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Old 04-03-2010, 05:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Truth is, Superman can never be at the same level of 'real world' as the current Batman, it's a simple case of Batman being human and that's as real as you can get. But there is one aspect from Batman which could be incorporated to ground things a little more, I think using a real city to play Metropolis like Chicago played Gotham would be a good move. Gotham was a character in and of itself, Metropolis should be handled in the same way, although I think iconic cities like NY should be avoided.

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Old 04-03-2010, 05:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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The studio has said plenty of times after SR that the next film will be darker and grittier (ie: more realistic).

Obviously they felt SR wasn't realistic enough.
As long as they don't make Superman himself darker, grittier, and hipper, then that's fine. His surroundings should be darker of course, which would be caused by the villain, but SUPERMAN himself should be this bright, colorful, character that oozes hope when the public sees him.

I think people want to see what a Superman film can really be all about. They, and we, want to see a Superpowered being just as strong as superman taking him on, and this is where I would want realism to come into play.
It really should be shown what exactly would happen if two beings that were able to move mountains actually fought. The collateral damage would be incredible. The city and surrounding country side would pretty much be in ruins. It shouldn't be sugar coated either. Civilian deaths would happen. Supes would try to prevent as many deaths as possible of course, but he couldnt save them all.

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Old 04-03-2010, 05:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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I would say that the key is keeping Superman just as awe-inspiring as he can possibly be while displaying him in a very realistic environment. This is not Timm's animated show, so I say stay away from making the environment all future-techish or as with SR, semi-noir. I want to imagine that Superman could really show up in a real, live city that has a Starbucks on every corner or a local sports team or whatever.
I agree. Part of the fun of live action is that sometimes we get to see "real life" version of something that would otherwise exist only in the imagination. Since Superman takes place on earth, I think that they should try to make the earth he lives on ring true with reality. The Dini / Timm version worked great in a cartoon, and the comic version works fine in colorful drawings, but I think that the prospect of Superman in a realistic, believable setting would be cool. Superman should be what gives his world a sense of fantasy, not the other way around.

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Old 04-03-2010, 06:01 PM   #29
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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You just take the present real world, and throw Superman and Brainiac into it.


It's that simple. Two hyper-realistic characters in a realistic world.


They haven't done that with Superman yet, but it would work well and make his story more relatable. It would make Superman seem like such a shocking outworldly phenomenon that challenges our perceptions of reality.
It's far from simple actually. Because a human-looking alien would provoke much more skepticism than admiration. And it's a human-looking alien who chooses to wear a red cape and tights. There's a lot to justify in a 'real world' and at the same time you can't radically change it.

Now Nolan felt that his Joker needed make-up and the comics' traditional white skin was far more believable than the Superman concept.



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The glasses thing works because people aren't looking at Superman and wondering who is he is. They know who he is, he's Superman. He's this godlike being that could in no way live as a human being. Even if someone gets the thought in their head that Clark could be Superman, they'd likely dismiss it as quickly as they would if they thought for an instant that Clark (or some other random guy on the street) is Jesus Christ.
Iím not too sure. A face is a face. Supermanís face is famous and Clark knows a lot of people.

If someone that looked like Elvis (but with glasses) would walk next to me Iíd notice the resemblance even when I know Elvis is dead (is he right?).


And then again wioth Lois, thereís no excuse. In no way would she not see the resemblance, no matter how Superman is not supposed to have a secret identity (an idea which I think more than somebody would think about).

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Eh...for me to imagine a more 'real world' take on Superman and have it be contemporary would require significant changes to the most fundamental elements of Superman - the origin, the costume, etc. - with the more fantastic elements rooted in the sort of 'used 'n' gritty'/'immaculate reality' territory of sci-fi ("A New Hope", "Alien", "Blade Runner", "Robocop", etc.). It would probably end up being more trouble than it's worth to me to take that route.
I agree. Except that it could be very inetresting, but we have to accept certain adjustments. It is then when Iím happy that the Nolans are directing this because they like to take risks.



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Old 04-03-2010, 07:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I would take a lesson from the TV show V and highlight the public's reaction to someone like superman. Also make people have real world conversations, seriously address the fact that superman and clark look alike one way or the other. I mean in batman rachel realized he was bruce when he simply quoted something he said, but lois can't figure it out when she's staring the same man in the face. Come on.

