The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2010, 10:30 PM   #51
Daybreak_st
Old-School Comic Cool
 
Daybreak_st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman29758 View Post
I like the whole Brainiac having a relationship with Superman and Krypton which makes it more personal as seen in Smallville(which a lot of people like and veiw as Superman origin as seen on sites like Kryptonsite and some Smallville fourms) and hope to see that in the movies.

Yeah there are a few ways you can tie him to krypton while still using other elements. Like the smallville version was vastly different from the STAS version. I prefer STAS or the current comic version. The smallville version had one goal: bring back zod and re-create kryton on earth. It became kind of weak as the plot went on. I prefer brainiac as in STAS in constantly seeking knowledge, then trying to destroy the world so that knowledge becomes more valuable. It's a much more interesting character with unique motivations. Also the current comic version is an enemy of general zod rather than a collaborator, and to me that adds a new wrinkle that's pretty cool. LIke supes teaming up with one enemy to defeat another. Anyway hoping we get something inbetween STAS and current comic version

Daybreak_st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 10:45 PM   #52
zman
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: montreal
Posts: 728
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

I knew I could count on you guys to tell me about this. If Goyer is reading comics from that era, the visual aspect might influence him as well! anyone has pics of things you hope Goyer will notice and somehow use?

zman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:12 PM   #53
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

that would be cool day.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:42 PM   #54
ZIPBAGS
Side-Kick
 
ZIPBAGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,170
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Go watch superman tas. It's the best version of supes. Also, watch "world's finest". It's where supes @ bats meet for the first time. The 2scenes where t
& how they learn each others secret Identities is great.

ZIPBAGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:44 PM   #55
SuperDaniel
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,782
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightwing1983 View Post
But he was still raised as Clark Kent by Martha and Jonathan Kent. That was true of the pre-Crisis Superman; but there was more of a sense that that was never as important to him as finding remnants of his home planet. Bottom line: while elements of Clark's persona are fabrications, we're still given a man named Clark who forges the identity of Superman.


It is a disguise in that it's intended to hide the fact that he is Clark Kent whose parents are Martha and Jonathan and who works for (or will once the "interview" get out) the Daily Planet.
You couldn`t be more wrong. Superman IS NOT a disguise in any shape or form.

Clark doesn`t change his manneirisms when he is in costume. He is free to do use his powers and save people.

Metropolis Clark is still a disguise because he pretends not having powers, wears glasses and give excuses all the time and all to save the day. He is just not a bumbling fool or a charicature. He is treated as "what if Clark didn`t have powers and was just a normal person"

Like i said, the secret works because of the way people see Superman and because he doesn`t wear a mask.

Superman is pretty much real. And so is Clark in the sense its not a complete act. However, it is still Superman pretending(hiding his powers) to be normal and living(not faking it) a normal life. It`s not Superman pretending to be a bumbling, fool, coward guy like the pre-crisis.

Clark is both Clark and Superman. It`s a double identity and it works because of our prejudices. We just don`t see a flying god in our co-workers.

That`s a BIG difference.

SuperDaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:46 PM   #56
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

well hopefully we will see both clark and superman as two fully developed characters.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:00 AM   #57
Kurosawa
Banned User
 
Kurosawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 22,300 miles above the Earth
Posts: 9,485
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Honestly, I think that a Superman film should include elements of Byrne's Superman work (LexCorp, Clark Kent being the real person), along with Donner (Krypton), Superman: The Animated Series (Brainiac), Rucka (Daily Planet), the Golden Age (Superman fighting for the little guy), etc. Just focusing on one element like what Superman Returns did or hell just focusing on the Byrne era is a bad idea IMO.
I'm okay with some of that, not the specifics you gave, but I do think they should take from all eras, not just one and especially not Byrne's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDaniel View Post
The whole idea that Byrne`s Clark is real and Superman is the desguise is BS. Byrne never wrote that. It is the people who misread the whole thing. Go read Man of Steel 1. Metropolis Clark, the disguise is there, glasses, posture, hair combed back and all.
Byrne's character said explicitly: My true identity of Clark Kent. But yeah, there is a disguise. His Clark didn't look like Superman with glasses on, he actually looked like Colossus with glasses on. He did set Clark as the real person, which had never been done before as that was not Siegel's intention, but I will grant that people who came later took it further.

Quote:
After Clark left Smallville, he rescued people around the world till that one day he had to make a public appearence by saving a NASA space bus. He had no uniform on and Lois called him Superman.

