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Old 12-30-2009, 04:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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But once again people have to understand despite what the fans felt towards Superman Returns; a sequel was happening and should have happened last year had Bryan Singer not taken on a large film (Valkyire) and stuck to a smaller film as stated before. Remember even though the comic book fan base was split on the movie; the general public pretty much liked it and the WB viewed the movie in the same category as Batman Begins. Where they saw it made some money and felt it could do better with a sequel. However when Singer went on to do Valkyrie (which did in turn piss the WB off) things changed and we got to see all that play out. But before hand and even during Valkyrie there was suppose to be a sequel. But then that movie took longer then expect and you had the writers strike and then the lawsuit that is pretty much why we are at this point right now. Not because SR failed. That's why I have to laugh when fans say there is no sequel because Superman Returns sucked and failed when that is far from the case. Ask anyone who had inside info on the movie the problem was not the fans reaction the problem was Singer took on a another huge project when he said he wasn't going to then having little to no contact with the WB. He was suppose to do a movie like Nolan's The Prestige. In which Nolan during filming stayed in contact with the WB and was doing pre-production work for the Dark Knight. Singer did neither which started off a chain reaction of events that lead us to this state.
Well done sir!

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OH yes it did. A sequel if done right could have opened up a whole new world for Superman much like how Last Son did for him in the comics or like how Batman and son did for Batman in the comics. Remember DC has been trying to give Superman a child since Lois and Clark (TV Series). The only real issue with a sequel in my mind would be how to put Lois and Clark together without making Superman look like a home wrecker and that would be tough IMO. But anything else the skys the limit. For example you could have had Mongul come to Earth from Superman meeting him while going to Krypton or Brainiac come to Earth after discovering New Krypton, etc. There is room for a sequel the hard part is as I said before was getting fans to warm up to how Jason was done and putting Lois and Clark together.
I even felt this could be done in a classy way without making Superman or any character look bad. I mean SR pretty much laid it out that Richard knew Lois was still in love with Superman.

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Old 12-30-2009, 05:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Well hopefully when the whole copyright thing is settled they can with the new DCE stuff try and get things really in the right places for everything.

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Old 12-30-2009, 05:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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But once again people have to understand despite what the fans felt towards Superman Returns; a sequel was happening and should have happened last year had Bryan Singer not taken on a large film (Valkyire) and stuck to a smaller film as stated before. Remember even though the comic book fan base was split on the movie; the general public pretty much liked it and the WB viewed the movie in the same category as Batman Begins. Where they saw it made some money and felt it could do better with a sequel. However when Singer went on to do Valkyrie (which did in turn piss the WB off) things changed and we got to see all that play out. But before hand and even during Valkyrie there was suppose to be a sequel. But then that movie took longer then expect and you had the writers strike and then the lawsuit that is pretty much why we are at this point right now. Not because SR failed. That's why I have to laugh when fans say there is no sequel because Superman Returns sucked and failed when that is far from the case. Ask anyone who had inside info on the movie the problem was not the fans reaction the problem was Singer took on a another huge project when he said he wasn't going to then having little to no contact with the WB. He was suppose to do a movie like Nolan's The Prestige. In which Nolan during filming stayed in contact with the WB and was doing pre-production work for the Dark Knight. Singer did neither which started off a chain reaction of events that lead us to this state.
I agree but I still think that the lower than expected boxoffice numbers led to it's ruin.

WB kept turning down the writers pitches for the sequel and ultimately the writers were let go. It was obvious that Bryan Singer wasn't going to have as much freedom with a sequel so he got cold feet and stalled then walked away from the project.

Ultimately I think that the lower than expected boxoffice numbers did play a role in a sequel not coming about. Not to mention the decent but not eye poping DVD sales.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:24 PM   #29
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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I agree but I still think that the lower than expected boxoffice numbers led to it's ruin.

WB kept turning down the writers pitches for the sequel and ultimately the writers were let go. It was obvious that Bryan Singer wasn't going to have as much freedom with a sequel so he got cold feet and stalled then walked away from the project.

Ultimately I think that the lower than expected boxoffice numbers did play a role in a sequel not coming about. Not to mention the decent but not eye poping DVD sales.
Not true had Singer done what he was suppose to and taken on a smaller project I think we would have had a sequel with him having total control much like how Nolan did for the Dark Knight. However him doing what he did I think played a huge part into where we are. For example what people like to over look Justice League the treatment that started the whole thing really brought Superman Returns and Batman Begins together and was not suppose to be a reboot for both films as it later turned into and Singer's Superman sequel was suppose to lead into it (well that's what the WB wanted). But I am saying the movie was about to get the same treatment as Nolan got for the Dark Knight it was just Valkyrie that set off a chain event and killed it. It's a shame IMO because it looked like how Superman: The Movie and X-Men (first movie) was where they set you up for something big and you could see the ground work especailly if you read the shooting script (Which once again everything in that was shot for the movie but ended up on the cutting floor). I think a sequel would have been epic but we will never know.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

The writers pitches were turned down and then they mysteriously "left." Code for, let go.

