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Old 04-16-2010, 06:09 PM   #101
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Here's my take on a 'realistic' Superman movie:

The movie should be darker than the other Superman movies, but not as dark as TDK,Watchmen and Sin City. Rather than make Superman dark (which of course would be stupid), we should make his world dark. Metropolis should be a dark and gritty city (but not Gotham dark). It should be a city in which despite being bright and clean, is filled with corrupt businessmen (ie Luthor) and gangs with hi-tech weaponry (ie Intergang). Metropolis basically a "modern" American city in a post-9/11 world.
Although Superman would be accepted by the general public, he would not be accepted by the police. Some cops (mostly Dan Turpin) see Supes as a vigilante who interfers with police work and they believe he would make them look bad. The government would set up contiengency plans for him to defeat him if he were to "plan" world domination. These would be the type of people that while not bad people, are just afraid that Superman would be corrupted by his power.
 
This would be the type of struggles Supes would be in.Kal would learn to earn the trust of those he saves despite his intimadating stature and how to ease peoples fears in dangerous situations. He's basically a noble, compassionate hero whose ideals don't fit with "realistic" ones (a la Captain America). He would feel that he's not doing enough to help humanity. The events that would REALLY shake him would be his first encounter with kryptonite, his failure to save a life him be defeated by the villain. He would then realize the limits in his abilities and that he can't save anyone. He would then comtemplate on giving up on being Superman and live a normal life as Clark Kent, a simple reporter with glasses. Then someone (Ma and Pa Kent or Lana Lang) would console him and say that just because he's defeated doesn't mean he should give up on his ideals and on his heroics. Then he would later discover how important an inspiration he is (for example Jimmy would appear on TV and tells how Superman influence him to be a better person). Now with determination, Clark would make a comeback as Superman and fight the villain in major battle and makes things right again. After that, not only he would gain the respect of the people who doubted him, but he would gain some heroic resilience. He would finally become the big blue boyscout that the comic book fans know and love.
 
To sum it up:

1.Villain defeats hero

2.Hero lets the world fall to pieces

3.Hero picks himself up and overcomes overwhelming odds to defeat their enemy and put the planet back together again.



I don't know where to post this, but I think it should be good in this thread.

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Old 04-16-2010, 09:07 PM   #102
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I don't really want Superman to be real world. That's what Donner and Singer gave us. With a "real world" Superman, you don't get alien villains.

I want a real world Metropolis, I want reactions to be of awe and wonder....

But I want it to be filled with fantasy and amazing feats.

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Old 04-17-2010, 11:53 AM   #103
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

some nice stuff there projects.

Robin well sure we dont want superman to be in a totally real world like we experience every day. But if we through in some elements of real world like stuff it can help development the world and characters while also having the crazy comicbooky/scifi-fantasy stuff happening too.

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Old 04-18-2010, 08:16 AM   #104
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I wanna see supes having to deal with the fact that he cant save everyone from the carnage Brainiac is causing.
For instance, in the middle of their knock down drag out fight, some buildings that have already been damaged are on the verge of collapsing. Supes tries to break away to save the occupants, but Brainiac wont let him..Brainiac keeps pounding and hitting supes each time he tries to make a break for it.

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Old 04-18-2010, 10:08 AM   #105
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Dave,

I actually don't think you can "make it like Batman". I think that is where the problem lies. The thing that makes Batman "real" is the fact he is real. No superpowers, no alien origins, realistic villians etc. Superman is a fantasy character and needs to be treated as such. I think if they try to tone Superman down to Dark Knight levels then it will be Superman Returns all over again. Superman getting knocked around through buildings and leaving a path of destruction whenever he battles his enemies is what he needs.

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Old 04-18-2010, 10:27 AM   #106
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Dave,

I actually don't think you can "make it like Batman". I think that is where the problem lies. The thing that makes Batman "real" is the fact he is real. No superpowers, no alien origins, realistic villians etc. Superman is a fantasy character and needs to be treated as such. I think if they try to tone Superman down to Dark Knight levels then it will be Superman Returns all over again. Superman getting knocked around through buildings and leaving a path of destruction whenever he battles his enemies is what he needs.

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I appreciate and understand your point of view but let me add another bit to chew on:

Superman's abilities are, I admit, hard to make 'real world' but you can make them plausible. You can say that he flies because the solar energy he absorbs creates a field around him that counteracts gravity and can be focused in a direction - affording him forward movement. That same field can explain his invulnerability and - handily - how that invulnerability can be turned off by certain conditions that would drive the solar radiation out of his body .. let's just say Kryptonite for arguments sake.