Then, he went back home, overwhelmed by people`s reaction and scared that he wouldn`t be able to live a normal life anymore. So they design the "Metropolis Clark Kent" persona and then give Kal a costume so he can be free to use his powers to help people. It`s not that Superman is a disguise. He is real, him wanting to help people, being a symbol for them.
Hated that scene. He came off like a whiny punk. "They all wanted a piece of me." waaaaaaaa.

Quote:
Regarding Metropolis Clark, he made the character much more believable, added more layers, made him realand made the difference between Clark and Supes much more psychological and the key to the secret identity is not acting like a fool or a charicature but how people percieve Superman: They see a symbol, someone so alien, so detached from our lives the people don`t see Supes in a normal guy with glasses.

Moreover, Clark is now is an accomplished writer who uses his job to spread truth over cases and control the information on Superman. He is a good reporter, someone who would be rival of Lois Lane since he scooped her on the Superman story.
He was always a rival to Lois because he scooped her on the Superman story.

Quote:
Lois is also a modern woman, spunky, etc. Basically the Lois you see today, someone who is very independent and all, and not the damsel in distress joke you see in pre-crsisis.
That crap had been gone for DECADES before MOS started. Lois was that way all through the 70's and was rarely captured.

Quote:
Also, Luthor is not a scientist who wants to rule the world. He is a corporate genious who controls technology and Metropolis.
Luthor was not interested in world conquest Pre-Crisis either except for the Golden Age Luthor. I assume you are not familiar with Bronze Age Lex at all. Luthor's only goal was to destroy Superman. Nothing else interested him except for his personal scientific interests which he shared with no one. Lex was more of the Doom/Magneto school of honorable, pragmatic villain. He was not so much evil as he was incredibly embittered at Superman.

Quote:
All in all, Byrne removed all the camp and charicature portraits of the most important characters of the Superman mythos and made them believable.
Those elements had been gone for years. If anything his Superman was much more corny than the Bronze Age Superman that he replaced, which resulted in the "Big Blue Boy Scout" ******** and him becoming a joke amongst many of his peers in the DCU, along with his permanent place as Batgod's *****.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04nbod View Post
Its all been retconned away because in the long run it was a rubbish step for the character. Its more 'realistic', suited to the period it was written and with Superman's powers reduced. No longer had he been superboy, visited the Legion or had any other kryptonians around. (not even Zod) So, basically what the movies had done anyway. Its a fanboy run that ignores the fanboys and fangirls of anything to do with Superman that isn't superman.
To his credit, Byrne admitted that getting rid of Superboy was a mistake.

Despite all my vitriol towards Byrne's character, there are purist fans who hate it far, far more than I. There are things he did that I do find interesting and would accept if used in a movie:

*The idea that Jonathan and Martha find him (no birthing matrix) and claim him as their biological son
*The idea that no one would think he had a secret identity because he doesn't wear a mask and why would he pose as a human
*Better action and challenges. This is one thing Byrne did that I liked, then Jurgens took it to another level entirely.
*The Kents alive. I actually don't like this but I love Ma and Pa Kent and so I'd be okay with it
*Lower powered Superman. I don't insist on planet moving power level.
*Corporate Lex. As long as it is made clear that he made his fortune from science and is a genius, both of science and industry.

Byrne's changes that I just cannot accept:

His Krypton. Everything about it from the horrid designs to the cold culture. The only halfway interesting thing was the people dying from Kryptonite poisoning, and he took that from Argo City

Clark as the real person. I support Superman as the reality and Clark as the construct, but I actually feel it's best left ambiguous.

One-dimensional "Big Blue Boy Scout" country bumpkin Jethro Superman who is sneered at by other heroes and is Batman's *****. Not acceptable ever under any circumstances.

Stud Clark. Let's see as Clark he's a successful high school football player, then a novelist, and women want him, and turning into Superman makes him...what? From great to god? No clutz Chris Reeve Clark but as least make him somewhat shy and retiring.

Kurosawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:12 AM   #58
SuperDaniel
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,782
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Kurosawa, i`m not going to waste my time arguing again over the same points.

Horrid designs? That`s probably the best looking and iconic Krypton ever. I`m not too fond of the cloning story and all too but those designs were great. At least it felt like an alien society which is the way it should be. I think it should be a mix of all Kryptons, a bit like the animated series.

PS: Getting rid of Superboy was the best thing he ever done. That character is LAME and pointless.

SuperDaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:21 AM   #59
Webhead2006
The Web-Swinger
 
Webhead2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 39,735
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

well for me like i keep saying i hope they take a look at the whole history besides bryne and take the best stuff from each era and combine it all and round out the characters.

