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Old 05-05-2010, 07:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

What's this thread about?

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Old 05-05-2010, 07:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

Read the posts and you'll probably find out.

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Old 05-05-2010, 07:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

Ehh, I don't like hearing complaining posts.

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Old 05-05-2010, 07:52 PM   #29
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alot ALOT more den 3
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Old 05-06-2010, 05:14 AM   #30
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I don't get the complaints. I thought SHIELD filled nicely the role of a supporting cast and didn't take too much away from Tony. And to those that complained that SHIELD gave him a magic cure by handing Tony all of his dad's stuff, they really didn't. He was still nowhere closer to the cure until he had glimpse from another angle at the Stark Expo miniature model.

Sure, maybe they could've shown him struggle more,but it's hinted at that he already tried every possible combination, probably in that 6 months time skip and was the rest of the movie preparing to leave his legacy. He was dying and he knew he could do nothing against. All he could do was to leave his legacy in capable hands and, well, have fun before he kicks the bucket.

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Old 05-06-2010, 06:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by dark_b View Post
-they didnt need to have a BW action scene.
-we didnt need to get 3 scenes with Fury. first at the donut shop,then he helps him with the poison.and then again for the Avengers
-after credits scene has nothing to do with the mai ncharacter but with a character that comes out in 12 months. show me Tony and not some hammer


i payed money for iron man.now that i know that they want to force characters in other movies to promote Avengers i will maybe not pay money for Thor.
Why are you so angry? From every one of your posts i get the feeling that you expected Citizen Kane and instead you got an Ironman movie which you didnt like.

I am with Ace of Knaves on this. Tony Stark is a big part of all the politics and organisations of the Marvel Universe and you cant have him without it. It would be like having Batman without a batmobile. Maybe you guys thought that Ironman would be taking down a couple of villains in each film, going through some difficulties and everything would be so cliche like that. Well its not.
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Fury knew because he had someone spying on him the whole film. He didn't have anyone spying on him in the first film. And what has Tony's dad's connection to Fury have anything to do with it? Howard Stark didn't know his son would have to stick palladium in his body did he?

Vanko knew?
Wasnt Coulson spying on Tony in the first one?
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I'm not trying to talk down to you. I just thought you was thinking the injection cured him.

I personally don't think it was sloppily written, it gave us a great moment when Tony realized that his father DID love him when he originally thought he didn't care about him. Was a great, touching scene.

Could it of been done better? Yea probably, but no film is perfect. And it wasn't exactly a disaster.
It felt weird to me. Tony tells us that his father was distant, then we see him being a douche to his kid, and out of nowhere he tells his son that he loves him.

The solution to the poisoning also came too easy, ok maybe not to easy but it wasnt dramatic. Natasha's injection had eased the symptoms and Tony was all cool so it seemed like he cured a flu, not lethal poisoning.

But these are just flaws that came from the way Favs told the story, which in itself was great in my humble opinion.

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Old 05-06-2010, 07:04 AM   #32
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Its weird to me that nobody complained about Shield in the first one but do now. Is it that Shield has a bigger role now? What did you expect, that Favs introduced Shield and Sam Jackson and wouldnt use them even more in the sequel?

Or is it that all the reviews written by old men who dont read comic books affected you opinion? "OMFG, TEH AVENGERS ARE RUINING MAH FILM!!!"

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Old 05-06-2010, 08:07 AM   #33
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Its weird to me that nobody complained about Shield in the first one but do now. Is it that Shield has a bigger role now? What did you expect, that Favs introduced Shield and Sam Jackson and wouldnt use them even more in the sequel?

Or is it that all the reviews written by old men who dont read comic books affected you opinion? "OMFG, TEH AVENGERS ARE RUINING MAH FILM!!!"
I'm 100% agree with you Mr Earle, this complain have absolutely no sense, everybody know that the SHIELD will have a role in the futur movies, and like Ace of Knaves have already said, their appearance don't change the importance of Iron Man in the movie, they are background characters, but it was clear that they will have more appearance in the second part, the opposite will have been dumb, it's cool to have a real sequel.

To complain about that, it's like that to complain about Joker appearance in the Dark Knight, he have a reference in the end Batman Begins, so it's logical to see him in the Dark Knight, it's the same thing for Iron Man 2.

For me, to have the SHIELD and the reference of the Avengers, are really great and it's the force behind the Marvel production, they are part of the same world, I relly wish DC movies will do the same, but apparently they will don't (according to Nolan).