It's obvious that they were gearing up to make a sequel because they did sign him but there were also signs that they weren't going to give him total freedom over the next movie.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:29 PM   #31
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Well hopefully when the whole copyright thing is settled they can with the new DCE stuff try and get things really in the right places for everything.
Really I would like to how Earth One does if it does well I wouldn't mind seeing the new movie based off of that. Hell I always though JMS should have done a story treatment for a Superman movie. I mean I don't blame him for what happened to Spider-Man (in the comics) and I won't after I saw him come out and pubicly state he did not approve of what they wer doing to him and wanted his name off the comic. And I hope Spider-Man's sells continue to drop till they undo OMD.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:32 PM   #32
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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The writers pitches were turned down and then they mysteriously "left." Code for, let go.

It's obvious that they were gearing up to make a sequel because they did sign him but there were also signs that they weren't going to give him total freedom over the next movie.
I think it had more to do with egos then anything. When Singer pitched Superman he didn't just pitch SR he did a treatment for a sequel as well. By the time they got to sit down and talk about a sequel you had the whole JL:M thing happening and the writers talk and Singer being AWOL for a few months now. I think it had more to do egos then anything else. The only person truly gone was Kate.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:37 PM   #33
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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I think it had more to do with egos then anything. When Singer pitched Superman he didn't just pitch SR he did a treatment for a sequel as well. By the time they got to sit down and talk about a sequel you had the whole JL:M thing happening and the writers talk and Singer being AWOL for a few months now. I think it had more to do egos then anything else. The only person truly gone was Kate.
Egos always have something to do with it in hollywood but I still think that the lack of boxoffice played a part in the sequel not coming about. Yes, he pissed Warner Brothers off when he went to do that Tom Cruise is german movie and yes I think that played a role but I think that WB wouldn't have been nearly as pissed at him if Superman Returns made Iron Man money.

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Old 12-30-2009, 06:45 PM   #34
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

oh totally jms seems like a cool guy and i did love his tv show from the 90s. Sure i didnt agree with alot of his last few yrs on asm but i know it was more joe Q mendling and all that. Though i do like a variety of stuff in the omd + stories, and most of the writers on board. Do i agree with how they did things for the end of omd no. But currently i like how certain things are.

As for superman personally you all know how i felt towards SR. I want to see a clear and defined new reboot with new setting, story, feel, tone, etc.....

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Old 12-30-2009, 07:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Egos always have something to do with it in hollywood but I still think that the lack of boxoffice played a part in the sequel not coming about. Yes, he pissed Warner Brothers off when he went to do that Tom Cruise is german movie and yes I think that played a role but I think that WB wouldn't have been nearly as pissed at him if Superman Returns made Iron Man money.

IMO, I definitely think what Ultimate said is the main reason why the sequel didn't go through and the deciding factor. Though I believe, just as you do, that the box office had a bit to do with it as well, except I just don't think it's as big a reason as some fans try to make it out to be. There's a lot of revisionist history about this franchise.

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Old 12-30-2009, 08:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I think how well Green Lantern does will determine if Superman gets a new movie soon.

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Old 12-31-2009, 12:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Gl probably is going to be a testing of things. If gl does well with general movie goers and have a good BO return it would probably favor in wb willing to greenlit other characters more quickly. But if it bombs which i hope it doesnt, wb might be very leery on trustly any other big name guys not named batman and just stick to the lower gun guys who have less risk like a hex/losers character.

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Old 12-31-2009, 07:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Egos always have something to do with it in hollywood but I still think that the lack of boxoffice played a part in the sequel not coming about. Yes, he pissed Warner Brothers off when he went to do that Tom Cruise is german movie and yes I think that played a role but I think that WB wouldn't have been nearly as pissed at him if Superman Returns made Iron Man money.
Box office didn't play a factor into things until much much further down the line. What box office played a factor in was the budget for the sequel. What you have to remember is Batman Begins almost didn't get a sequel as well and when it did get one the WB was trying to be a little more controlling in that movie as well which is why Nolan almost walked from that movie and said he was not making a third Batman. Singer's Superman was in the same state as that movie. As said before the sequel was really suppose to come out in June 2009. However things changed when Valkyrie happened and sent the Superman movies in a tail spin mainly the WB saw how amp people were for the Dark Knight and wanted to get the next Superman movie off the ground ASAP. Singer and his crew didn't start any work on the next movie or any planing really until the WB started looking else where to get the movie off the ground because they were taking to long and never stayed in contact. Even the whole JL thing really was a way to help keep Siner's Superman out there at first when he did Valkyrie because if you remember the real story treatment was suppose to bridge the gap between Superman Returns and Batman Begins but when both directors said no to the idea. The WB went in a whole different direction where they were like we don't need Nolan or Singer which lead to JL:M.