__________________
Warner Bros Restructure's Dc comics into DC entertainment. Hopefully more characters and long in developmental hell projects can make it into the big and small screens soon.

Marvel and the House of Mouse?
www.ItsJustMovies.com
Webhead2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 03:15 AM   #60
JL Unlimited
Side-Kick
 
JL Unlimited's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 394
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Earle View Post
That's both good and bad.
Surely Nolan knows how to write magnificent stories, but on the other hand they had to restrain him from removing the cape, grapple gun and other elements because he found them stupid. His realistic world is not only an artistic vision, but its also because he was afraid to adapt the comics as they were. Afraid, found them ridiculous, only he knows.
I've noticed you been saying this a lot in complaint of having Christopher Nolan in charge of overseeing Superman but I've followed the filming of The Dark Knight closely and seen every behind the scenes extras and every interview done by both Nolan brothers and Goyer for both Begins and TDK and I don't ever remember them saying Chris wanted to get rid of the cape or grapple gun because he found them stupid. I do remember them mentioning that Chris wanted to have an explanation on why certain elements would exist in the world they were creating for Begins in order for it to be included in the movie but that's not the same as saying he didn't want them in it because they were silly.

Anyways, do you have a link or can you point me in the right direction on when this was mentioned?

JL Unlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 03:30 AM   #61
sf2
Side-Kick
 
sf2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,952
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperDaniel View Post
The whole idea that Byrne`s Clark is real and Superman is the desguise is BS. Byrne never wrote that. It is the people who misread the whole thing. Go read Man of Steel 1. Metropolis Clark, the disguise is there, glasses, posture, hair combed back and all.

After Clark left Smallville, he rescued people around the world till that one day he had to make a public appearence by saving a NASA space bus. He had no uniform on and Lois called him Superman.

Then, he went back home, overwhelmed by people`s reaction and scared that he wouldn`t be able to live a normal life anymore. So they design the "Metropolis Clark Kent" persona and then give Kal a costume so he can be free to use his powers to help people. It`s not that Superman is a disguise. He is real, him wanting to help people, being a symbol for them.

Regarding Metropolis Clark, he made the character much more believable, added more layers, made him realand made the difference between Clark and Supes much more psychological and the key to the secret identity is not acting like a fool or a charicature but how people percieve Superman: They see a symbol, someone so alien, so detached from our lives the people don`t see Supes in a normal guy with glasses.

Moreover, Clark is now is an accomplished writer who uses his job to spread truth over cases and control the information on Superman. He is a good reporter, someone who would be rival of Lois Lane since he scooped her on the Superman story.

Lois is also a modern woman, spunky, etc. Basically the Lois you see today, someone who is very independent and all, and not the damsel in distress joke you see in pre-crsisis.

Also, Luthor is not a scientist who wants to rule the world. He is a corporate genious who controls technology and Metropolis.

All in all, Byrne removed all the camp and charicature portraits of the most important characters of the Superman mythos and made them believable.
nice. i can go with that.

__________________
“Everything you can imagine is real.”
― Pablo Picasso
sf2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 03:40 AM   #62
BH/HHH
Cavill's Hairychest
 
BH/HHH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Leeds
Posts: 14,838
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Some people referrung to his toned down powers seem to be exagerating, yes he couldnt juggle planets etc but he was still very much powerful. He just could take a beating aswell as dish one out.

__________________
MAN OF STEEL


THE GREATEST COMIC BOOK MOVIE OF ALL-TIME

Last edited by BH/HHH; 02-25-2010 at 03:53 AM.
BH/HHH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 05:44 AM   #63
rocco2216
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 926
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

So, how toned down are Superman's powers in Byrne's?

rocco2216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:00 AM   #64
Young Superman
The Last Son of Krypton
 
Young Superman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,328
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

The five things I love about Byrne's Superman that I think shouls be included in the movie.

1) Superman being the sole survivor of Krypton.
2) Corrupt businessman Lex Luthor.
3) Clark as a real man and not a bumbling idiot.
4) Both the Kents are still alive.
5) Superman's toned down power level.

__________________
Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul I swear: until my dream where dignity, honor, and justice becomes the reality we all share I'll never stop fighting. Ever - Superman
Young Superman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:06 AM   #65
Daybreak_st
Old-School Comic Cool
 
Daybreak_st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

THe new krypton currently in comics allows for a bit of both versions of krypton as their society is divided into guilds. THe science guild is more cold and calculating, jor-el belong to that guild, there is also the arts guild, their designs are reminincent of of golden age krypton, supergirl's dad Zor-el was a memeber of it, the military guild, zod, ursa, and the labor guild, who did all the hard work. They've done the best job of fleshing out krypton in my opinion in showing it was a diverse society. Oh yeah, there's also a religious guild. But if they go with this version they can show quite a bit of interesting mythology of the culture.