I think the problem with Superman Returns stems partly from Singer's inability to understand the character and his desire to make the franchise into a soap opera. In his mind, that might have been making the character more 'real-world'.

I, personally, love to have a plausible explanation for Superman's abilities. I'd prefer that they not come from the magic of 'fantasy'. I can go even further... I DO NOT want to see another Donner-esque version of Krypton that couldn't possibly happen... a world of crystal will not evolve life forms like us. It would be much better to have Krypton resemble Earth but with amazing looking architecture and landscapes.

All that aside, however, I want the characters in Superman/Clark's life to be people who might be a little larger than life but be someone who I can believe in. Real personalities reacting in fairly realistic ways. Admittedly, a lone woman or young adult would not place themselves in harms way constantly as Lois and Jimmy do.. and I can suspend disbelief there because there would be no drama without their actions, but I'd like them to act and speak like everyday people.

Metropolis and the citizens of that city should behave like everyday people. There should be nothing cartoony about them. Not all would trust Superman. Not all would hang out and watch air battles with Superman and his adversaries. The press wouldn't all be possitive. Some would side with Luthor in thinking the resident superhero is a menace.

There are all kinds of elements that would allow Superman to be more 'real-world'. I started this thread to see what people would bring to the party ... what elements they think the franchise needs to be more believable. I'd really like to see what choices you would make. Just to say he's a fantasy character and needs to be treated as such does you a disservice. I'm betting you have some really interesting ideas how to approach that problem without losing the fantasy part you like.

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Old 04-18-2010, 11:35 AM   #107
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I understand where you're coming from. Allow me to retort.

When I say "fantasy" I don't mean unbelievable. Superman's abilities grounded in some sort of science is a good idea. I think if they go down that road, it also has the potential for even more unrealistic elements, if the science used is shoddy.

My take would be something along the lines of Superman's invulnerability stems from Kryptonians having a denser molecular structure than humans. Strength, maybe due to Krypton having a stronger gravitational pull versus earth leading to Superman being able to lift objects easier than he would on Krypton. This could also lead to flight as well and speed.

Heat vision could be a little tricky but here goes...I will borrow an idea from Smallville, maybe having his heat vision triggered by high stress levels or anger. Super breath, maybe Kryptonians have stronger lungs due to the heavier air on Krypton leading to the air that Superman inhales condensing the air, slowing the molecules down making the air colder and exhaling it out. X-ray vision, his eyes are able to emit electromagnetic signals and at different wavelengths.

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Old 04-18-2010, 10:14 PM   #108
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Haven't read through this.

Just thought I'd finally chime in, if someone hasn't already stated the obvious.

>>


Basically... You don't worry about making Superman "Real World"

You worry that what is around him, feels like the real world, and when he enters... The real world sees a fantastical majestic being. All the thoughts a human can have of "What if I could fly?" or "What if super powers existed?" would now be seen in this SUPERMAN.

I don't think you need to "Marvel'ize" Superman by going overboard with scientific explanations.

You need to see that in the real world people get sick, people suffer, people die... Superman simply contrasts the human condition. Clark lives within the human condition (as a fly on the wall like Routh once said), knowing the responsibility he carries with his power as Superman.

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Old 04-19-2010, 01:09 AM   #109
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

well i think the thing we need to do is present the world superman and the characters live in is a realistic world. And they are real folks and have real problems. But then crazy stuff like alien invasions and laser weapons are things that can happen and all that. its that balance we need to find.

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Old 04-19-2010, 05:47 AM   #110
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Originally Posted by \S/JcDc\S/ View Post
Haven't read through this.

Just thought I'd finally chime in, if someone hasn't already stated the obvious.

>>


Basically... You don't worry about making Superman "Real World"

You worry that what is around him, feels like the real world, and when he enters... The real world sees a fantastical majestic being. All the thoughts a human can have of "What if I could fly?" or "What if super powers existed?" would now be seen in this SUPERMAN.

I don't think you need to "Marvel'ize" Superman by going overboard with scientific explanations.

You need to see that in the real world people get sick, people suffer, people die... Superman simply contrasts the human condition. Clark lives within the human condition (as a fly on the wall like Routh once said), knowing the responsibility he carries with his power as Superman.
Thanks for your input....

Just to clarify - when I posed the question 'How would you make Superman more 'Real World', I was actually speaking in short hand and meant Superman and his whole world. Anyone can answer any part of that - including the cast around him .... and I think that's what you were getting at.

