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Old 07-19-2015, 11:11 PM   #1
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Default Accuracy in Costumes

I was watching Movie Talk on Collider on YT, and they got to a point where they talked about the EW pics of X-Men Apocalypse. Kristian Harloff and John Campea didn't like how Apocalypse looked but Jon Schnepp did; but when it came to Psylocke, again Harloff and Campea didn't like how she looked but Schnepp did and said that it looked like she jumped right off the pages of the comics and Campea said "that's why I don't like it" and Harloff said it looked like cosplay.

My question is, is there a point where the accuracy of a costume for a comic book character who has a specific look being done right can be a bad thing?

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Old 07-20-2015, 12:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

Yes, but I do not think Psylocke is it. I think some costumes can be very accurate and look bad on the big screen. I imagine Psylocke will not be the problem, and quite honestly I don't think her costume looks any worse (as in exploitative) than the Wonder Woman one worn by Gal Gadot. Honestly, the Supergirl costume though in the CBS show looks better than either.

With that said, there are some superheroes that absolutely will not transfer to the big screen if done comic book accurately. I for one cannot imagine there ever being a Wolverine that would look good in tight yellow (or orange) leather with those things hanging of his head. Same for a Captain America that has actual wings on his head, or any of the Goblin costumes from the Spidey mythos (though what Sony came up with is arguably worse in all cases).

It just depends on how wacky the comic book costume tends to be.

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Old 07-20-2015, 03:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes






Okay, I'm very much on the "got to adapt things for the screen" page.
I mean, Batman all in black has been fantastic - but it will be neat to see him in his greys too.

However, we've had a few great examples of costumes sticking close to the comic versions with great success.
Chris Reeve carried off Superman's costume, about as close as it gets to the comics. Spidey has also always been very close and it's always looked goo.

So, I guess my position is that as long as it's recognizable as the character and looks cool, I'm on board.

But those photos, above, well Psylocke does look a bit cosplay, they didn't need to be so faithful there (could have made her ninja outfit more functional), but Apocalypse looks ****ing terrible. A truly iconic X-villain who looks like cosplay gone wrong - in fact some of the cosplay has actually been better.



With a big movie budget behind it, and a lot of tweaks, this could have been the basic look for the big A. Well, at least the face, the shorts are ridiculous. But it would still be better than what we've been shown for the actual film.

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Old 07-20-2015, 03:45 AM   #4
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

You seriously think that Apocalypse cosplay looks better than what's been delivered for a live action X-Men movie?

Sorry, but that's delusional.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:43 AM   #5
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I think not all super hero/villain costumes are created equal in general, add in pulling them off in a live action film and that's just one more hurdle. Psy-Locke's costume which looks like a sci fi stripper was always bad and it's terribleness is even more apparent when you look at it in live action. The black Ms. Marvel outfit is another one along those lines and I am pretty sure of myself that Marvel Studios will not touch that costume with a ten foot pole in live action and if it does appear it won't be to "honor" it. It will be to point out how stupid it looks. What Wilkinson has done with the Wonder Woman outfit, or what was done with the Asgardians, or Captain America is what should happen more often than not. The character should be recognizable first and foremost but if it means chucking certain elements so as to cut down on the goofy aspect? So be it. Again though, not all designs are equal. To my mind you don't need to radically alter the basics of Flash or Green Lantern too much. Martian Manhunter's traditional look, the cloak on a rope with buccaneer boots and a bare skin all over on the other hand ain't gonna fly.

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:47 AM   #6
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I believe some costumes can't be translated completely accurately onto the big screen, in today's world they'd just be too goofy looking to be pulled off. With that said though I believe filmmakers should do their best to keep the spirit of the costume/character. Take MOS superman suit for example, it's very different to what's in the comics but has enough in the design to stay faithful to the source material and IMO looks great. Now take Apocolyse, his suit itself is a good design, actually improving on what's in the comics IMO but the head and physique is too far away from it's source material to the point where it's unrecognisable as the character it's meant to be. I understand filmmakers want to get their vision on the big screen and overal the visual is only part of who they are but it is very important to who the readers have grown fond of over the years. To change them to the point they're unrecognisable is IMO disrespectful to their creators and their readers, we're going to the movie to see the character we've read about for years, not simply someone who acts similar to them and has their name.

