In the past, was it because there were "insiders" who knew some things that most of us did not? Therefore, creating a rumor.

I noticed before Returns was announced a lot of people supported the idea of Kevin Spacey playing Lex Luthor and in my opinion, I was never for Spacey playing Luthor and even now as I look back on the film. He just... isn't Lex Luthor to me. I know they wanted to try something different and bravo for that but Hackman's Luthor... Now that's a real villain. Comedic, sure. But when the ***** hit the fan and Hackman's voice came on... That Luthor truly was Superman's weakness. Not Kryptonite! Nothing but Lex Luthor. That was a guy that could stand face to face with Superman and KNOW how to push him to the extreme (see Earthquake scene in S:TM and Supes getting pissed, flying into outerspace.)

We know Bryan Singer was trying to create Superman 2.5 (taking place somewhere after II and between III) while this idea might have been good back then, if we look at it today... Did it work out the way that we thought it would? Obviously not, if Singer is no longer attached to the project. Again, maybe the fans had something to do with that. I mean it was us who went to the theaters to see the movie and a lot of us had high expectations. I can say, I was so psyched to see the movie and so was my Dad. We went together and when it was over. His reaction was "It was okay." Mine was more or less the same. There were some scenes that were just beautiful. Some great cinematography involved, and a solid score at times.

But I wanted more. I didn't feel satisfied. I didn't see anything I didn't expect. I knew right away the little kid was Superman's. I knew what Lex wanted to do. I knew this was just a Donner rehash of the first and second movie (which it was) and if so, why would we, I, or anyone else expect ANYTHING different since it was a Donner/Reeve tribute?

All in all, really, it is time for a change. There can never be another origin story. Enough. Quit trying to reintroduce the character to the young adults, teens, kids, that don't know enough about Superman as those who grew up watching him, reading about him in the 70's and 80's. It's a new time, a new generation. There does need to be new blood, new villains, new plots rather than Superman saving a kitten out of a tree or rescuing Lois from disastrous situations 24/7. I want to see Superman CHALLENGED again against all odds.

Bryan Singer truly ruined everything I loved and believed in about the character. There were a lot of things I didn't agree with in his vision. It was different/new but trying to turn one of the greatest superheroes of all-time into a big soft cry baby just doesn't cut it. Imagine if Arnold was an emotional Terminator in T2 and was a wussy. Would that have worked? I think you know the answer. We fans, we do put pressure on WB IMO and the actors, the writers, everybody. Superman fans demand perfection and want it done THEIR way.

Look at the Star Trek reboot. I LOVED that movie. J.J. Abrams... Here's a guy who rebooted the franchise with his own ideas, his own twists, with superb action, and an all-around solid cast! (I'm a spec-screenwriter/indie filmmaker myself) and I can tell you one thing... The movies that make the most money and the ones that appeal to audiences are the ones that have BALANCE. What exactly does that mean?

Take The Dark Knight for example. It has amazing action sequences, great dialogue, great acting, great music, great atmospheres, drama, suspense, even psychological scenes, a great cast. You've got Christian Bale, Heath Ledger, Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Maggie Gyllenhaal, Aaron Eckhart. Do you see the balance in that cast? It was put together quite well. These are the movies that make the $$$. Balance.

Anytime you can achieve balance with a movie that has a large fan base, you're going to attract outsiders as well. We fans need the next person in control to do just that. Let them do what they want to do. Instead of us saying "Cast Routh as Superman" or I won't watch it. We can't demand what we want. But IMO we do need something different and new. A reboot would suffice. A whole new take on the Superman universe. I would refer a quote to Bryan Singer and WB from The Dark Knight per Joker. "There's no going back... You've changed things... Forever."

Am I saying Routh shouldn't play the role again? No, I'm not. However, I was iffy on his acting skills (not sure if you can call it that) in Superman Returns. It was bland, dull, and nothing really exciting. Kind of like when you sometimes receive a flat soda drink that you get at a fast food joint after you leave the drive-in. It just didn't work for me. I didn't "see" Superman. I saw a young guy wearing the suit (an ugly one at that). Someone who looked like a Christopher Reeve impersonator.