Daybreak_st is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 06:17 AM   #66
knowsbleed
electrically relaxed
 
knowsbleed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 20,888
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

In my opinion they will need to raise Superman's powers from the last movie. He was barely able to handle a falling plane.

__________________
Look for the ridiculous in everything and you will find it. - Jules Renard
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicChick View Post
knowsbleed is a vagatarian
knowsbleed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:15 AM   #67
Crook
Banned User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 16,301
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

...and was able to lift a damn island. Big gap there. He should have a little difficulty in doing the more amazing things. It's why everyone's so bored with the character. He's seen as too godlike and invincible.

Crook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:25 AM   #68
The Guard
Side-Kick
 
The Guard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 25,804
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

I'm so sick of this "It has to be one or the other" nonsense. The modern Superman stories have the blance almost down, taking inspiration from the movies, the Golden Age, the Silver Age, and the Bronze and Modern age.

And on a seperate note...

Quote:
I hate it! Its so... cold and impersonal... Clark's origin is all about love and this doesnt seem right.
His Byrne origin was about nothing BUT love. Look at the final interaction between Jor-El and Lara. Their culture essentially forbids it, but they love each other desperately. And they love their son so much they send him away to survive.

__________________
Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL

And if I'm right
The future's looking bright
A symbol in the skies at night

Last edited by The Guard; 02-25-2010 at 08:28 AM.
The Guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:26 AM   #69
8Diagrams(WU)
Side-Kick
 
8Diagrams(WU)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Slums of Shaolin
Posts: 969
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

The byrne run was pretty damn good. A more grounded version of the characters.

8Diagrams(WU) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 08:37 AM   #70
ZIPBAGS
Side-Kick
 
ZIPBAGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,170
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

I would love to see these scenes done if they ever do a Superman/Batman movie...
(go to about 7minutes in...Stay with it for 3 minutes.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BjBghmDL8Q

ZIPBAGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 09:04 AM   #71
Bad Superman
World's Grimmest Hero
 
Bad Superman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: At Bibbo's Ace O' Clubs
Posts: 12,215
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

They have the first six issues on TPB. I recommend it.

__________________
"There’s no need to "modernize" Superman in order for the character to be appealing to the new generation. Superman is not a brooding angst ridden conflicted hero. He is a beacon of hope and his mission is to fight for Truth, Justice and the American way. Superman doesn’t need to wear an armor suit. He’s THE Man of Steel. There’s no need to “modernize” the suit for it to be more “dark” and “edgy”. If today’s generation can’t accept the character’s roots and essence, then they’re not true fans."
Bad Superman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 12:58 PM   #72
protocida
Side-Kick
 
protocida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,679
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

For me, this is the definitive origin and the research source for the movie:



And I also don't like the Birth Matrix.

protocida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:08 PM   #73
SuperDaniel
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,782
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

^HELL NO. Superboy, Chipmunk Clark and Donut Parasite? I`ll pass!

SuperDaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:10 PM   #74
Michael Corleone
Don Corleone
 
Michael Corleone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: D.C.
Posts: 4,182
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
I'm so sick of this "It has to be one or the other" nonsense. The modern Superman stories have the blance almost down, taking inspiration from the movies, the Golden Age, the Silver Age, and the Bronze and Modern age.

And on a seperate note...



His Byrne origin was about nothing BUT love. Look at the final interaction between Jor-El and Lara. Their culture essentially forbids it, but they love each other desperately. And they love their son so much they send him away to survive.
Folks are taking the Byrne reference too literal. I think it will be an amalgamation of the modern versions and Byrne is certainly the most notable of that bunch. I don't see it being an all or nothing situation. They constantly talked about Batman: Year One when Begins was being released, but the film wasn't a literal translation of that material either. I fully expect to see elements from Man of Steel in the same manner that Batman Begins had elements of Year One.

__________________

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science"
Albert Einstein

Michael Corleone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2010, 01:10 PM   #75
SuperDaniel
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,782
Default Re: So please tell me about this John Byrne era

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
His Byrne origin was about nothing BUT love. Look at the final interaction between Jor-El and Lara. Their culture essentially forbids it, but they love each other desperately. And they love their son so much they send him away to survive.
THANK YOU! People need to learn how to read some goddamn comics instead of talking BS.

SuperDaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.