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

The Psylocke look works for me. But that's mostly because I('m in) love (with) Olivia Munn.

As far as comics accuracy in costumes goes, I've never been a real stickler. It depends on what kind of movie the film makers are going for. The Chris Reeve suit wouldn't be appropriate for Man of Steel. Bale's combat armour suit wouldn't gel with Keaton's gothic horror look etc.


Apocalypse looks a bit dumb, but I love that he looks like a physical, tangible character. If they'd gone mo-cap there was always going to be that uncanney valley weightlessness to it.

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Old 07-20-2015, 08:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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Originally Posted by Majik1387 View Post
You seriously think that Apocalypse cosplay looks better than what's been delivered for a live action X-Men movie?

Sorry, but that's delusional.
Agreed.

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Old 07-20-2015, 12:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

Apocalypse's outfit at a whole isn't bad, it almost reminds me of who he looked during AoA; but the face is what turns me off to it.

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Old 07-20-2015, 01:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

To answer the main question, yes, I do think some costumes done 100% accurately can be bad, though I would argue quite a few of the ones that wouldn't work are just bad costumes to begin with. But overall, I think most costumes could be adapted to the big screen and be fairly accurate. There are always things you need to tweak and alter a bit but for the most part I think most costumes can be done with the right designer. I think Comic Book movies have been proving recently that alot of the costumes that people say "can't work in live action" actually can work in live action, you just need the right execution.

I'm not the least bit surprised that the X-Men costumes sparked a thread like this because it seems like Fox has always been afraid, possibly even ashamed, of the source material costumes. They even added a joke in the movie making fun of the costumes. I will never, ever agree that the X-Men costumes can't be done in live action, as I said, I think other comic book movies have proven this to be false time and time again. If the Batman, Superman and Deadpool costume designers can find a way to pull off their costumes, there is no reason why someone can't pull off the X-Men gear.

Personally I think the new Psylocke costume is great. I think it's refreshing that they finally got one X-Men costume right. The main thing about her comics costume that was going too far was always the thong backing and I'm 99.9% sure that when Olivia Munn turns around you won't be seeing that. I understand that some people don't have the same tolerance for the costume but I think it turned out great and I'm glad to see they adapted it for the movie. I think if the actress is comfortable wearing it then I just don't see the problem with it. If I'm being honest, I think the politically correct progressive agenda has started to go overboard a bit, I don't think we need stringent restrictions on skirt length or amount of skin showing, it's a comic book movie costume, lighten up. But that's just me.

The Apocalypse costume is terrible, comic accurate or not, that just looks like crap. That has more to do with execution than comic accuracy. Though I don't think it will be relatively hard to come up with something comic accurate for Apocalypse. Particularly if it's done with CGI motion capture, which is quite capable of doing justice to the comic book version of Apocalypse.

But at the end of the day, like most things, it's all subjective, in the eye of the beholder etc. etc. Some people are going to like it, some people aren't. But to me, most comic book costumes can be done in live action these days, one way or another, it just takes a creative designer that can execute the look with tweaks and materials that stay true to the comic but also look good on an actual person.

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Old 07-20-2015, 02:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
I think not all super hero/villain costumes are created equal in general, add in pulling them off in a live action film and that's just one more hurdle. Psy-Locke's costume which looks like a sci fi stripper was always bad and it's terribleness is even more apparent when you look at it in live action. The black Ms. Marvel outfit is another one along those lines and I am pretty sure of myself that Marvel Studios will not touch that costume with a ten foot pole in live action and if it does appear it won't be to "honor" it. It will be to point out how stupid it looks. What Wilkinson has done with the Wonder Woman outfit, or what was done with the Asgardians, or Captain America is what should happen more often than not. The character should be recognizable first and foremost but if it means chucking certain elements so as to cut down on the goofy aspect? So be it. Again though, not all designs are equal. To my mind you don't need to radically alter the basics of Flash or Green Lantern too much. Martian Manhunter's traditional look, the cloak on a rope with buccaneer boots and a bare skin all over on the other hand ain't gonna fly.
But some of this is iconography and what people are ingrained with. For example, people are so use to the iconography of Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man that to change it too much could be disastrous--just ask Sony about how soundly rejected Andrew Garfield's first costume was received in TASM1, even though it kept the colors and lenses, and much else.