But the point here is this, sometimes we fans have a job to do and that's to give the people who control Superman (possibly in the near future) to give them breathing room and let them handle the direction of the franchise instead of trying to be a bunch of casting directors or musical composers. Instead of complaining about John Williams Superman theme, let the next composer DO HIS THING. See Hans Zimmer / James Newton Howard (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight.) I look at the posts now, what do you want to see in the sequel, what don't you want to see, what actors do you want, the list goes on! It's a merry-go-around all over again like it was before Superman Returns.

In the end, a reboot can and WILL work but I think the Superman fans (which are the best there is because all the nitpicking we do shows our passion for the character and story) we can appreciate a new take on the character, a new story, new villains, new music, new cast. It could be bigger and better than anything we've ever imagined. We could finally see Superman in some super-fight's. We could see him be challenged to the breaking point.

There are endless opportunities and I hope WB, who ever, decides that this would be the right move because it's the only way it will appeal to the average movie goer. And that's what movies are all about to these distributions, the directors, the actors, the film composers, editors, everyone. It's all about the greenery! A reboot is the best way to ensure that happens. Because I think it will put a lot of butts in the seats.

But the problem is, it's all too soon and by the time they want to make a new Superman movie, Routh might very well be too old to be recast. I do think they need to get things going in 2011 as that will be 5 years since Superman Returns. That's 1,825 days fresh out of people's minds. The one's that didn't approve of SR and Bryan Singer. Someone like me.

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Old 12-26-2009, 08:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

You can blame W.B. for greenlighting ever single superman film that did (and didn't) get made.
I have no problem with either on origin or an established superman film ( as long as its no relation to Donner's take)
If it were left up to me, and I had a choice of which I could make, i'd do an older (age, early to mid 30's) superman film.
I'd Do the origin in the opening credits C.B. style. Have flashbacks of his past encounters in the opening credits as well.
Show a page with him facing Bizarro, one of him and metallo facing off, ect ect. Then i'd jump right into the meat of it.
Villains? Brainiac in the first with Lex (corrupt businessman Lex) in the background trying as always to take advantage of a situation...

Again, either film would be fine.

B.S. heart was in the right place, but IMO he underestimated what people wanted to see. The film he made was more suited for the late 70's, not the 2000's.
For better or worse people want a nonstop action ride now, especially in films like Superman.

People laugh at geeks like us, but we are a pretty good judge on if a film will be a success or not. If we hate a film, then its a pretty good bet that the public wont take to it either. That's not always so, but more times than not its true.

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Old 12-26-2009, 08:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

There's a lot I have to say in response to this, but pretty much everything can be summed up in Spooneys review of Returns verbatim. Basically, after the first two movies I believe they made Superman unfilmable because he's simply to powerful in the films. Really in general as well. Part of the best aspect of Crisis on Infinte Earths was the depowering of such a infallible character. Returns further proves my point with the way he threw a continent of Kryptonite off the Earth. There's no suspense to the character nor anything to relate to on a human level.

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Old 12-26-2009, 01:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

you brought up very well thought out views on things. Which i agree with you on alot of them. Hopefully if/when the next group of people get on board for superman. They can bring him to higher places, get the BO figures the studio wants. And pleases fans and non fans alike.

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Old 12-26-2009, 05:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Webhead that's the key to the next film IMO, they really need to hit it off well with non-superman fans just like The Dark Knight did when so many non fans of Batman truly enjoyed the film itself and found it to be entertaining. Like me, with the Star Trek reboot... I never watched any of the Star Trek films. I couldn't get into them but this movie got my attention and so I gave it a chance that was really worth it in the end!

I agree with Sloth that Superman was very powerful in the first two films but there are still sides of him we have yet to see. We really haven't seen Superman in a serious fight except for the Zod battle in Superman II... I will not include SIII or "Nuclear Man" in this whatsoever lol.

GreenK makes some good points and views also. The idea of flashbacks and jumping into the heat of the battle does remind me a bit of J.J. Abrams script (wasn't it called Flyby or something?) Anyway, I just recall reading a flashback and him fighting some super kryptonian villain like Zod.