Also i'd have a realistic reaction from the military with someone like sam lane, and even media hysteria. I always like the idea of superman spawning a superhuman arms race of sorts, with various facilities racing to create another superhuman. Maybe after the brainiac attack. The reverse engineer some of his tech to create metallo, they get a sample of supes blood to create bizarro, parasite is created when they try to figure out a way to drain superman's energy, things like that.

A big part of making it "authentic" is real conversations, all the main cast should come across as real people, and say things that real people say, as an audience member if your sitting their thinking, why doesn't lois ask this, or why doesn't clark just say that, then the conversation is written unnaturally to advance the plot and it lacks believability.

Other than that BB did a good job with technology, so did Iron Man. Definitely play up the scifi element, but treat is as "authentic" as possible verse what happened with Fantastic Four, in which non of the technology came across as believable.

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Old 04-03-2010, 08:58 PM   #31
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Well... the Nolans already brought this to the table with Bats, and I think the formula should be the same. Basically in BB and TDK you have a real city with real people who react strongly in very different ways... some very strong rejection, some skepticism and some very hopeful. In order to make Superman more real world... well... it's basically that, just much more exaggerated. If the reaction to a regular guy fighting crime was already strong in many ways (not only in society... also in type of criminality), the reaction to a GOD fighting crime in open day with his face on the public should be even more violent and extreme in all cases... much more polarized even than in Gotham, specially considering that the threats that Supes can bring as a rection to his presence are much more serious and on a global worldwide level than the ones of Batman...

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Old 04-03-2010, 09:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Iím not too sure. A face is a face. Supermanís face is famous and Clark knows a lot of people.

If someone that looked like Elvis (but with glasses) would walk next to me Iíd notice the resemblance even when I know Elvis is dead (is he right?).


[FONT=&quot][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]And then again wioth Lois, thereís no excuse. In no way would she not see the resemblance, no matter how Superman is not supposed to have a secret identity (an idea which I think more than somebody would think about).
Unless Superman hypnotizes everyone he meets to see him differently, or wears make-up and prosthetics as Clark to completely disguise his appearance, then the whole "people don't see what they're not looking for" excuse is going to have to do.

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Old 04-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #33
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

some great comments guys. And i am sure we will probably not see an ultra realistic world like nolan did with batman. That worked for what batman is. And nolan has been on record he knows the differences between the characters. So hopefully they will embrace the more scifi/fantasy stuff there is with superman. They just need to define the rules of the world and how the world is prior to clark's public reveal as superman and how the world adapts to a super powered god like being among them and all that.

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Old 04-04-2010, 04:42 AM   #34
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

One of the reasons I love All Star Superman is that it fully embraced all the sci-fi and fantasy elements that is inherent with the character. It felt like a PiXAR movie! It was vibrant, fun, weird, exciting, colorful, but emotional and real at the same time.

I believe that the key to making the new Superman film resonate and feel real to the audience despite the larger than life sci-fi stuff is to make the emotions, motives, internal conflicts, reactions and interactions of the characters real, relatable, and believable.

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Old 04-04-2010, 07:35 AM   #35
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Unless Superman hypnotizes everyone he meets to see him differently, or wears make-up and prosthetics as Clark to completely disguise his appearance, then the whole "people don't see what they're not looking for" excuse is going to have to do.
Or if Clark amnesia-kisses everyone who has seen his face.

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Old 04-04-2010, 07:51 AM   #36
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Its awesome to see everyone in this thread on the same wave length for a change .......... saying that I've probably just killed this thread.

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Old 04-04-2010, 09:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Its awesome to see everyone in this thread on the same wave length for a change .......... saying that I've probably just killed this thread.
I think we all generally want the same thing ... it's just the fine details we disagree about.

I'm pretty sure we all want a Superman on the screen that we can almost believe exists. Sure, there are fantastical elements to the character but, if handled well, he can seem as real world to us as a train passing by on a movie screen.

Myself, I'd like to see scenes where we're standing next to someone and we're both watching as Superman lifts off into the sky. We'd see the witness and Superman's ascent all in the same shot. It would give us 1st person perspective. Sure we're not actually on screen with the person but a good film-maker could place us (the camera) into a crowd where we'd feel like we were.