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Old 05-06-2010, 09:06 AM   #34
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

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Its weird to me that nobody complained about Shield in the first one but do now. Is it that Shield has a bigger role now? What did you expect, that Favs introduced Shield and Sam Jackson and wouldnt use them even more in the sequel?

Or is it that all the reviews written by old men who dont read comic books affected you opinion? ''OMFG, TEH AVENGERS ARE RUINING MAH FILM!!!''
None complained because it wasn't noticeable. The complaint here is simple, the SHIELD stuff is simply poorly executed, the amount of screen time it chews up does nothing but further slow down a film that was already in the processes of unnecessarily slowing down. If Marvel (lets be honest, Favreau would have had little say in it) wanted this stuff in the film they should have built the film around it, instead the story that we start off with has to be shifted around to accommodate this added piece of plot that really serves no purpose. Here in lies the problems with the whole setting up for Shield/Avengers thing, it's a flawed concept for film. Solo films are not the place for setting things up because you take away important screen time for the character at hand, nor is the team up film itself the place for it because you can't afford to waste time at the beginning explaining how everything links together, but you have to do one or the other given the nature of the medium and somewhere along the line sacrifices have to be made. What is really needed is a film in between the solo films and the team up film to set everything up so that neither the solo flicks or the team up films are compromised but no-ones gonna make that film and no-ones gonna pay to see a film like that. If we think about it, TV really is the only medium that could do a proper build up to a team up event.

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Old 05-06-2010, 09:37 AM   #35
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

While understanding that SHIELD should be right at home in an Iron Man movie, I have to agree that the SHIELD elements aren't woven in well. There's gonna be SPOILERS coming up next.





The people saying the palladium poisoning solution is a deus ex machina are quite right. While it's not the cheapest deus ex, because they do spend some time showing him developing the solution after Fury hands it to him, it still comes relatively easy, and the payoff we get from seeing it becomes hollow as a result.

Compare this to Iron Man 1 where he developed the Mark III, and had to go through numerous testings and accidents before he succeeds. A similar buildup for the palladium solution would have made it more satisfying.

Another valid complaint about SHIELD was that they threw the pacing off somewhat toward the middle to end of the movie. They just should have been edited in better.

And I think I've said in a few threads already, I'm not a fan of the Black Widow character as used in IM2. She existed solely to:
-gather (very minimal) intel on Stark
-deactivate Whiplash's control on War Machine
-have a fight scene
All very minor things which we could have lost with no great detriment to the movie. She should have basically been a cameo really, and the development we were given with the Black Widow character was actually quite wasteful screentime, and better used elsewhere. They could have been given to Rhodey, for instance.

Also, was there a minor error where Coulson arrives to keep Tony locked in to develop his cure, but he goes off to deliver strawberries the very next instance?

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Old 05-06-2010, 10:00 AM   #36
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Also, was there a minor error where Coulson arrives to keep Tony locked in to develop his cure, but he goes off to deliver strawberries the very next instance?
That's not really an error. When Coulson sees him again, he even asks Tony how he managed to get off the perimeter.

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Old 05-06-2010, 10:20 AM   #37
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None complained because it wasn't noticeable. The complaint here is simple, the SHIELD stuff is simply poorly executed, the amount of screen time it chews up does nothing but further slow down a film that was already in the processes of unnecessarily slowing down. If Marvel (lets be honest, Favreau would have had little say in it) wanted this stuff in the film they should have built the film around it, instead the story that we start off with has to be shifted around to accommodate this added piece of plot that really serves no purpose. Here in lies the problems with the whole setting up for Shield/Avengers thing, it's a flawed concept for film. Solo films are not the place for setting things up because you take away important screen time for the character at hand, nor is the team up film itself the place for it because you can't afford to waste time at the beginning explaining how everything links together, but you have to do one or the other given the nature of the medium and somewhere along the line sacrifices have to be made. What is really needed is a film in between the solo films and the team up film to set everything up so that neither the solo flicks or the team up films are compromised but no-ones gonna make that film and no-ones gonna pay to see a film like that. If we think about it, TV really is the only medium that could do a proper build up to a team up event.
I strongly disagree with you, for me one of the quality of the movie, it's how they built all the Shield/Avengers story, and I really don't have seen that like a problem for Iron Man2 and really not imo a waste of time, but I guess that we have different sensibility about this subject.

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Old 05-06-2010, 10:25 AM   #38
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That's not really an error. When Coulson sees him again, he even ask Tony how he managed to get off the perimeter.
Ah, I missed that. Good to see they addressed it. It actually nagged at me a little bit.