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Old 04-20-2010, 10:59 AM   #111
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Looking forward to Superman: Earth One reboot of Superman in the comics world. Maybe Nolan and Co. will take that as a starting point. It seems as though they are rebooting Superman every 6 months over at DC, I think they have enough reboots to pick and choose from to make the movie everyone wants to see and make.

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Old 04-20-2010, 11:00 AM   #112
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Looking forward to Superman: Earth One reboot of Superman in the comics world. Maybe Nolan and Co. will take that as a starting point. It seems as though they are rebooting Superman every 6 months over at DC, I think they have enough reboots to pick and choose from to make the movie everyone wants to see and make.

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Old 04-20-2010, 03:16 PM   #113
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Totally why the heck do they need to consistantly reboot the dam character. At least stick with something already right. As for the earth one thing if it turns out to be a good take i wouldnt mind to see elements of it get looked at for the reboot film. And i am sure even though it isnt release yet for us general public fans nolan/goyer could probably get an advance copy of it to look at things to see if it has things they want to adapt from.

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Old 04-21-2010, 10:24 AM   #114
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

It seems like every time I go the comic store there is a new take on Superman it's getting ridiculous. They really need to consolidate the Superman stories, I feel like they are just going in circles. There is no reason for me to continue getting a series when I know they are going to reboot it in a few months. I should probably head over to the comic boards. lol.

Superman movie is gonna be epic!

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Old 04-21-2010, 11:58 AM   #115
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

If you enjoy the stories then buy them. If you don't or are so worried about continuity then don't. It's not like they can recall comics that are no longer "in continuity". If you enjoy the story then accept it. The character is fictional. None of it's real anyway. Just enjoy each take on the character for what it's worth. It's the best example of modern day mythology.

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Old 04-21-2010, 01:47 PM   #116
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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If you enjoy the stories then buy them. If you don't or are so worried about continuity then don't. It's not like they can recall comics that are no longer "in continuity". If you enjoy the story then accept it. The character is fictional. None of it's real anyway. Just enjoy each take on the character for what it's worth. It's the best example of modern day mythology.
Thanks for saying that. It usually tickles me the wrong way when people speak in such literal terms about these characters. Just enjoy the story for what it is.

When Ian Fleming wrote Bond it was one thing, when John Gardner wrote the series it was updated the the (then contemporary) 80's thus changing Bond's birth date by Fleming's writing (though Gardner did age him a little to kinda make it possible). Then when Raymond Benson took over the series it was again shifted to the 90's, which would make Fleming's books impossible because the character in his 40's would not have served in WW2 as Fleming wrote. When Sebastian Faulks wrote Devil May Care it was a Bond story set in the 70's and seemed to follow Fleming's story ending in the 60's and violated some of what Gardner wrote in the 80's. All the same character, same guy, but one could argue about continuity all day considering the shifting time frame makes some of the stories impossible or events in one authors time line invalidates another.

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Old 04-22-2010, 01:16 AM   #117
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

well i hope we get well liked and defined characters in this story.

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Old 04-22-2010, 10:45 AM   #118
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

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Thanks for saying that. It usually tickles me the wrong way when people speak in such literal terms about these characters. Just enjoy the story for what it is.

When Ian Fleming wrote Bond it was one thing, when John Gardner wrote the series it was updated the the (then contemporary) 80's thus changing Bond's birth date by Fleming's writing (though Gardner did age him a little to kinda make it possible). Then when Raymond Benson took over the series it was again shifted to the 90's, which would make Fleming's books impossible because the character in his 40's would not have served in WW2 as Fleming wrote. When Sebastian Faulks wrote Devil May Care it was a Bond story set in the 70's and seemed to follow Fleming's story ending in the 60's and violated some of what Gardner wrote in the 80's. All the same character, same guy, but one could argue about continuity all day considering the shifting time frame makes some of the stories impossible or events in one authors time line invalidates another.

Thanks, Chickscratch. You always have insightful comments which is refreshing on these boards. Great points about James bond as well.

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Old 04-22-2010, 11:54 AM   #119
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You are quite welcome man. People have to realize that if the publishers decide that this is the character, they are the ones who own it so it is. Bond born in the 20's, 40's, 60's is still the same guy because they own the character and say it is. It's fiction, if you don't like it don't pay attention. Same applies to other fictional characters.

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Old 04-24-2010, 12:05 AM   #120
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

well we can just hope they will treat the characters in the right way this next time.

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Old 04-25-2010, 07:08 PM   #121
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ok... Getting this thread back on track....


How would you handle Clark and/or Lois in a way that makes you believe they're real people?

