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Old 01-05-2010, 08:52 PM   #76
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
why? why do you have to do this?
writers should stop treating superman like spider-man, like batman. make it grand, make it epic.
if a villian throws a car at spidey, then superman's villian should throw a tank at superman. if a villian throws a rock at spidey then superman's villian should throw a building at superman.

if superman indeed has godlike powers then for pity sake give him a godlike villian to fight, stop trying to make superman mortal, there is a list as long as your arm with mortal heroes.

look at the final fight between neo and smith in the matrix climax, THAT's what a PROPER superman battle should be like.
stop trying to make superman relateable, SPIDER-MAN is relateable, spidey has to pay the bills, spidey has to make ends meet, with superman he should be an INSPIRATION. you relate to spidey you LOOK UP to superman.

in the next superman movie he should fight one of the following
DARKSEID - superman's equal in power and brilliant strategist
BRAINAIC - superman's equal in power who wants to digitise the earth and then destroy the original
DOOMSDAY - superman's superior in power who want to destroy all life

superman is not a hard character to 'get', like spider-man is not a hard character to 'get' (make him wisecrack and everyone is happy).

the reason superman is losing popularity is because on screen (SR) he is BORING, give him someone to hit who can give it back in spades, make the audience believe that this foe is going to take superman to the limits of his power and beyond.
BINGO. Thank you. Why does a spider-man fan understand superman better than superman fans?

All the time on these boards you see people wanting to, IMO neuter superman, make him a weakling like he was in STAS, make him more relatable like Spider-Man.

Superman is not Spider-Man. Spider-Man works because he is the anti superman.

A Superman movie should be, in part, an incredible man taking overcoming incredible things. All Star Superman was one of the few superman comics this decade to understand that idea. It also understood that if you want to make him more human, give him emotional conflict.

Superman is like Hercules, or Neo...people love them when they're powerful and they use that incredible power in the most badass ways possible.

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Welcome to the Batman v Superman forums, where people will take a perfectly reasonable comment you make and twist it into something completely different to make themselves feel better.

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Old 01-06-2010, 06:54 AM   #77
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

So basically I hear a lot of guys wanting MASSIVE(ness?) in this movie. You don't want Superman to really be relatable. Just a morally perfect badass who has a morally imperfect badass badguy and you want them to tear **** up. With a little cool dialogue thrown in.

Well, it worked for 300, and that's really what it sounds like. So my suggestion is hire Zack Snyder (300, Watchmen) or Michael Bay to do the movie. Then you get a lot of action, Snyder might do a better job at little character traits, both will give you great visuals and action.

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Old 01-06-2010, 12:20 PM   #78
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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So basically I hear a lot of guys wanting MASSIVE(ness?) in this movie. You don't want Superman to really be relatable. Just a morally perfect badass who has a morally imperfect badass badguy and you want them to tear **** up. With a little cool dialogue thrown in.

Well, it worked for 300, and that's really what it sounds like. So my suggestion is hire Zack Snyder (300, Watchmen) or Michael Bay to do the movie. Then you get a lot of action, Snyder might do a better job at little character traits, both will give you great visuals and action.
Not Michael Bay he is terrible, the movie would be a incoherent mess with no heart if he was the director.

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Old 01-06-2010, 02:17 PM   #79
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

we need to find someone who can balance an action film while still giving us a solid story in the film so it isnt just all out action and things blowing up.

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Old 01-06-2010, 05:44 PM   #80
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Zack Snyder. 300 looked great, people loved it (for some reason, I thought it was macho crap), and Watchmen was really good with a mix of everything, should've done better in BO.

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Old 01-06-2010, 05:51 PM   #81
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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we need to find someone who can balance an action film while still giving us a solid story in the film so it isnt just all out action and things blowing up.
How about
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 01-06-2010, 07:55 PM   #82
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

no no i may like bay's movies for the action and all that. But i rather go with a director who can handle both telling a good story/drama and can handle sfx/action stuff. Like a spielberg/jackson type of director, i know they will never be an option. But someone like them. I cant really think of any guys off the top of my head right now.