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Old 12-26-2009, 06:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by db85usa
Imagine if Arnold was an emotional Terminator in T2 and was a wussy.
He was still the powerful, butt-kicking cyborg we knew from the first film - anything but wussy. But I feel he did show more human emotion in T2 because he was reprogrammed to protect Sarah and John rather than kill them.

And I'm sorry, but Superman lifting a ginormous landmass knowing it was filled with Kryptonite, or rescuing a space plane in crisis with many more people on board than the helicopter scene in STM, constitutes being "wussy"? So what if Brandon's Supes didn't throw a punch - that wasn't the plot of SR.

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Old 12-27-2009, 12:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

well hopefully the next folk on board can find that right balance for the film to please the comic fans and include stuff we want to see in a superman film. Then like trek did find ways to make it open for non fans/general audiences.

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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He was still the powerful, butt-kicking cyborg we knew from the first film - anything but wussy. But I feel he did show more human emotion in T2 because he was reprogrammed to protect Sarah and John rather than kill them.

And I'm sorry, but Superman lifting a ginormous landmass knowing it was filled with Kryptonite, or rescuing a space plane in crisis with many more people on board than the helicopter scene in STM, constitutes being "wussy"? So what if Brandon's Supes didn't throw a punch - that wasn't the plot of SR.
Well the plot for Superman Returns sucked! Why couldn't he have thrown a punch in that mpovie, shouldn't a Superman movie have some action in it? Superman just lifting things for the whole movie is very dull.

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Old 12-27-2009, 10:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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And I'm sorry, but Superman lifting a ginormous landmass knowing it was filled with Kryptonite
Someone mentioned Antwiler's review of Returns earlier, which brought up a good point, somewhat relevant to what has screwed up Superman to public perception; there is a misconception that Superman is invulnerable to anything outside of the little dramatic convenience that is Kryptonite, thus effectively killing any kind of tension that could be created when the stakes are raised. Anyone who knows Superman's history in the comic books knows this isn't the case and anyone who ever followed any super-hero character (especially the A-list ones) knows that there is no such thing as tension caused by way of physical harm coming to them, because they'll always shrug it off eventually (even if that physical harm is death).

But if that misconception hurts Superman so much (and, make no mistake, it does), Returns only excacerbated it by having him arbitrarily overcome even the one thing he was consistently vulnerable to. So while Superman in SR might not have been a 'wussie', a valid physical struggle with him and an enemy, which eventually led to them coming to blows would've had infinitely better results to his credibility. It would be both more fun to watch and it would show that he actually had to drop to that level to deal with an imminent threat.

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Old 12-28-2009, 05:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Originally Posted by NeoRanger View Post
Someone mentioned Antwiler's review of Returns earlier, which brought up a good point, somewhat relevant to what has screwed up Superman to public perception; there is a misconception that Superman is invulnerable to anything outside of the little dramatic convenience that is Kryptonite, thus effectively killing any kind of tension that could be created when the stakes are raised. Anyone who knows Superman's history in the comic books knows this isn't the case and anyone who ever followed any super-hero character (especially the A-list ones) knows that there is no such thing as tension caused by way of physical harm coming to them, because they'll always shrug it off eventually (even if that physical harm is death).

But if that misconception hurts Superman so much (and, make no mistake, it does), Returns only excacerbated it by having him arbitrarily overcome even the one thing he was consistently vulnerable to. So while Superman in SR might not have been a 'wussie', a valid physical struggle with him and an enemy, which eventually led to them coming to blows would've had infinitely better results to his credibility. It would be both more fun to watch and it would show that he actually had to drop to that level to deal with an imminent threat.
True, i've been following Superman for years, the original movie was the film for me as a kid in the 80's - i actually loved Superman 4 because of Nuclear Man. Now, sure, it's a shoddy fim, but it had comic elements and in theory should have been a great film - my brothers thought when Superman flew his suit turned green (due to the cheap FX).

Anyways, point in hand, Superman was too brooding, too many long shots of landscape and akward silences. After 50 mins, we were treated tot he airplane scene and then had supes stalking Lois. Most flying shots were at night, it was just, too depressing in my mind.