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Old 05-06-2010, 11:50 AM   #39
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

Everyone was psyched when in movie one Coulson said, "Just call us S.H.I.E.L.D." That was a huge moment for the fans that everyone on this site loved.

And then Stark comes home and we see Samuel L. Jackson in full Nick Fury garb, "I am Iron Man'. You think you're the only superhero in the world? Mr. Stark, you've become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet...I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative."

Everyone erupts and goes nuts to that, it was almost comparable to the reveal of the Joker card at the end of Batman Begins.

And now, we are beginning to get the pay off and there are people complaining? That's like if the The Dark Knight featured the Joker and people complained that the Joker was in the film. Or if in SPIDER-M4N (had it been made) the Lizard had been in the film and people complained after Doctor Connors being set up for three films.

This is a natural progression. S.H.I.E.L.D., Black Widow and the Avengers have always been part of Stark's story. Just like War Machine, you can't tell and Iron Man story without at some point including all of these elements.

And I can't understand how you can be so pumped about it at one point, clamor for more and then be upset when it pays off, and apparently in a satisfying manner.

-R

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:08 PM   #40
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this is a live action movie and not a comicbook series over 6 months.

its a 2 hour movie. if this was 2 hours and 30 mintues then maybe it could work since it would give RDJ more time. but no. this is a light 2 hour summer movie . for 2 hours there is noooooooooooo way to tell this kind of story.

IM2 was for the marvel fans. you got it. you are happy. i am happy for you all. but for me its a disaster.
a disaster? really? drama queen.

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:25 PM   #41
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And I can't understand how you can be so pumped about it at one point, clamor for more and then be upset when it pays off, and apparently in a satisfying manner.
That's the issue really. I'd be very happy if they had pulled it off well.

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:27 PM   #42
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90% of them were in one scene, which i mentioned.

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

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Originally Posted by Robin91939 View Post
Everyone was psyched when in movie one Coulson said, "Just call us S.H.I.E.L.D." That was a huge moment for the fans that everyone on this site loved.

And then Stark comes home and we see Samuel L. Jackson in full Nick Fury garb, "I am Iron Man'. You think you're the only superhero in the world? Mr. Stark, you've become part of a bigger universe. You just don't know it yet...I'm here to talk to you about the Avengers Initiative."

Everyone erupts and goes nuts to that, it was almost comparable to the reveal of the Joker card at the end of Batman Begins.

And now, we are beginning to get the pay off and there are people complaining? That's like if the The Dark Knight featured the Joker and people complained that the Joker was in the film. Or if in SPIDER-M4N (had it been made) the Lizard had been in the film and people complained after Doctor Connors being set up for three films.

This is a natural progression. S.H.I.E.L.D., Black Widow and the Avengers have always been part of Stark's story. Just like War Machine, you can't tell and Iron Man story without at some point including all of these elements.

And I can't understand how you can be so pumped about it at one point, clamor for more and then be upset when it pays off, and apparently in a satisfying manner.

-R
fickle nature of fanbois....give them what they asked for and they still complain. I guess they were just supposed to throw them into Avengers with no explaination or foreshadowing.
Lets face facts Marvel studios has only one agenda..to make comicbook movies...they arent WB or Universal that can do movies about everything. Marvel has one shot to do this right. If the MCU fails then so does Marvel studios...so they need to link their films together...gain momentum on one and transfer it to others.

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Old 05-06-2010, 12:34 PM   #44
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None complained because it wasn't noticeable. The complaint here is simple, the SHIELD stuff is simply poorly executed, the amount of screen time it chews up does nothing but further slow down a film that was already in the processes of unnecessarily slowing down. If Marvel (lets be honest, Favreau would have had little say in it) wanted this stuff in the film they should have built the film around it, instead the story that we start off with has to be shifted around to accommodate this added piece of plot that really serves no purpose. Here in lies the problems with the whole setting up for Shield/Avengers thing, it's a flawed concept for film. Solo films are not the place for setting things up because you take away important screen time for the character at hand, nor is the team up film itself the place for it because you can't afford to waste time at the beginning explaining how everything links together, but you have to do one or the other given the nature of the medium and somewhere along the line sacrifices have to be made. What is really needed is a film in between the solo films and the team up film to set everything up so that neither the solo flicks or the team up films are compromised but no-ones gonna make that film and no-ones gonna pay to see a film like that. If we think about it, TV really is the only medium that could do a proper build up to a team up event.
It chewed up about... 15-20 minutes. And chewed up is the wrong word because everything was NATURAL to the Iron Man/Tony Stark character and his story.