It is funny really because if you look at it from another stand point the fans who didn't like Superman Returns should really be thanking Singer for taking on Valkyrie because had he done a smaller project as he was suppose to do. We would at this moment be talking about Superman: Man of Steel and how it just came out onto Blu-Ray/DVD and what the third movie might be about nstead of a reboot. As I said before I think Superman Returns was a great story and probably one of the best Superman stories I have seen in a while in both comics and movies and cartoons. Which is why I tell people to read the shooting script and see what was left on the cutting floor that movie had a lot of emotion and depth to it. However where I think he went wrong was how he did Jason. I am not mad at the fact that Superman has a kid but how it was done. Also I think he went wrong by using muted colors. If you see the Superman Returns suit without it the colors match up to what we all know and love only the red is more Kingdom Come red. I was not upset about the action because even in the comics it could be months before you get any action out of Superman.

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Old 12-31-2009, 07:20 AM   #39
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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I think how well Green Lantern does will determine if Superman gets a new movie soon.
GL will not have an effect on Superman to much right now they are dealing with the lawsuit and that is what is holding Superman up. Settle that you have a Superman movie, the longer it drags on the longer you go with out. GL will have more of an effect on people like Flash, Green Arrow, Captain Mavrel, etc.

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Old 12-31-2009, 09:41 AM   #40
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I'd be interested in knowing if the Superman/CK cameo is still on for G.L.

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Old 12-31-2009, 12:36 PM   #41
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Though even if singer didnt do that other movie do you guys really think he would have ended up doing another superman movie with his writers walking out on him and all that?

Greenktoo, i still think with how much of a mess we know the superman stuff is it would be alot safer to not include it. First since as we know no film is going to happen at least for a good few years. We shouldnt see one guy over another guy playing the character or make x thing look like x thing. Since next movie may treat things totally different. That is why i rather drop the kent cameo and throw in some other DCU guy that wouldnt be a cause of any problems like drop in a ray palmer, or a green arrow refrence or something. Or heck throw in another important green lantern character refrence in.

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Old 12-31-2009, 01:34 PM   #42
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Though even if singer didnt do that other movie do you guys really think he would have ended up doing another superman movie with his writers walking out on him and all that?
They didn't walk out on him. And Singer simply would have used another writer. I believe McQuarrie was rumored to have been working on the sequel script with him.

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Old 12-31-2009, 08:04 PM   #43
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Though even if singer didnt do that other movie do you guys really think he would have ended up doing another superman movie with his writers walking out on him and all that?
Singer's crew did not walk out on him. I think you really need to go back and look and see how things went down regarding a sequel to Superman Returns. Once again for the last time. Singer and his crew were set to do a sequel after Singer finished the small movie he was suppose to do after Superman Returns. The only effect the box office had on a sequel was that the budget was going from 200 million to around 175 and Kate was suppose to be gone as Lois. Everything else was suppose to stay the same and Singer was suppose to give us more action. But once again things changed when his small movie turned into a a huge project and the WB wanted to get the sequel off the ground ASAP. But Singer's crew did not walk out on him they were let go however only after they dragged their feet for so long with out contact or progress. And even then the WB was still looking to do a sequel. As I said before be it that you like the movie or hated it a sequel was going to happen. Had Singer picked another project then Valkyrie 9 out of 10 we would be talking about wither we liked the sequel or not and how it just came out on DVD. As I said befor once again that movie was viewed in the same manor as Batman Begins the only difference between the two was Nolan kept in contact with the WB and worked on the movie while filming another one when Singer did neither which in turn started off a chain of events that lead us to where we are.

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Old 12-31-2009, 08:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

alright.

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Old 01-01-2010, 07:36 AM   #45
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my problem with superman returns (and superman in general) is writers tend to lower superman down to the level of his villians they should focus on raising the villians to the level of superman.

singer spent 200 million and you have to ask where the money went. look at the look of district 9 for 30 million.
singer could have gone with darkseid (for example) and done something truly epic. what did we get? lex with a real estate scam (again) superman with son and superman pining after lois. utter UTTER RUBBISH!