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Old 01-07-2010, 04:54 AM   #83
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Why not James Cameron? He can do complex stories with great visual effects in a sci fi setting that will draw tons of money. Sound perfect to me.

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Old 01-07-2010, 05:14 AM   #84
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

folks like james cameron, spielberg, and jackson are never going to be invovled. Since we know the studio will want to control this project more. Plus on cameron front he is kinda sick of superhero movies and he has stated in the past only one he wants to do is spiderman.

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:57 AM   #85
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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no no i may like bay's movies for the action and all that. But i rather go with a director who can handle both telling a good story/drama and can handle sfx/action stuff. Like a spielberg/jackson type of director, i know they will never be an option. But someone like them. I cant really think of any guys off the top of my head right now.
I was joking. Bay and plot are like oil and water. That's why i even picked a picture of him and an explosion.

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Old 01-07-2010, 01:16 PM   #86
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I'd vote for JJ Abrams doing the new movie. He can balance great character stuff development with awesome action. He knows how to create a fantastic sci-fi fantasy feel but still feel grounded. I loved star trek, he took classic characters that everone but was able to sucessfully update them with the same spirit while avoiding parody or simple imitation. he did a great job in Mission Impossible III with all of the above elements, even including a great love story.

I know people complain about is 2001 script but how many people have actually read it? I mean all 160 pages or whatever it was. You can find it on the internet. I've read it and you know what it was pretty good. You have to look at it in two ways. A movie has plot and it has characters. Characters are more important than plot. Why do i say this? Most plots have been done before, look at any romantic comedy, any action movie, most superhero movies, the plots are basically the same for each genre just tweaked with the details. However we enjoy these same plots over and over again because of the characters. If you have likable enough characters and just a decent plot you can still have success at the movies.

Looking at the script when that in mind you'll have find that most of the problems were with the plot itself, krypton not exploding, lex being from krypton, etc. etc. He's stated that those elements were removed.

The characters he wrote were really good, specifically his clark and lois. Didn't like his jimmy or perry, his lex was pretty good to. Just saying he knows how to write well rounded characters that exude personality. That's what you need in a superman movie. If he could approach this movie the way he did star trek, and have a team that also included someone with real indepth knowledge of the characters 70 yr+ history then i think you'd get a movie very true to the characters we all love.

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:06 PM   #87
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

ok earle

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:07 PM   #88
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

day it all counts on what version of the script it was first draft was bad, the later drafts were better.

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:33 AM   #89
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Webhead, i'm not sure what version i just found it on the internet here:

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Superman(JJAbrams).pdf

Again i thought some of characters were well written while the plot itself needed to change.

That's also why i said if he would form a team, like he did with star trek, that included a few people who really knew superman lore, them they'd probably provide checks and balances on what would work in a superman movie and what wouldn't.

I also think you have to approach first and foremost with what makes a good movie? Which director can craft a good movie of this scale and calibur? Then how can they make it work with superman.

The key imho is to balance action/excitment, with a solid character driven film, with clark as the lead, and lois the primary supporting character. The other character too, jimmy , perry, maybe cat grant, ron troupe, whoever else is in the film should also be well written. Some directors do action really well but lack character depth and good dialogue. Others do the character stuff really well but can do good action. I think Abrams can do both, based on Star Trek and Mission Impossible 3.

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Old 01-08-2010, 11:35 AM   #90
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

Incidently would anyone know how to change your screen name? Say for instance, hypothetically speaking of course, someone tried to create the screen name Daybreak_st but in their haste tyed Dabyreak_st...how would they go about fixing that...hypothetically speaking of course.

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Old 01-09-2010, 01:27 AM   #91
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

yea i wish they can find the right writers that can strike the balance needed for script and can develop well drawn out characters. As for JJ it would be interesting if he was given the shot again now with what we know as fans didnt like the early draft of his stuff and he knows fans didnt like it. But he is likely not going to see superman thrown on his lap any time in the next few yrs.

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Old 01-09-2010, 11:15 AM   #92
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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Incidently would anyone know how to change your screen name? Say for instance, hypothetically speaking of course, someone tried to create the screen name Daybreak_st but in their haste tyed Dabyreak_st...how would they go about fixing that...hypothetically speaking of course.
PM a mod.