Another way to put this is that Psylocke, despite X-Men being popular, is not iconic unto herself, so we all roll our eyes at the costume. But what about Wonder Woman?

Generally speaking, I thinking the "sci-fi stripper" jab could be equally made to Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman costume which shows off almost as much leg (which is to say almost all of it). It is so blatantly appealing to the male gaze that one wonders whether Warner Bros. had any choice in the matter of making that costume? If they had chosen to given her pants or any sort of armor would fans have accepted it?

Again, to me, the best compromise for how women are objectified in these costumes for live-action has been the new CBS Supergirl outfit. It kept the iconography, but clearly played down much of what male artists most ridiculously animated.

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Old 07-20-2015, 02:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I think the MCU has shown that it can be done right no matter how ridiculous the costume is in the comics, look at how great Cap has looked in all his costumes (though some say the Avengers one was a bit of downgrade) and look at how they made Loki look with the horns and everything.

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Old 07-20-2015, 03:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I think the vast majority of costumes can be translated faithfully with only a little bit of tweaking here and there.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I don't think the problem with the Apocalypse outfit is that its unfaithful. Rather, the problem is that it sacrifices faithfulness to the comic, only to replace it with its own different but equally bad look. Its unaesthetic, and looks out of place next to the other X-Men costumes.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

Not in the slightest.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:53 PM   #16
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I don't think the problem with the Apocalypse outfit is that its unfaithful. Rather, the problem is that it sacrifices faithfulness to the comic, only to replace it with its own different but equally bad look. Its unaesthetic, and looks out of place next to the other X-Men costumes.
Yup, at least if you're going stray away from the comics look, make something that looks good. It's just bad period.

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Old 07-20-2015, 05:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I hope this thread gets save and revived once the movie comes out to show how ridiculous some people sound right now.

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Old 07-20-2015, 06:15 PM   #18
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I hope this thread gets save and revived once the movie comes out to show how ridiculous some people sound right now.
Good for you that you like it, but it's not "ridiculous" for other people to not like it. It's just a really bad costume to me, it looks almost nothing like Apocalypse from the comics and it's just not really that cool looking regardless of accuracy. So far I'd say the reception to the costume is lukewarm at best.

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Old 07-20-2015, 07:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I think most superhero costumes would look weird if you just took them off the page and put them in a live action movie.

With funny heroes, like Deadpool or Spider-Man, I find that it's easier to get away with dressing in tight costumes, dressing in the vein of an animal, or things along those lines. With the lighter mood that's available you can round off the edges so it blends in better. Make it too serious and suddenly you might get a point where the hero suddenly comes off like a dude in a weird costume, and that's not good.

I also like some armor wearing heroes. Iron Man and Thor feel decently close to what they've looked like in the comics and they come off as something that feels right. Uncertain if they couldn't make Thor's helmet look good or if it was impractical though, but it probably has to be seen as an exception here.

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Old 07-20-2015, 08:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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You seriously think that Apocalypse cosplay looks better than what's been delivered for a live action X-Men movie?

Sorry, but that's delusional.

Happy to stick with my delusions, the cosplay isn't stellar - but then that's because it's cosplay. The live action costume we've seen so far is absolutely awful, which considering the budget that went behind it is just embarrassing.

At least the cosplay actually looks like Apocalypse ( although a very budget version I will admit). What does the live action version look like ?

A lot more like this



Rather than this





(which is what it should look like)

If that makes me delusional, well.............


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Old 07-20-2015, 09:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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But some of this is iconography and what people are ingrained with. For example, people are so use to the iconography of Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man that to change it too much could be disastrous--just ask Sony about how soundly rejected Andrew Garfield's first costume was received in TASM1, even though it kept the colors and lenses, and much else.

Another way to put this is that Psylocke, despite X-Men being popular, is not iconic unto herself, so we all roll our eyes at the costume. But what about Wonder Woman?

