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Old 02-24-2010, 07:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

The whole idea that Byrne`s Clark is real and Superman is the desguise is BS. Byrne never wrote that. It is the people who misread the whole thing. Go read Man of Steel 1. Metropolis Clark, the disguise is there, glasses, posture, hair combed back and all.

After Clark left Smallville, he rescued people around the world till that one day he had to make a public appearence by saving a NASA space bus. He had no uniform on and Lois called him Superman.

Then, he went back home, overwhelmed by people`s reaction and scared that he wouldn`t be able to live a normal life anymore. So they design the "Metropolis Clark Kent" persona and then give Kal a costume so he can be free to use his powers to help people. It`s not that Superman is a disguise. He is real, him wanting to help people, being a symbol for them.

Regarding Metropolis Clark, he made the character much more believable, added more layers, made him realand made the difference between Clark and Supes much more psychological and the key to the secret identity is not acting like a fool or a charicature but how people percieve Superman: They see a symbol, someone so alien, so detached from our lives the people don`t see Supes in a normal guy with glasses.

Moreover, Clark is now is an accomplished writer who uses his job to spread truth over cases and control the information on Superman. He is a good reporter, someone who would be rival of Lois Lane since he scooped her on the Superman story.

Lois is also a modern woman, spunky, etc. Basically the Lois you see today, someone who is very independent and all, and not the damsel in distress joke you see in pre-crsisis.

Also, Luthor is not a scientist who wants to rule the world. He is a corporate genious who controls technology and Metropolis.

All in all, Byrne removed all the camp and charicature portraits of the most important characters of the Superman mythos and made them believable.


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Old 02-24-2010, 07:53 PM   #27
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Double post.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:00 PM   #28
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Sounds like. . .

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


If that's the case: HELL YEAH!
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I liked a lot because it gives the Kents and Earth much more importance. Because he was raised here, he gained the ability to feel, have emotions, be human and that`s why Superman is so special.

The great irony is that Superman is the most human and caring person ever and he is an alien...
Yeah but... I dunno, i liked it better when Jor and Lara were torn that they would die and they were desperate to save their only child. This birthing matrix sounds like the Nazi soldier factories that "perfect" women would mate with "perfect" men to spawn new soldiers. Ehh....

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:00 PM   #29
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well said SuperDaniel... I would like very much if the Smallville continuity would be abolished and have Supes go back to the way he was from Byrne's run. After all, I can't figure out why they did the Waid reboot anyway... they never revamped Batsey after Miller did it!

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #30
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If that's the case: HELL YEAH!
Yeah but... I dunno, i liked it better when Jor and Lara were torn that they would die and they were desperate to save their only child. This birthing matrix sounds like the Nazi soldier factories that "perfect" women would mate with "perfect" men to spawn new soldiers. Ehh....
You`re wrong. They still feel like this, otherwise Jor-el wouldn`t even want to send his son. You find out eventually Jor-el had feelings, something different in Krypton`s society.

But yeah. Byrne era also means Superman animated series that is a balance between both eras. I believe that`s what we`re going to see.


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Old 02-24-2010, 08:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

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I liked it except for the birthing matrix and having Pa Kent be alive.
I agree

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

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The whole idea that Byrne`s Clark is real and Superman is the desguise is BS. Byrne never wrote that. It is the people who misread the whole thing. Go read Man of Steel 1. Metropolis Clark, the disguise is there, glasses, posture, hair combed back and all.

After Clark left Smallville, he rescued people around the world till that one day he had to make a public appearence by saving a NASA space bus. He had no uniform on and Lois called him Superman.

Then, he went back home, overwhelmed by people`s reaction and scared that he wouldn`t be able to live a normal life anymore. So they design the "Metropolis Clark Kent" persona and then give Kal a costume so he can be free to use his powers to help people. It`s not that Superman is a disguise. He is real, him wanting to help people, being a symbol for them.

Regarding Metropolis Clark, he made the character much more believable, added more layers, made him realand made the difference between Clark and Supes much more psychological and the key to the secret identity is not acting like a fool or a charicature but how people percieve Superman: They see a symbol, someone so alien, so detached from our lives the people don`t see Supes in a normal guy with glasses.

Moreover, Clark is now is an accomplished writer who uses his job to spread truth over cases and control the information on Superman. He is a good reporter, someone who would be rival of Lois Lane since he scooped her on the Superman story.