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Old 04-04-2010, 11:48 AM   #38
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I think we all generally want the same thing ... it's just the fine details we disagree about.

I'm pretty sure we all want a Superman on the screen that we can almost believe exists. Sure, there are fantastical elements to the character but, if handled well, he can seem as real world to us as a train passing by on a movie screen.

Myself, I'd like to see scenes where we're standing next to someone and we're both watching as Superman lifts off into the sky. We'd see the witness and Superman's ascent all in the same shot. It would give us 1st person perspective. Sure we're not actually on screen with the person but a good film-maker could place us (the camera) into a crowd where we'd feel like we were.
I feel, that we are all on the right lines Ė itís how the public reacts, is how the mood of the film is defined.
Superman returns was for a lot of people, a new introduction to superman. All we had from the public was stare, cheer, or take photoís.
He was gone for 5 years, were the military glad he was back? What did the American president have to say about it? Children aged 7 Ė 9 would be in awe of him as they never knew him when he was on earth Ė scientists would want to know where he went, NASA would be keen.
We have, in our society, Big brother style cameraís, with facial recognition Ė how could clark and superman not be compared or traced?
Could a UFO really glide through our atmosphere in the early 80ís and not be traced or found?

I feel, along with another poster, that we should see superman, on screen, for the majority of the time, how the 3rd person does, i.e, from afar, or diluted by people in our way. We should never have a clear shot, right up close, we need to use our imaginations. Also, if itís not obvious to us, that itís clark, it wonít be either to the public.
2ndly, I feel when he is superman, he should be able to release some form of kinetic energy, which from afar make him glow, disrupting camera shots and pictures taken of him Ė kinda making the shots blurry, maybe like when you take a picture in the mirror, the flash or light is reflected right back at you Ė this could also be explained as alien activity Ė making him seem even less human.

Superman should rarely land, always hovering about 4 feet above the ground, this would make him seem even taller as you are always looking up at him.
A lot of scenes could be shot, so that the sun is behind him, making him only a silohette.

I believe when superman is on screen, he should change his character, so that he appears more alien, sure he can be kind, smile, speak, but he should be really calm, almost look lost in thought or as if he is dissecting each comment made.

Other countries will see him as a threat, or a bio chemical agent of war Ė
Itís quite the same as, if a man landed on earth tomorrow, rescued a crashing plane, how would we react, how would obama and gordan brown react, what would religious figures say, the pope would say it was a second coming, scientists would say it opens up the possibility of other life forms, it would change how we view the world over night

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Old 04-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I think that Superman being an alien should not be known to the public, at least initially. Then, Lex Luthor starts connecting the dots and figures it out, and then he outs Superman to the public in order to heighten people's fear of him. After that, Superman has something to prove, and he has to work hard to show the people that he's one of them, and not an invader who wants to set himself up as overlord.

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Old 04-04-2010, 12:29 PM   #40
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Or if Clark amnesia-kisses everyone who has seen his face.
Heh, I forgot about that possibility.

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We have, in our society, Big brother style cameraís, with facial recognition Ė how could clark and superman not be compared or traced?
Could a UFO really glide through our atmosphere in the early 80ís and not be traced or found?
I doubt we'll have any of these questions answered. After all, how have the police and press not traced Bruce Wayne to Batman? It's never really explained in the movies; you have to just go with it. In the long run it's all fantasy so we don't need to think too hard about these kinds of issues.

I could see Lex eventually finding the UFO, though.

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Old 04-04-2010, 03:16 PM   #41
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I don't think i'd even want Supes to know he's an alien until well into his adulthood.
He would have always suspected of course with all he can do, but he never knows for sure.

I'd want lex to have a different rival when he was younger..Morgan Edge. Both are up and coming CEO's and trying to get a one up on the other.

I think i'd like to see Morgan Edge find the ship when Clark is just a baby.
Maybe Jonathan thought he hid it well enough or something but didn't.

Anyway, Edge finds it, ships it back to edge industries, tries to crack the tech, fails, Lex learns edge has it, and steals it.

It's only when Clark grows into adulthood and makes his first few appearances as Superman that Lex puts two and two together and figures out that the ship belongs to Supes.

The public would love Superman and Lex would loathe him. So make Lex be the one that tells the world that Supe's is an alien. By revealing it, Lex hopes it will make the public turn on Superman, and a few do, but most don't care.