I studied Media, so i have a fair idea of film, but i'm no critic, but what i feel is needed, is a reboot. They need to say they are rebooting the franchise - call Returns a one off idea.

Keep the Superman theme tune, that film just has so much light and warmth to it. Take a few risks with superman, the suit, the way metropolis is portrayed - even the origins.

My idea for a superman film, again, i don't know it all, but have three things going on. Lex Luthor is a sub plot - he is involved in genetics, using this as the platform to get Mayor of Metropolis. It's a controversial subject that is opposed to by lois and here it gives perfect opp. to allow us to see lois and clark and various staff do actually reporting, in a superman film. Lex is a crook, they want to expose him, in the end, luthor pays off daily planet to keep quiet - it's a recession and they need the money, Perry doesn't want to do it, but hey, it's politics right?

2ndly, in a world gripped in recession, massive depression, how do they all take to a Superman? At first, i'd have it, so it's only vague sightings, supes keeps it on low down. The internet forums are packed with supporters, ey witnesses, pictures but it's deemed as a hoax, until one day, an event happens when Supes has to choose, get invovled and be revealed, or let it slide and let humans deal with it, maybe like 9/11, but no way as significant - if there was a superman around, what would he have done - neverless, he does intervene, save the day and is revealed tot he world.
What do governments say? They invite him in for talks and sign a super hero agreement, to say no harm will come to each other.

3rdly, his origins. I'm 26 years old, if i suddenly started flying and wearing glasses as a disguise, people i knew back at school etc would blataintly know it's me.
If a space ship was headed to earth and landed in the early 80's, the government and general star gazers would know about it. In returns, you're telling me in 2006 we are to beleive a ship could exit and orbit earth without getting detected?

Supes in my mind, enters earth through a time hole, worm hole, what ever you'd like to call it.

Kryptonians have used earth for centuries for scientific research - the fortress of solitude is an abandoned scientific research lab, deep within the caves.

Myths of greek gods, are kryptonian - hercules anyone? Who built ancient lands? interesting theory in my mind.

When you strip Superman to his core - sent to earth as baby, from a dying planet, grows up to have powers and has dual identity.. if you keep that format, added with a strong cast, you'll be fine.

I loved Batman 89. If you told me they would reboot, have Bruce go travel, learn an ancient for of self defense etc, then have him defeat the scare crow, with a suit that is more body armour than costume i'd be like... meh, rubbish - but we all know where that went.

I went and read Red Son and was suprised by the similarity between red son and my idea, i definitly think Red Son had some great, fresh ideas.

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Old 12-28-2009, 12:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Totally there is so much you could do with the character of superman and his vast supporting cast/villains. It just really sucks they the studio cant figure out what is the best way to go about it and get it moving.

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Old 12-28-2009, 04:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Well, I didn't read that whole thing. Could you sum it up in a few sentences? The gist, I think, is that we destroyed Superman's legacy because we're nitpicky?

Well, I don't think Superman's legacy is destroyed. And I don't think WB is actually worrying about fans being nitpicky. WB is going to do what ever they want. They took a risk with Returns and it missed the mark. WB's problem is they are thinking in terms of how to get as many people as possible into the seats.

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Old 12-28-2009, 05:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Well, I didn't read that whole thing. Could you sum it up in a few sentences? The gist, I think, is that we destroyed Superman's legacy because we're nitpicky?

Well, I don't think Superman's legacy is destroyed. And I don't think WB is actually worrying about fans being nitpicky. WB is going to do what ever they want. They took a risk with Returns and it missed the mark. WB's problem is they are thinking in terms of how to get as many people as possible into the seats.
You should read the entire post if you're going to post, lol..

I can agree WB is thinking how they can get people into the seats to watch the next Superman movie. I really, really believe they need to show a new version of Superman. Maybe he has to be a little darker? Maybe not. Maybe it just should be more about action, fighting, lots of flying, super battles, balanced with a good plot. Who knows...

I just don't want to see this thing stuck in development hell again and put on a shelf for 10 more years. It took nearly two decades for a new Superman movie to come out after the god awful Quest For Peace. 20 years is a long time... It SHOULD have been a reboot then but you're right, WB messed up and now they have to live with the successful failure of Superman Returns.

