Discussion: The UK Election Thread

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

What good is a roof over your head and food in your belly if you don't have equal rights? If you can't live the life you want to live? Frankly, I'd rather be homeless and starving but have equal rights than be well fed and sheltered but be oppressed.

That's not living, that's just surviving. In my opinion if all people aren't equal, if people don't have the freedom to lead the life they want to lead, to love the person they want to love, then it doesn't matter what else they have.

Equality and freedom are the only things that matter to me. Everything else is secondary

I can't speak for the UK, but for a lot of people here in the US...me included...its good enough

so this Clegg guy was the liberal candidate, what exactly does the Deputy Prime Minister do?? is it similar to our VP??

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

you can not be concerned about economics, and then you can not complain when produce or gas or anything else you might buy skyrockets in price

so how does this work now?? the third place guy gets to be Deputy Prime Minister?? how the **** does that happen?

The Conservatives didn't get the majority they needed to get legistration through parliment so they formed an unholy union with the Liberal Democrates.

Nick Clegg as prophesied by the media and election commentators thus became dubbed 'The kingmaker' as his party can give the Tories a majority.

They trade up policies and formed an allience just like they do in plenty of countries all over the world.

I don't see the problem really.

Cameron and Clegg are both public school boy types they always seemed to me like the same side of a coin just ones liberal and conservative.

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

I can't speak for the UK, but for a lot of people here in the US...me included...its good enough

So are you saying you don't care whether people have equality? I'm kind of saddened to hear that

It's not "Good enough" for me. If I, and those like me don't have the freedom to live our lives as we want to, then what's the point of living? What's the point of anything if we're oppresed and denied equal rights?

Freedom is the most important thing in the whole world. Without it, there's no point to anything.

[Addendum]

No one said there had to be a point

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

So are you saying you don't care whether people have equality? I'm kind of saddened to hear that

It's not "Good enough" for me. If I, and those like me don't have the freedom to live our lives as we want to, then what's the point of living? What's the point of anything if we're oppresed and denied equal rights?

Freedom is the most important thing in the whole world. Without it, there's no point to anything.

What I'm saying is that in my scant 31 years on this earth, Ive learned to pick and choose my battles....I have a job, I have a roof over my head, I have reasonable opportunities to continue my education (which I intend to do next year), I also volunteer my time....I know that my race will hinder and help me as I travel along

but Ive also learned how the PTB have rigged this game, and Ive learned to bend the rules to get by

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

I can't speak for the UK, but for a lot of people here in the US...me included...its good enough

so this Clegg guy was the liberal candidate, what exactly does the Deputy Prime Minister do?? is it similar to our VP??

Usually its a hounary title you don't do ****. Gordon Brown didn't even have one and alot Prime Ministers don't. I imagine Clegg will actually have stuff to do in his position seeming as its coalition goverment.

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

What I'm saying is that in my scant 31 years on this earth, Ive learned to pick and choose my battles....I have a job, I have a roof over my head, I have reasonable opportunities to continue my education (which I intend to do next year), I also volunteer my time....I know that my race will hinder and help me as I travel along

but Ive also learned how the PTB have rigged this game, and Ive learned to bend the rules to get by

I don't want to "Get by". I want to be treated like a human being. I want to be able to marry the woman I love just like anyone else would be able to.

If people just "Made do" with what they had then we never would have had the Civil Rights movement. If people had just "Got by" then we'd still have "Whites only" drinking fountains and segregation. Women wouldn't have the vote and would still be glorified slaves to men.

Getting by isn't enough. The only thing that matters in the whole entire world is freedom. That's the only thing I care about. Having the freedom to live how I choose to live,without the government trying to oppress or repress me.

All people everywhere, gay, bi, straight, Trans, Black, white, Asian Muslim, Jewish etc...we all deserve equality and freedom. That's the most important thing about life. Because if you don't have freedom and equality then you're not really living at all

So the only thing I care about is what the government is going to do for me and those like me. I want complete freedom to lead whatever lifestyle I choose to lead. I want gay marriage legalised. And I want full and complete equality, racial, sexual and religious. Those are the only things that are important to me

[BlackLantern]

at least I have chicken

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by chamber-music

Usually its a hounary title you don't do ****. Gordon Brown didn't even have one and alot Prime Ministers don't. I imagine Clegg will actually have stuff to do in his position seeming as its coalition goverment.

now as it is a "coalition government", this means that the two parties share power or what?