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Old 04-04-2010, 10:24 PM   #42
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Nolans Superman would basically take the aesthetics of donner's superman and take it a level further in terms of how real the characters seem.

For example, there's no doubt that nolan making gotham city chicago was inspired by donner making metropolis nyc. I think image wise, things would be a lot similar to donners superman, while character wise, things would be presented in a more complex manner.

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Old 04-04-2010, 11:20 PM   #43
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

there is just so much they can do with superman. i hope they make the best decisions this time out. To make it a fun, good looking, and a film filled with great characters we feel for and believe in and all.

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Old 04-05-2010, 01:14 AM   #44
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Nolans Superman would basically take the aesthetics of donner's superman and take it a level further in terms of how real the characters seem.

For example, there's no doubt that nolan making gotham city chicago was inspired by donner making metropolis nyc. I think image wise, things would be a lot similar to donners superman, while character wise, things would be presented in a more complex manner.
actually Gothams Look was inspiered by Michael Manns Movie HEAT.

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Old 04-05-2010, 10:15 AM   #45
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What point are you trying to make? that's common knowledge

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Old 04-06-2010, 05:09 PM   #46
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Although I do have a good deal of contempt for the very idea of "realism" in fantasy stories, there are certain things that are more settled in reality and that I would like to see in Superman. First and foremost, as I have long advocated, is a return to Superman having a strong social conscience and being the champion of the lower class and the oppressed. I'd like to see the authorities go after Superman, perhaps at the urging and the command of Luthor. I think the realistic way to look at Superman is to imagine what if he really existed, not just a person with his powers but with his beliefs, and how that could change society. And although I'm not a big believer in realism, I do feel that the best way to depict any sort of fantasy or superhero story is to play it straight, with humor when it is fitting but avoiding all aspects of camp or parody. Treat Superman and his world with the respect it deserves, and people will believe.

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Old 04-06-2010, 05:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

You don't try to make Superman real. You make the characters act as humans would in a world where Superman existed. You aim for verisimilitude, not realism. Let Superman be Superman, but make sure that the Lois, Jimmy, et al. are real human beings that we can related to, and do the same with Clark.

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Old 04-06-2010, 06:02 PM   #48
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I know this may be off topic...but something that would help out is the use of more physical flight FX. Less computer jive where possible. Lay off the pre-vis and break out the legit wirework if possible. That's another thing that helped BB and TDK. I never once spent time having to convince myself as to what was going on up on the screen. I just got lost in the story.
I'm going to have to disagree on the wirework, at least with respect to flying scenes. There was only one wirework scene that looked like flying and that was in Superman when we saw him fly in the Fortress of Solitude. Other than that, wireworks always look like what they are: people in harnesses in a gravitational field. Human eyes and brains have evolved so that we can see the effects of gravity: an actors arms droop, legs droop, or their midsection curves, etc. all indications that the body in question feels the force of gravity and thus, we can intuitively sense that the actor isn't defying gravity, but behind held up by a harness. Only with computer animations can we produce images where an entire body is defying gravity in such a way that is believable.

The wirework in BB and TDK is different, there it was proper. Batman can't fly, we have to see that he's a human under the influence of gravity and either gliding with his cape (which is a lame idea) or using a rope (or hi-tech cable) to swing from and so on. Superman flies, he defies gravity. Much more often than not, wirework just can't convince the audience of flying.

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Old 04-06-2010, 06:33 PM   #49
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actually Gothams Look was inspiered by Michael Manns Movie HEAT.
Actually, you're talking about something different. I'm not talking about the cities tone, I'm saying that Nolan wouldnt have even considered making gotham city chicago if he didnt see STM using NYC as metropolis.

Not to mention that only TDK's look was inspired by Heat. Besides the narrows, Batman Begins' gotham clearly had aspects of chicago as well.

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Old 04-06-2010, 06:45 PM   #50
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

The comic Supreme Power had some good stuff along these lines, how the public reacted to Mark, how the military treated him (and how they were terrified of him, and rightfully so), the relationship with the agents that were set up as his parents.

Not saying I want young Clark to vaporize a puppy with his heat vision or anything but JMS did some really good work on that book before it went to hell.

Unfortunately I don't think I'm explaining myself very well, I'd have to read the series again before I could go into any more detail into what I'm trying to get at.

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