Lois is also a modern woman, spunky, etc. Basically the Lois you see today, someone who is very independent and all, and not the damsel in distress joke you see in pre-crsisis.

Also, Luthor is not a scientist who wants to rule the world. He is a corporate genious who controls technology and Metropolis.

All in all, Byrne removed all the camp and charicature portraits of the most important characters of the Superman mythos and made them believable.
Great synopsis.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:27 PM   #33
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As a purist fan, I hated it at the time. I hate it less now and it did have good action, but to me it took a lot of shots at fans like me and at the writers and artists that came before it. I have no interest and in fact disgust for realism in comics or in superhero movies. My only hope for this movie now is that it's not 100% Byrne styled to the exemption of anything else.

It also started a schism in the Superman fan community that exists to this day. To the most hardcore of purists, Superman existed from 1938-1986 and hasn't been seen since. I'm not quite that extreme, but it's never been the same to me either.

This announcement is very bad news for me, as I was hoping Geoff Johns position in DC Entertainment and his Superman: Secret Origin series would lead to a more classic interpretation.
Honestly, I think that a Superman film should include elements of Byrne's Superman work (LexCorp, Clark Kent being the real person), along with Donner (Krypton), Superman: The Animated Series (Brainiac), Rucka (Daily Planet), the Golden Age (Superman fighting for the little guy), etc. Just focusing on one element like what Superman Returns did or hell just focusing on the Byrne era is a bad idea IMO.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:27 PM   #34
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Basically, Krypton is a very genetic advanced civilation, people don`t have sex or even get in contact with other kryptonians. They progressed so much over disease and all the problems that people live a lot of years. When a kryptonian dies, usuallly a male and a female are chosen to breed a kryptonian child without having never even met. They`re selected because they`re the best available. The infants are born into a gestation chamber. Lara and Jor-el are chosen to breed the new kryptonian child, Kal-el because people are dying over kryptonite exposure, called the plague, the radioactive fusion of elements in the instable core of Krypton.

But the thing is that Jor-el sees Lara and falls in love with her. So, once he discovers Krypton is going to explode, he take the fetus of Kal-el out of the gestation chamber, attaches a hyperdrive propulsor in it and launches into space, while saying i love you to lara.

It is much more complex than that, there`s a whole history with cloning and all that. It`s fascinating, IMO. I like it a lot because it feels very different from Earth.

Read World of Krypton written by John Byrne to know about all the details.
I LOVE this idea! Unlike the other stories I'm used to seeing, it embraces the alien aspect of Superman. I would like to see at least part of this in the movie.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:52 PM   #35
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Honestly, I think that a Superman film should include elements of Byrne's Superman work (LexCorp, Clark Kent being the real person), along with Donner (Krypton), Superman: The Animated Series (Brainiac), Rucka (Daily Planet), the Golden Age (Superman fighting for the little guy), etc. Just focusing on one element like what Superman Returns did or hell just focusing on the Byrne era is a bad idea IMO.
I agree. I think that they re already combining all the best elements in the current Superman comics and that's what the movie should do.

Also, Goyer should pay attention to any successful comics, TV series (STAS, L&C), and movies for various bits he can use and to understand what people love about these Superman stories that made them a success.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:55 PM   #36
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Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

I honestly wouldn't fret too much about Goyer taking everything from the Byrne run on superman. The guy is a good writer and a life-long comic fan. Before working on BB i heard he went out and bought up a lot of great batman stories for "research". The fact that's he's doing Superman no doubt means he'll do the research.

And both STAS and Lois and Clark were based on the Byrne run. that doesn't mean we saw a birthing matrix or the weirder kryptonians or anything like that. It just means some of the basic setup, like metropolis clark as a 3d person, and the daily planet staff having fleshed out personalities and a more important role, things like that. I have no doubt he'll pull elements across the comics medium though he may have to steer clear of some things b/c of legal reasons. I can't wait to find out more.

I'm curious of how Brainiac was portrayed during the Bryne run. Was he the same as STAS?

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:56 PM   #37
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I agree. I think that they re already combining all the best elements in the current Superman comics and that's what the movie should do.