Generally speaking, I thinking the "sci-fi stripper" jab could be equally made to Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman costume which shows off almost as much leg (which is to say almost all of it). It is so blatantly appealing to the male gaze that one wonders whether Warner Bros. had any choice in the matter of making that costume? If they had chosen to given her pants or any sort of armor would fans have accepted it?

Again, to me, the best compromise for how women are objectified in these costumes for live-action has been the new CBS Supergirl outfit. It kept the iconography, but clearly played down much of what male artists most ridiculously animated.
I think WB had a lot of choice and it shows simply because it's not a straight up recreation of the classic WW costume. It's not a simple satin bathing suit design. It is an adaptation of a look she has sometimes had which itself is a variation on her classic look. The battle skirt does make a difference as compared to some Michael Turner styled shear, skin tight covering that seems to be giving her a Melvin, which too often artists have done for the classic WW costume.

As I said, classic Psylocke, from the comics, is the problem and recreating it in live action hasn't done the design any favors. If you have seen WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN, they did Betsy in an episode and it evoked her classic design from the comics, it was in her colors, it was a little sexy, you clearly could tell who the character was, it came off well. Adapting something like that would have been a better route I think.


Marvel and now WB have shown that you probably have to pick and choose the elements you include in costuming, even for iconic characters in this modern CBM age. Cap is identifiable as Cap, but he is not going to be wearing the classic costume into battle any time soon, the USO sequence not withstanding.

And it's worked I think. Again though, in general the designs that are good on the page, with adapting them for live action, tend to look good on the screen. Bad ones, like Psylocke or Ronan, tend to look bad, especially if you are going for comic accurate. That's my feeling, and it seems it's shared by a few others.

Do I think that we could have had over the years some more close to the comics designs? Yeah. I think there were indeed ways to adapt say, the mustard and brown Wolverine costume, or the Cyclops cowl look. But even then it wouldn't work in my opinion, to recreate them in exactitude. There would still be a need to change them given the differences between comic book style illustration and making clothing for a living breathing human being to wear on a movie set.

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Old 07-20-2015, 10:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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Originally Posted by Majik1387 View Post
I hope this thread gets save and revived once the movie comes out to show how ridiculous some people sound right now.
So everyone must think that Apocalypse looks great, or they're wrong? Interesting, I was under the impression this was all subjective.
For the record I do like the costume, but I don't have any prior knowledge of Apocalypse other than that he's Egyptian. So I understand why some are disappointed, he legitimately does look like Ivan Ooze.

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Old 07-21-2015, 12:24 AM   #23
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Happy to stick with my delusions, the cosplay isn't stellar - but then that's because it's cosplay. The live action costume we've seen so far is absolutely awful, which considering the budget that went behind it is just embarrassing.

At least the cosplay actually looks like Apocalypse ( although a very budget version I will admit). What does the live action version look like ?

A lot more like this



Rather than this





(which is what it should look like)

If that makes me delusional, well.............
I just want to point out to you that you said:

One costume is too close to the comics. It looks like cosplay.

One costume is too unlike the comics. It should look more like this cosplay.



With that said, I agree that the Apocalypse costume is disappointing.

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Old 07-21-2015, 12:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

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So everyone must think that Apocalypse looks great, or they're wrong? Interesting, I was under the impression this was all subjective.
For the record I do like the costume, but I don't have any prior knowledge of Apocalypse other than that he's Egyptian. So I understand why some are disappointed, he legitimately does look like Ivan Ooze.
Disappointed yes, but I do recall when everyone hated Anne Hathaway as Catwoman. Or, more pertinent, Evan Peters as Quicksilver and the design of the Sentinels. All three of those got rave from fans upon release. Ironically, I would even say the Peters Quicksilver and the Sentinels were better received than the Marvel one or Ultron army at the end of that movie.

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Old 07-21-2015, 01:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: Accuracy in Costumes

I know everyone brings up Ivan Ooze but I think he looks more like an adapted Kang the Conqueror and that's why accuracy is so important. These characters were given distinct looks for a reason. If Psylocke wasn't wearing the classic look she wouldn't look like Psylocke. Someone like Wonder Woman is lucky because there are so many different adaptations of her costume. There may be a line between adapted costume and cosplay but for some characters that line doesn't exist.

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