I think I was shocked just as much as the SR crew when Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest absolutely destroyed Superman Returns in the box office. I expected SR to be huge and pull in big $$$ but then again something told me it would be on par with Batman Begins... Which it was.

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Old 12-28-2009, 06:48 PM   #14
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I'm sorry, but that was a really long post with a lot of backstory. I'm just curious what specifically the fans have done to destroy Superman's legacy. Or why you think the legacy is destroyed in the first place.

I'm worried about what WB will do. Revenge of the Fallen has shown that you can make a lot of money out of a mindless action flick with a crappy story. I hope they don't swing the pendulum the other way from Returns.

I didn't mind returns except for some big issues. Making it a psuedo-sequal, and giving lois a child.

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Old 12-28-2009, 09:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Well the plot for Superman Returns sucked! Why couldn't he have thrown a punch in that mpovie, shouldn't a Superman movie have some action in it? Superman just lifting things for the whole movie is very dull.
I already mentioned the space plane sequence. Plus, there was the earthquake and New Krypton.

Oh, and take a guess how many punches Reeve threw in STM. None. Zero. The only action he performed which could be considered 'violent' was lifting Lex up by his collar ("Where's the detonator?"). And his Supes did an awful lot of lifting as well - the helicopter sequence; lifting and pushing tons of rock and boulders to quell the damage caused by the earthquake; and pushing the eastbound rocket into space.

Jump ahead to SII and SIII (and even SIV to an extent), and his battles were far more physical, but only because his opponents were his equal in terms of powers and strength: Zod, Non, Ursa, the evil Supes, and yes, Nuclear Man.

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Old 12-28-2009, 10:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

hopefully they will be able to find the right balance of a good story, and good action.

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Old 12-29-2009, 07:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

We didnt ruin anything. Returns was a letdown. They had to the potential to make it good,instead they made it like the first,only very weak...WHY?

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Old 12-29-2009, 07:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

But once again people have to understand despite what the fans felt towards Superman Returns; a sequel was happening and should have happened last year had Bryan Singer not taken on a large film (Valkyire) and stuck to a smaller film as stated before. Remember even though the comic book fan base was split on the movie; the general public pretty much liked it and the WB viewed the movie in the same category as Batman Begins. Where they saw it made some money and felt it could do better with a sequel. However when Singer went on to do Valkyrie (which did in turn piss the WB off) things changed and we got to see all that play out. But before hand and even during Valkyrie there was suppose to be a sequel. But then that movie took longer then expect and you had the writers strike and then the lawsuit that is pretty much why we are at this point right now. Not because SR failed. That's why I have to laugh when fans say there is no sequel because Superman Returns sucked and failed when that is far from the case. Ask anyone who had inside info on the movie the problem was not the fans reaction the problem was Singer took on a another huge project when he said he wasn't going to then having little to no contact with the WB. He was suppose to do a movie like Nolan's The Prestige. In which Nolan during filming stayed in contact with the WB and was doing pre-production work for the Dark Knight. Singer did neither which started off a chain reaction of events that lead us to this state.

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Old 12-29-2009, 02:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

i do wish superman returns wasnt what we saw. Personally it would have been great if it was a reboot/new start for superman like batman got. But now all we can do is hope when ever superman does get into production stage again they dont make the same mistakes over again and find the right balance needed for this character/type of film.

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Old 12-29-2009, 02:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Superman should never be dark, but the villain should be. Imagine Superman facing an enemy that thinks no more of humans than we do ants. Darkseid for instance.
He is as powerful, maybe moreso, than Superman.
Imagine him invading earth to make it his new planet and he finds it infested with humans.
He would wipe out humans like we do flies. The only thing standing between us and Darkseid would be Superman.

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Old 12-30-2009, 02:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I think it's really sad that there is such inactivity with superman right now. They've done an awesome job with the new batman movies, and I'm incredibly excited for the green lantern, the first dc movie besides batman and superman.

Superman has really incredible potential for a blockbuster hit though. It needs to be full of action and drama, and some of the best action sequences ever.