[Paradoxium]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

What I'm saying is that in my scant 31 years on this earth, Ive learned to pick and choose my battles....I have a job, I have a roof over my head, I have reasonable opportunities to continue my education (which I intend to do next year), I also volunteer my time....I know that my race will hinder and help me as I travel along

but Ive also learned how the PTB have rigged this game, and Ive learned to bend the rules to get by

****ing Ace

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

at least I have chicken

This isn't a joke to me Black Lantern. Nothing about this is funny. The fact that I'm now terrified what kind of legislation the Tories might introduce against people like me is not funny. The fact that I, and millions like me are treated like second class citizens by our own government isn't funny

[Paradoxium]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

now as it is a "coalition government", this means that the two parties share power or what?

Imagine if the House had seats dominated by Democrats and Republican mostly, and a Third Party. Third party decides to side with one party say the Republicans. Thus the two parties vote in pure conformity. It doesn't always workout this way. Maybe something they don't like legislation X and Third Party shifts to vote against the Republicans with the Democrats. This shakes the confidence and BAM election.

At least something to that effect.

A good example of a minority government forced into pseudo coalitions is Canada actually. However in Canada, the opposition (Liberals) simply don't show up to vote against legislation X, since they don't want an election every couple of months. Why? Because it would be unpopular with the voters to waste some much money having elections every year. And pragmatically it would hurt their own funding.

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by chamber music

Cameron and Clegg are both public school boy types they always seemed to me like the same side of a coin just ones liberal and conservative.

I think comparing anyone to David Cameron is legally considered slander

[chamber-music]

I understand everyones points on Thatcher. Yes she was good on the economics but at the price of destroying large parts of British society.

While she got rid of the public owned bussiness selling them off to private enterprise and taking down trade unions she didn't manage to attract or form any sort of plan to replace the local jobs of the people she put in unemployment when see closed mine, ect leaving alot of skilled men who may of worked in that industry and the families that relied on bussiness in that area with no other options.

Its why whole parts of nothern England have been on a long slide of decline for the past 30 years. All the skilled young people pretty much move away if they want a decent job and you end up with towns that cannot actract buisiness with people depent on welfare as they can't find employment.

From that you get the rise of crime, poverty, social alienation that comes from that. Alot of Camerons broken Britain can be traced back to Thatchers time as prime minister.

Britain had the highest child poverty rate in europe.

Hopefully Cameron can find a better balance his austerity measures under his term as prime minister than thatcher.

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

This isn't a joke to me Black Lantern. Nothing about this is funny. The fact that I'm now terrified what kind of legislation the Tories might introduce against people like me is not funny. The fact that I, and millions like me are treated like second class citizens by our own government isn't funny

pretty much how black people are....welcome

Originally Posted by Paradoxium

Imagine if the House had seats dominated by Democrats and Republican mostly, and a Third Party. Third party decides to side with one party say the Republicans. Thus the two parties vote in pure conformity. It doesn't always workout this way. Maybe something they don't like legislation X and Third Party shifts to vote against the Republicans with the Democrats. This shakes the confidence and BAM election.

At least something to that effect.

A good example of a minority government forced into pseudo coalitions is Canada actually. However in Canada, the opposition (Liberals) simply don't show up to vote against legislation X, since they don't want an election every couple of months. Why? Because it would be unpopular with the voters to waste some much money having elections every year. And pragmatically it would hurt their own funding.

got it...thanks

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

now as it is a "coalition government", this means that the two parties share power or what?

They work together as one goverment although the may differ on certain legistrations.

Originally Posted by Mystirious

I think comparing anyone to David Cameron is legally considered slander

They look a like similar backgrounds and politics aside probably have more in common than most people would think. They both have centre partys and policies which are not that too radical from each other. They both want stronger a proper border control. They both want less big goverment. There is more common ground than you realise if you look closely and that inevitable when both parties move into a centre political standing.

[BlackLantern]

I should have written in a vote for John Simm

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

pretty much how black people are....welcome

I'm not claiming that we're the only people to suffer discrimination. I'm for freedom and equality for all people, not just those who are LGBT.

But I would point out. In the time it's taken us just to get the right to have "Civil partnerships" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean, you could have gotten married and divorced a hundred times over.

So I hope you can understand why freedom and gay rights are the things that matter most to me when it comes to politics. And I'm rather surprised that you don't think they matter. Freedom and equality are the two most important things in this world. Frankly, I'd rather be dead than not be free to lead the life I want to lead.