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Old 01-10-2010, 10:14 PM   #93
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

If Zack Snyder handled Superman it be like 300 and Watchmen. Doubt it be Rated R, of course Superman cannot be Rated R it has to be PG-13, atlhough a Rated R Supes film...wow!..in a bad way....Anyways Snyder just have bad music and alot of inapporiate stuff happening in the film. Although I enjoyed Watchmen and 300. Watchmen however did not have to be Rated R.

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Old 01-11-2010, 09:03 PM   #94
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

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If Zack Snyder handled Superman it be like 300 and Watchmen. Doubt it be Rated R, of course Superman cannot be Rated R it has to be PG-13, atlhough a Rated R Supes film...wow!..in a bad way....Anyways Snyder just have bad music and alot of inapporiate stuff happening in the film. Although I enjoyed Watchmen and 300. Watchmen however did not have to be Rated R.
Watchmen had to be Rated R. That's the way the original comic was.

But Zach Snyder needs to be kept the hell away from any Superman film. Superman should not be dark, try to be "badass," or fight in slow-mo for a minute straight.

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Old 01-13-2010, 03:30 AM   #95
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

even if snyder did superman whos to say it would be dark sure probably would throw in a few slow mo scenes. And if it was done i wouldnt mind it counting on how its used.

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Old 01-13-2010, 03:30 AM   #96
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

even if snyder did superman whos to say it would be dark sure probably would throw in a few slow mo scenes. And if it was done i wouldnt mind it counting on how its used.

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Old 01-14-2010, 07:25 PM   #97
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Thing is Snyder made a good movie out of Watchmen and 300 so a Superman flick under him be good proably. Be interesting to see him tackle the man of steel.

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Old 01-14-2010, 08:01 PM   #98
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Default Re: I think we fans destroyed Superman's legacy.

I'm going to blame Steve Englehart. Back when he bailed from Marvel and took over the JLA.

Digression: I took a Medieval Lit course in college taught by the resident Chaucer scholar. We got some translated Welsh tales he'd collected which presented Cei (Sir Kay in later Arthuriana) in a fairly heroic old school light, and went to the Mabinogian and later materials that made him more cowardly bullying and buffonish.

There is a tendency to make new heroes look better by trashing the older ones. Not new then. The Titans and Vanire of Greek and Norse myth got similar treatments.

But back to Englehart: He had his eye on building a new type of superhero. He basically started dumping on Superman and Flash all through his run.

It's a trend that never really stoopped.

Bit by bit, making him the headstrong hardline obstructionist has tainted the character. Worse, it's Kewl to make the new hero the guy who beats the snot out of Supes.

One of the absolute dumbest moves DC did was let Batman beat Superman in Dark Knight Returns. As long as Batman automatically wins is the theme, you're killing the biggest Franchise in comics.

Case in point when introducing the Justice League Elite (the villain team the Elite supposedly turning good), Supes swoops in to stop the known murdering bastiches that comprised the Elite. Vera Black takes him out with one gesture and walks over to his unconscous form and puts her foot on his chest.

Did that make the Elite uber kewl and popular? No, they got the 12 issues DC contracted for and went nowwhere.

But they did diminish Superman with that scene.

now let's take on Mr. Cool Hero, the batgod himself. Using that diminsihg treatmeant, we have New Hero showing up in Gotham and getting the Lecture from Bats.

Later on in the Commissioner's office, talk happens with new hero and Bats present. Bat goes off panel as New hero is being told something.

However, New Hero says "Be sure to close the window after you leave. Wouldn't want anyone here to catch a cold from that chilly wind that blows through this town now would we?" And the next panel shows Bats in the middle of stepping through the window.

By making New Hero able to not fall for that disappearance schtick, we may have made new Hero seem really good at what he does, particularly if he's got some powers Batman hasn't dealt with before and couldn't reasonably be expected to counter.

BUT we just diminished the Bat franchise. They're smart enough to keep Batman protected from this crud. Why can't they see they can't do it to Superman either?

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