They could do really well with a braniac like we saw in red son (my favorite interpretation of the character) and bizarro and metallo. Of course we have to have luthor, but he should always be a man behind the scenes driving things. We've seen enough of him in the movies. Superman has a fantastic rogues gallery that desperately needs more exposure.

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Fans did not destroy Superman or his legacy. Fans have been nitpicky about things since the beginning of time, but that doesnt stop a thing. Look at the Batman franchise, ppl like it but every one has these nitpicky gripes about it.
The ones who ruined it are WB who can't get a film right because they don't know what they want as a studio.

I know WB has a lot of franchises like Looney Tunes, Harry Potter, and more, but what they do to non Batman DC film franchises is ridiculous.

1. They dont know what they want. Back in 2005 Goyer had a Flash script. They labeled it too dark and Goyer left due to creative differences. Now all DC wants to do is make their films darker.

2. Look at when the JL/JLU cartoon was on TV and was popular with kids and adults. Wouldn't that have been a good chance to release alot of live action DC films? When Pirates of the Caribbean came out wouldnt that have been a cool time to drop maybe Aquaman? Nope, no films.

3. DC also doesnt have faith in non Batman properties. Look at GL film. Early rumors were Chris Pine, Shawn Roberts, and Sam Worthington, three up and coming actors. THen look at the final 5 choices. Reynolds (who got the role), Bradley Cooper, Michael Fassabender, Henry Cavill and Justin Timberlake. Eventually the final 3 were brought down to Reynolds, Cooper, and Timberlake. And I'm not saying Reynolds or Cooper are bad actors for Hal (JT was decent in Alpha Dog, but all wrong for GL) but I do definetly think that they all were chosen along with Timberlake, who is just a popular name,because they both were stars of the summer not soley on their abilities. In contrast to GL look who was considered for Batman for BB.



What DC needs to do is get past this lawsuit, which isnt their fault, get someone in charge of DC films that knows who to get to make a good Superman film along with other big DC characters, and someone wwho has faith in them enough to not always just casting whoever is a big name at the time


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Old 12-30-2009, 12:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate_Superman View Post
But once again people have to understand despite what the fans felt towards Superman Returns; a sequel was happening and should have happened last year had Bryan Singer not taken on a large film (Valkyire) and stuck to a smaller film as stated before. Remember even though the comic book fan base was split on the movie; the general public pretty much liked it and the WB viewed the movie in the same category as Batman Begins. Where they saw it made some money and felt it could do better with a sequel. However when Singer went on to do Valkyrie (which did in turn piss the WB off) things changed and we got to see all that play out. But before hand and even during Valkyrie there was suppose to be a sequel. But then that movie took longer then expect and you had the writers strike and then the lawsuit that is pretty much why we are at this point right now. Not because SR failed. That's why I have to laugh when fans say there is no sequel because Superman Returns sucked and failed when that is far from the case. Ask anyone who had inside info on the movie the problem was not the fans reaction the problem was Singer took on a another huge project when he said he wasn't going to then having little to no contact with the WB. He was suppose to do a movie like Nolan's The Prestige. In which Nolan during filming stayed in contact with the WB and was doing pre-production work for the Dark Knight. Singer did neither which started off a chain reaction of events that lead us to this state.

Agreed. Finally, the voice of reason.

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Old 12-30-2009, 12:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

But where would a sequel to SR gone storywise?
Honestly Sr left almost no room for a sequel.

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Old 12-30-2009, 03:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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But where would a sequel to SR gone storywise?
Honestly Sr left almost no room for a sequel.
OH yes it did. A sequel if done right could have opened up a whole new world for Superman much like how Last Son did for him in the comics or like how Batman and son did for Batman in the comics. Remember DC has been trying to give Superman a child since Lois and Clark (TV Series). The only real issue with a sequel in my mind would be how to put Lois and Clark together without making Superman look like a home wrecker and that would be tough IMO. But anything else the skys the limit. For example you could have had Mongul come to Earth from Superman meeting him while going to Krypton or Brainiac come to Earth after discovering New Krypton, etc. There is room for a sequel the hard part is as I said before was getting fans to warm up to how Jason was done and putting Lois and Clark together.

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