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

pretty much how black people are....welcome

Atleast they let you ride on buses now thats something I guess

[Paradoxium]

If you spend above your means, you going to have to live below your means. UK has been doing that; living above means. This is why I joke about them selling off their gold at 200 an ounce (good times) for short term welfare programs. Now they are in the red when gold is 1200 an ounce. You can go a head and continue course... but what good is it, if you don't have any money left? Look at Iceland and Greece. All these fantastic government social programs, now in the toilet. You get NOTHING, taxes, no services and the incapacity to enforce much.

So you are left with the choices: stay course and unofficially bankrupt yourself, or take the pain and clean your system out.

You are going to deal with some sucky choice. At least the latter, you have some measure of control. Something to ease into. And at least you know you doing something with a payoff. Like going a strict diet and exercise regimen for a better body and health.

The only reason why the pain is not as stark here in the United States is because they hold the world currency and can print more money. If the world abandons the greenback, I have two words for you: EPIC FAIL.

[BlackLantern]

Originally Posted by Mystirious

I'm not claiming that we're the only people to suffer discrimination. I'm for freedom and equality for all people, not just those who are LGBT.

But I would point out. In the time it's taken us just to get the right to have "Civil partnerships" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean, you could have gotten married and divorced a hundred times over.

So I hope you can understand why freedom and gay rights are the things that matter most to me when it comes to politics. And I'm rather surprised that you don't think they matter. Freedom and equality are the two most important things in this world. Frankly, I'd rather be dead than not be free to lead the life I want to lead.

it's not that I don't think they matter, I just know, considering the direction my country is going on, it's going to take a long long LONG time for any true equality among the races or sexual orientation or whatever...I can only focus on the things I need and want to do...can I still go to work, buy a car, read, spend time with my friends/family, all that everyday life stuff...I can....is some jackass still going to shout "N*****" at me from his truck on occasion, sure....Might I not get a job because I'm the wrong color..probably...but I can't let that get me down

Originally Posted by chamber-music

Atleast they let you ride on buses now thats something I guess

yea, next to the guy who just peed himself....you don't want to see the type of people that use public transpo where I live....I lost my car for about 2 weeks in September, I walked the 3.5 miles to work rather than take the bus that runs right from where I live to the bottom of the hill from my office

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by chamber-music

Hopefully Cameron can find a better balance his austerity measures under his term as prime minister than thatcher.

If Cameron winds up being anything like Thatcher I'm getting the hell out of this country. I considered packing my bags the minute the Conservatives won but I'll wait and see what he's going to do for me.

If I'm not impressed then I'll be getting out of here like a bat out of hell

[chamber-music]

I wouldn't worry too much Mystirious Britains still mostly tolerent and open minded when it comes to LGBT. Middle englanders have no more power than the Daily Mail think they do.

I don't see Tories going all Children Of Men on Brighton or anything.

[Mystirious]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

it's not that I don't think they matter, I just know, considering the direction my country is going on, it's going to take a long long LONG time for any true equality among the races or sexual orientation or whatever...I can only focus on the things I need and want to do...can I still go to work, buy a car, read, spend time with my friends/family, all that everyday life stuff...I can....is some jackass still going to shout "N*****" at me from his truck on occasion, sure....Might I not get a job because I'm the wrong color..probably...but I can't let that get me down

Well I'm glad you can still do the things you want to do. Because I can't. I want to be able to walk down the aisle with the woman I love one day. I want to be able to have a propr wedding ceremony and god help me, I even want to wear that stupid fancy frilly white wedding dress and have bridesmaids

And as far as I am concerned, until I and every single gay, bi and trans man and woman in this whole country can do that then nothing else matters.

A great many of the things I enjoy doing and want to do are tied into my sexuality and sexual lifestyle. So the only thing that really concerns me is that the government does not oppress or repress me and grants me and those like me full freedom and equality

I'm not stupid. I know there is always going to be prejudice and hatred in the world. I don't expect the whole country to link arms and sing "Kumbyah". But I do expect the government to at least grant its people the freedom and equality they deserve

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by BlackLantern

yea, next to the guy who just peed himself....you don't want to see the type of people that use public transpo where I live....I lost my car for about 2 weeks in September, I walked the 3.5 miles to work rather than take the bus that runs right from where I live to the bottom of the hill from my office

Damn that bad huh?

If you work in central London you don't have a choice you sort of have to use public transport.