Myself, I'd make Lois quite a headstrong individual but, when it comes to relationships, she's a tough nut. Her upbringing as an army brat to a decorated General would be a huge part of who she is.

As to Clark - he can't ever be the milquetoast bumbling shy guy. He's a star reporter, for pete's sake. There is no way he would be easily frightened. I'm not saying making him as tough as George Reeve's version of Clark but certainly a good bit of Dean Cain. And Superman should never be the real identity. It's a personna he adopted as an adult.

I'd like to see Metropolis as NYC. Nothing glossy

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Old 04-26-2010, 12:00 AM   #122
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It'd make the characters more human for one and take them beyond there personality types. I'd give the characters real background much like what was done with Bond and Vesper in Casino Royale. It could be in brief lines of dialog were Lois talks about living in her father's shadow etc.

I think i'd have a real build up to the classic romance instead of trying to shove all into one film. I'd have Lois really fighting her developing feelings for Superman for a variety of reasons. At the same time I'd have Clark do the same .

I'd take their romance from the standpoint of two people who come from very different backgrounds, with very different goals, neither of whom planned on a relationship but once they met they both kinda get in the way of their goals and they're kinda struggling against their feelings which of course only grows them closer together.

As for Clark i'd stray away from the bumbling geek stuff from the Donner era. I'd make him more of a low key kind of guy like George Reeves Clark Kent. He has a social life and has friends so he wouldn't be a loner in The FOS. Lois is the type of reporter to be confrontational , where as Clark is more likely to work behind the scenes. There opposites , a bit like Lennon and McCartney.

I'd change the idea of Lois being the established one to make them both rookie's. Lois would have been at the Planet longer but she wouldn't be the world famous Lois Lane yet . There you have the tension and back and forth of two younger people hungry for and that great story. I'd also show how much Clark loves his job and that it isn't just a cover for his Superman persona . The guy would love writing .

As for Superman, I guess i'd return him to his roots and give him much more of a personality and confidence . I'd return the charmer aspect of him and make him a bit green and overly idealistic and confident in how much of a change he can make.

However my idea's only work in an origin reboot.

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Old 04-26-2010, 01:53 AM   #123
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

some nice thoughts davis and frodo, i wouldnt mind seeing your ideas for lois and clark.

As for the city yea it would be great if they use a real city, doesnt really matter which in my opinion. But just dont have and famous landmarks of said city used. So you can really make metropolis its own look, and of course enhanced a bit with cgi and what not to make it a bit unique and all that.

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Old 04-26-2010, 07:07 AM   #124
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

I just want this Metropolis to ''look'' like a Metropolis. I never got a sense that it was like that in SR.

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Old 04-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #125
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Default Re: How would you make Superman more 'Real World'?

Great comments by Kevin Feige:

Quote:

SHH: One thing that has made "Iron Man" so popular is the humor in the movie, which is a combination of Jon and Robert and Justin on this one. Should we expect that same level of humor to carry over into "Thor" and "Cap" or do you feel that those need to have different tones for their respective environments?
Feige: You know, I think we've established a tone in the Marvel films that we like very much, which is to say there can be moments that are extremely sincere and extremely emotional and at the same time can have a lightness of touch. They're not always going to be the same and sometimes it's appropriate and sometimes it's not, but certainly, we're not afraid to... listen, I believe an audience connects with the characters if you make them laugh, if you bring them inside the joke they're more likely to be affected when you decide to turn it 180 degrees and make something more emotional and make something more touching. I think that worked extremely well in "Iron Man," I think it works very well in "Iron Man 2." In "Thor" and "Cap" we're going with that - not necessarily because that's what we've done in "Iron Man," but because that's what we like most about movies. Those are the kind of movies that we like to see, are the ones that aren't just dark to be dark or aren't just self-serious for the sake of having some sort of false sense of gravitas or something. We think our stories are sweeping, we think our stories are epic and we think they're important. At the same time, we know that they're popcorn entertainment and need to appeal to the broadest audience, and we want to keep them light and fun and frankly that's how you connect with a billionaire weapons industrialist that most of us have nothing in common with. I believe that's how we're gonna connect with the God of Thunder and that's how we're gonna connect with a scrawny kid in 1941 who wants to join the Army.
Honestly hoping DC has a similar approach to the new film. Making it "real world" doesn't mean "taking it too seriously" but writing in a way that plausible and crafting characters that come across as living breathing human beings rather than characitures.

As far as the Lois and Clark relationship i would really reference the L&C tv show as it has been the most realistic relationship portrayed so far, that had friendship at it's core and developed slowly over time. It never felt forced.

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