Also, Goyer should pay attention to any successful comics, TV series (STAS, L&C), and movies for various bits he can use and to understand what people love about these Superman stories that made them a success.
Considering how Nolan's crew handled Batman by incorporating the works of Jeph Loeb (The Long Halloween), Frank Miller (Batman: Year One, the Dark Knight Returns), Alan Moore (The Killing Joke), Bill Finger/Bob Kane/Jerry Robinson (Batman #1), Dennis O'Neil (The Man Who Falls), and the DC Animated Universe (Batman: Mask of the Phantasm); I would imagine that the Nolans and Goyer would incorporate various aspects of the Superman mythos, just like what they did with Batman.

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Old 02-24-2010, 08:57 PM   #38
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Na. He was an alien from Colu that took over the mind of a circus guy. Later, he made a robotic body for himself but i`ve never liked that version of Braniac.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:05 PM   #39
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Considering how Nolan's crew handled Batman by incorporating the works of Jeph Loeb (The Long Halloween), Frank Miller (Batman: Year One, the Dark Knight Returns), Alan Moore (The Killing Joke), Bill Finger/Bob Kane/Jerry Robinson (Batman #1), Dennis O'Neil (The Man Who Falls), and the DC Animated Universe (Batman: Mask of the Phantasm); I would imagine that the Nolans and Goyer would incorporate various aspects of the Superman mythos, just like what they did with Batman.
the only problem with this statement is that NOLAN had control of the script and was co-writer with Batman...

with this, he apparently isn't the co-writer

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Hopefully they will take the best elements from bryne's time, and also look at other stories too and make the story rounded out with the elements we fans want to see. As for krypton hopefully if we get to see it will be a different type of place and other stuff. Hopefully this will turn out well.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:08 PM   #41
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the only problem with this statement is that NOLAN had control of the script and was co-writer with Batman...

with this, he apparently isn't the co-writer
But he's going to be a hands on producer and his brother is involved with the script as well.

I just can't imagine using only one aspect of the Superman mythos yet again. Especially with this team on board.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:13 PM   #42
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the only problem with this statement is that NOLAN had control of the script and was co-writer with Batman...

with this, he apparently isn't the co-writer
That's both good and bad.
Surely Nolan knows how to write magnificent stories, but on the other hand they had to restrain him from removing the cape, grapple gun and other elements because he found them stupid. His realistic world is not only an artistic vision, but its also because he was afraid to adapt the comics as they were. Afraid, found them ridiculous, only he knows.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:15 PM   #43
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That's a pointless concern now that we know Jonah and Goyer are on this. The trio is a check & balance system so to speak, so I wouldn't worry at all about being afraid to adapt the comics. Chris is outnumbered 2:1 by the geeks.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:25 PM   #44
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I would like it if the new movie takes various ideas:

Lex and Clark being frienimies in books like Smallville, Silver Age, birthright, secret identity

Clark is a more of a 3 dimensional character. Clark being an asertive reporter helping people out using his stories and acting shy and quiet so no one would notice him leave when he becomes superman
Lois is independent and assertive yet have a hero crush of sorts on Clark
Lex should be a mix of the mad scientist and the corparate buisness veiwing himself as a hero man like Lex Luthor Man of Steel, Man of Steel Lex, Birthright Lex, etc
It should feel realistic and at the same time feels like something that could happen in the real world and a comic book adventure(it is ojne of the main theme in the superman stories)

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:27 PM   #45
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Na. He was an alien from Colu that took over the mind of a circus guy. Later, he made a robotic body for himself but i`ve never liked that version of Braniac.