And you STILL don't get it do you? Nothing was moved around to accomodate the SHIELD/Avengers stuff. The SHIELD/Avengers stuff didn't interfere with Iron Man's story.

Why?

Because SHIELD/Avengers IS Iron Mans story.

Like i already said, having an Iron Man movie without SHIELD/Avengers talk is like having a Spider-Man story without any mention of the Daily Bugle. It really is as simple as that.

Did the Daily Bugle scenes in the Spider-Man movies take away or interfere with Spidey's story? No, because the Daily Bugle IS a natural part of Spider-Mans/Peter Parkers story. Same way SHIELD/Avengers IS a natural part of Iron Mans/Tony Starks story.

Iron Man isn't just your standard superhero who goes around fighting villains and keeping the peace. Never has been, never will be. Iron Mans mythos is full of politics, conspiracies, espionage all that kind of stuff. So either get used to it for the movies, or just don't watch them.


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Old 05-06-2010, 01:57 PM   #45
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

I could understand the criticism if SHIELD served no purpose to the plot, that they were there for no reason. However, as far as I'm concerned SHIELD played an important role in furthering the character of Tony Stark. Thus I don't see the issue. I'm blue in the face explaining this.

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Old 05-06-2010, 03:41 PM   #46
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None complained because it wasn't noticeable. The complaint here is simple, the SHIELD stuff is simply poorly executed, the amount of screen time it chews up does nothing but further slow down a film that was already in the processes of unnecessarily slowing down. If Marvel (lets be honest, Favreau would have had little say in it) wanted this stuff in the film they should have built the film around it, instead the story that we start off with has to be shifted around to accommodate this added piece of plot that really serves no purpose. Here in lies the problems with the whole setting up for Shield/Avengers thing, it's a flawed concept for film. Solo films are not the place for setting things up because you take away important screen time for the character at hand, nor is the team up film itself the place for it because you can't afford to waste time at the beginning explaining how everything links together, but you have to do one or the other given the nature of the medium and somewhere along the line sacrifices have to be made. What is really needed is a film in between the solo films and the team up film to set everything up so that neither the solo flicks or the team up films are compromised but no-ones gonna make that film and no-ones gonna pay to see a film like that. If we think about it, TV really is the only medium that could do a proper build up to a team up event.
If you havent got it by now, you'll never get it. Shield is to Tony what GPD is to Bruce. Its an important part of the character, an organisation that helps him and works with him like Batman works with the GPD. If you think that the Shield helping Tony distracted us from the main plot (which was that Tony cant do this alone), then you might as well feel distracted by Gordon and the rest of the cops in the MCU. And just like the MCU had Gordon, the cop that wanted to beat the joker, the cop that kidnapped Dent and the cop that kidnapped Rachel and others, SHIELD has Fury, Coulson and Natasha and other agents.

WTH is people's problem?
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It chewed up about... 15-20 minutes. And chewed up is the wrong word because everything was NATURAL to the Iron Man/Tony Stark character and his story.

And you STILL don't get it do you? Nothing was moved around to accomodate the SHIELD/Avengers stuff. The SHIELD/Avengers stuff didn't interfere with Iron Man's story.

Why?

Because SHIELD/Avengers IS Iron Mans story.

Like i already said, having an Iron Man movie without SHIELD/Avengers talk is like having a Spider-Man story without any mention of the Daily Bugle. It really is as simple as that.

Did the Daily Bugle scenes in the Spider-Man movies take away or interfere with Spidey's story? No, because the Daily Bugle IS a natural part of Spider-Mans/Peter Parkers story. Same way SHIELD/Avengers IS a natural part of Iron Mans/Tony Starks story.

Iron Man isn't just your standard superhero who goes around fighting villains and keeping the peace. Never has been, never will be. Iron Mans mythos is full of politics, conspiracies, espionage all that kind of stuff. So either get used to it for the movies, or just don't watch them.
Exactly. Like Bruce manages his company and attends fundraisers, Peter works in the Bugle, Clark in the Planet and Tony invents stuff and is involved in politics. Sometimes he runs Shield, others he is a minister of defense, others he runs the Avengers, etc.

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

I posted this in the rate and review thread quite sometime ago and figured this would be the appropriate place for it. I just feel it needs a bit of repeating for those that missed it the first time. I just want to see if anyone else even bothered to think of this before complaining about S.H.I.E.L.D. and the other Marvel references.