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Old 01-01-2010, 08:09 AM   #46
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I think that the thread I made earlier can be put in here. If they can, someone should delete my other thread and I'll just post the idea here.
K, right now the masses don't really like Superman. I don't particularly like Superman at all. I just don't see much appeal in a guy who is pretty much godlike, at least thats how I (and lots of others) see him as. It's like a chuck norris joke "a plane is falling out of control and this guy flies up there faster than the plane WITH HIS OWN BODY grabs the plane and brings it to safety without killing anyone" what's next? He does a push up and the earth moves down instead of him moving up?

So, my proposal is that you have to make Superman more vulnerable. Most hardcore fans seem dead set against another origin. So why not make this into Superman's supehero career a bit. Let's say that Lex Luthor has turned a lot of Metropolis against Superman and that the police force and various other people on the Luther payroll is armed with guns that shoot kryptonite.

This way superman doesn't seem so flippin invincible and is a little more relatable. I honestly don't think the problem is necessarily with who is making the movie, but the character itself just isn't as popular because of the character.

Also, maybe give Superman more of an edge. Long into his crime fighting career, maybe he occassionally gets sick of Luther's men trying to kill him and turning good citizens against him so he gets a little brutal (but not unneccessarily). Maybe even have Luthor kill Lois Lane and have Supes momentarily think about leaving the planet because he has no reason to live there.

This is just my opinion and I thought it'd be interesting to give you guys the opinion of "one of those people" who don't particularly care for the Superman character. I'm interested to see you thoughts on this.

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Old 01-01-2010, 08:46 AM   #47
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I think that the thread I made earlier can be put in here. If they can, someone should delete my other thread and I'll just post the idea here.
K, right now the masses don't really like Superman. I don't particularly like Superman at all. I just don't see much appeal in a guy who is pretty much godlike, at least thats how I (and lots of others) see him as. It's like a chuck norris joke "a plane is falling out of control and this guy flies up there faster than the plane WITH HIS OWN BODY grabs the plane and brings it to safety without killing anyone" what's next? He does a push up and the earth moves down instead of him moving up?

So, my proposal is that you have to make Superman more vulnerable. Most hardcore fans seem dead set against another origin. So why not make this into Superman's supehero career a bit. Let's say that Lex Luthor has turned a lot of Metropolis against Superman and that the police force and various other people on the Luther payroll is armed with guns that shoot kryptonite.

This way superman doesn't seem so flippin invincible and is a little more relatable. I honestly don't think the problem is necessarily with who is making the movie, but the character itself just isn't as popular because of the character.

Also, maybe give Superman more of an edge. Long into his crime fighting career, maybe he occassionally gets sick of Luther's men trying to kill him and turning good citizens against him so he gets a little brutal (but not unneccessarily). Maybe even have Luthor kill Lois Lane and have Supes momentarily think about leaving the planet because he has no reason to live there.

This is just my opinion and I thought it'd be interesting to give you guys the opinion of "one of those people" who don't particularly care for the Superman character. I'm interested to see you thoughts on this.
why? why do you have to do this?
writers should stop treating superman like spider-man, like batman. make it grand, make it epic.
if a villian throws a car at spidey, then superman's villian should throw a tank at superman. if a villian throws a rock at spidey then superman's villian should throw a building at superman.

if superman indeed has godlike powers then for pity sake give him a godlike villian to fight, stop trying to make superman mortal, there is a list as long as your arm with mortal heroes.

look at the final fight between neo and smith in the matrix climax, THAT's what a PROPER superman battle should be like.
stop trying to make superman relateable, SPIDER-MAN is relateable, spidey has to pay the bills, spidey has to make ends meet, with superman he should be an INSPIRATION. you relate to spidey you LOOK UP to superman.

in the next superman movie he should fight one of the following
DARKSEID - superman's equal in power and brilliant strategist
BRAINAIC - superman's equal in power who wants to digitise the earth and then destroy the original
DOOMSDAY - superman's superior in power who want to destroy all life

superman is not a hard character to 'get', like spider-man is not a hard character to 'get' (make him wisecrack and everyone is happy).

the reason superman is losing popularity is because on screen (SR) he is BORING, give him someone to hit who can give it back in spades, make the audience believe that this foe is going to take superman to the limits of his power and beyond.

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Old 01-01-2010, 12:01 PM   #48
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SR destroyed "Superman's legacy" that is all folks.

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Old 01-01-2010, 12:49 PM   #49
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

spider neil you are right there they need to find a comparable villain to have superman face then weaken him/make him mortal like.

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Old 01-01-2010, 02:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Well, it's a new decade and I don't doubt by the end of it Superman will be on the big screen again. I'm gonna be positive about the whole thing. Nobody has killed Superman's Legacy. The thing about a Legacy is that it endures. Fans come and go. The story is passed down to new generations. There are leaps then there are stumbles. I think we'll all get the great Superman film we've been waiting for . It won't be easy , but nothing in life ever is . Just look at the path from Batman and Robin to The Dark Knight.

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