Thanks. Yeah that doesn't sound very good. Both the STAS version and the current comic version have ties to krypton. In STAS he was actually created by kryptonians. In the current comic version he attacked krypton, killed lots of citizens, zod's forces tried to fight them off unsuccessfullly, then he captured the Kandor. They're not sure if he had anything to do with the direct destruction of krypton, but that's his mo, he steals a portion of a planet, to have they're knowledge directly linked to his brain then destroys the planet. I'd like to see either version as they're motivations are similar.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:30 PM   #46
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Thanks. Yeah that doesn't sound very good. Both the STAS version and the current comic version have ties to krypton. In STAS he was actually created by kryptonians. In the current comic version he attacked krypton, killed lots of citizens, zod's forces tried to fight them off unsuccessfullly, then he captured the Kandor. They're not sure if he had anything to do with the direct destruction of krypton, but that's his mo, he steals a portion of a planet, to have they're knowledge directly linked to his brain then destroys the planet. I'd like to see either version as they're motivations are similar.
I like the whole Brainiac having a relationship with Superman and Krypton which makes it more personal as seen in Smallville(which a lot of people like and veiw as Superman origin as seen on sites like Kryptonsite and some Smallville fourms) and hope to see that in the movies.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:45 PM   #47
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tieing him to krypton would be a good way to have that connection to superman/clark.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:54 PM   #48
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The whole idea that Byrne`s Clark is real and Superman is the desguise is BS. Byrne never wrote that. It is the people who misread the whole thing. Go read Man of Steel 1. Metropolis Clark, the disguise is there, glasses, posture, hair combed back and all.
But he was still raised as Clark Kent by Martha and Jonathan Kent. That was true of the pre-Crisis Superman; but there was more of a sense that that was never as important to him as finding remnants of his home planet. Bottom line: while elements of Clark's persona are fabrications, we're still given a man named Clark who forges the identity of Superman.

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After Clark left Smallville, he rescued people around the world till that one day he had to make a public appearence by saving a NASA space bus. He had no uniform on and Lois called him Superman.

Then, he went back home, overwhelmed by people`s reaction and scared that he wouldn`t be able to live a normal life anymore. So they design the "Metropolis Clark Kent" persona and then give Kal a costume so he can be free to use his powers to help people. It`s not that Superman is a disguise. He is real, him wanting to help people, being a symbol for them.
It is a disguise in that it's intended to hide the fact that he is Clark Kent whose parents are Martha and Jonathan and who works for (or will once the "interview" gets out) the Daily Planet.

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Regarding Metropolis Clark, he made the character much more believable, added more layers, made him realand made the difference between Clark and Supes much more psychological and the key to the secret identity is not acting like a fool or a charicature but how people percieve Superman: They see a symbol, someone so alien, so detached from our lives the people don`t see Supes in a normal guy with glasses.

Moreover, Clark is now is an accomplished writer who uses his job to spread truth over cases and control the information on Superman. He is a good reporter, someone who would be rival of Lois Lane since he scooped her on the Superman story.
Yes, they made Clark more three-dimensional and all that; which is why and how he's "the real guy."

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Lois is also a modern woman, spunky, etc. Basically the Lois you see today, someone who is very independent and all, and not the damsel in distress joke you see in pre-crsisis.
Oh come on! Not only did they get rid of that a LONG time before Man of Steel but while she was often captured and in need of rescure in the Golden Age, she was still "modern" and "spunky" by any definitions of the term.

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Also, Luthor is not a scientist who wants to rule the world. He is a corporate genious who controls technology and Metropolis.

All in all, Byrne removed all the camp and charicature portraits of the most important characters of the Superman mythos and made them believable.
No he didn't. They weren't charicatures before he came onboard, and even at their most silly--late forties through early sixties--they weren't "camp" in that they weren't played for laughts. Furthermore, Lois was "modern and spunky" at-least as the later phase of her spin-off title, and just because Lex was a "mad scientist" didn't mean he was a "joke" or whatever. He was just different.

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Old 02-24-2010, 09:54 PM   #49
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I think people mix up being "weak" with "not being as strong as the previous Superman". Byrne's Superman certainly wasn't weak, but pre-crisis Superman could practically play billards with planets, and Byrne just brought down to better level.
Exactly...
I've read the first 6 issues of the Byrne reboot. To call him weak is completely unfounded. He was still incredibly powerful, but Byrne made it possible to tell stories with this character again. Before this, Superman could move planets and blow out stars. It makes it quite difficult to create a challenge for the character. So Byrne's reboot did good things for Supes. And it was still recognizably Superman.

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Old 02-24-2010, 10:26 PM   #50
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its been forever since I started a thread, but this seems as good a moment as ever. I have vague knowledge of his work, I remember being recognized as very good by fans overall. So can you guys give us (I'm surely not alone) an idea of waht to expect? Thanks, this should be a fun thread.

Its all been retconned away because in the long run it was a rubbish step for the character. Its more 'realistic', suited to the period it was written and with Superman's powers reduced. No longer had he been superboy, visited the Legion or had any other kryptonians around. (not even Zod) So, basically what the movies had done anyway. Its a fanboy run that ignores the fanboys and fangirls of anything to do with Superman that isn't superman.

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