Although I haven't seen the movie yet, I have made one oberservation that some people seem to be forgetting that quite frankly, I think is awsome.

Some of the complaints for this film are about how they put in a number of scenes with Nick Fury and other nods to the upcoming Avengers film.

People need to realize as Marvel's plan, they want the characters they still have the rights to, to be in one Marvel universe and I don't think that just means the Avengers. The problem I think is that people are still used to comic films where the character is seemingly the only one in his world like Spider-Man, Blade, Fantastic Four. I think this kind of throws people off to the cameos and nods to the Avengers film. If you think about it, all these nods and other characters in IM2 like Fury and Black Widow aren't just Marvel's way of getting ready for the Avengers film but for possible future characters that might be linked to other Marvel characters beyond 2012.

The reason I don't mind all this being shoehorned in(I can understand if it messes with the pacing of course)is because of the fact that when you read the comics for any Marvel or DC character, there does in fact tend to be other Marvel/DC characters that pop up from time to time, due to the fact that they're in the same world/universe. A great example is in Spider-Man when he has to go to Reed Richards to help him defeat Venom and Richards makes that sonic gun.

It's stuff like that in the comics that is entering the Marvel film world and quite frankly I get goosebumps just thinking about the possibilities after Avengers.

Of course when I see the film I may have similar complaints as others but thinking about that connection I made with the movies and how the comics have always been, I just may be a bit biased and not complain about the nods and cameos, regardless if they mess up the pacing.

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:34 PM   #48
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

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Originally Posted by Ace of Knaves View Post
It chewed up about... 15-20 minutes. And chewed up is the wrong word because everything was NATURAL to the Iron Man/Tony Stark character and his story.

And you STILL don't get it do you? Nothing was moved around to accomodate the SHIELD/Avengers stuff. The SHIELD/Avengers stuff didn't interfere with Iron Man's story.
15-20 mins that could have better spent on increasing the threat that was set up in the first act. I get it perfectly fine, If you can't see how badly forced in that Shield stuff was from a story telling perspective then there's no point really discussing the matter any further. The Shield nonsense is badly incorporated, if they wanted to included, they should have built the film around it.
Quote:
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Why?

Because SHIELD/Avengers IS Iron Mans story.

Like i already said, having an Iron Man movie without SHIELD/Avengers talk is like having a Spider-Man story without any mention of the Daily Bugle. It really is as simple as that.

Did the Daily Bugle scenes in the Spider-Man movies take away or interfere with Spidey's story? No, because the Daily Bugle IS a natural part of Spider-Mans/Peter Parkers story. Same way SHIELD/Avengers IS a natural part of Iron Mans/Tony Starks story.

Iron Man isn't just your standard superhero who goes around fighting villains and keeping the peace. Never has been, never will be. Iron Mans mythos is full of politics, conspiracies, espionage all that kind of stuff. So either get used to it for the movies, or just don't watch them.
I'm not paying to watch Avenger/Shield stuff. I'm paying, and so are the majority of the people to watch IRON MAN. It's as simple as that, people can crap on about the whole Marvel universe thing but at the end of the day most people don't give a damn, they want to see and Iron Man movie, and a good one at that, what we got was below par. Your fine with mediocrity? More power to you then.

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:55 PM   #49
kaijunexus
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

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Originally Posted by jmc View Post
I'm not paying to watch Avenger/Shield stuff. I'm paying, and so are the majority of the people to watch IRON MAN. It's as simple as that, people can crap on about the whole Marvel universe thing but at the end of the day most people don't give a damn, they want to see and Iron Man movie, and a good one at that, what we got was below par. Your fine with mediocrity? More power to you then.
I'm confused. Have you ever, in your entire life, read a comic book?

In essentially every Marvel or DC series, unless it is specifically stated that the series is stand-alone and unrelated to anything else, the characters ALWAYS cross-over into eachother's books.

Are you telling me that if you sit down to read Spider-Man and half-way through the Hulk shows up for some reason that pertinent to the story, you scowl and tear the book to pieces while exclaiming "This is supposed to be SPIDER-MAN, not HULK!!!!!!!1111"?

Or are you simply holding two different entertainment mediums to two completely different standards even when they're relating to the same story and characters?

Either way, you look pretty foolish.

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Old 05-06-2010, 04:56 PM   #50
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Default Re: SHIELD/Avengers complaints...

oh snap

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