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Old 05-15-2010, 10:34 PM   #251
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Batman only opened half his cape because he was using one hand to hold Rachel. They seemed to land very hard on the cab and they both survived unscathed. It was a stupid scene that would have worked much better if Batman just used his grapple gun.

Btw, its about time they give him a smaller grapple gun that can also pull the line so that he doesnt have to put it in those cogs on his belt.

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Old 05-15-2010, 10:40 PM   #252
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^If he'd used his grappling gun while carrying Rachel his arm probably would've been ripped off.

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Old 05-15-2010, 10:47 PM   #253
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Old 05-15-2010, 11:02 PM   #254
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^If he'd used his grappling gun while carrying Rachel his arm probably would've been ripped off.
The grapple gun supposedly has a device that decelerates the fall before it completely stops it. Batman always uses his g.gun to save himself from falling and he does that because the grapple gun doesnt cut the fall instantly.

Also, he wouldnt have aimed at his building (i'm assuming they were falling very close to it), but the one across the street so that they would swing towards it. That would have helped ease the strain on Batman's arm and made the scene even cooler.

So anyway they really need to give him a g.gun 2.0 like i described above, and a new cape. He needs to be able to operate it without using his hands all the time even if it means that he wont be able to maneuvre as well. Just imagine him gliding while holding a thug by the collar for interrogation. I think it wouldnt be too unrealistic.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:07 PM   #255
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Batman only opened half his cape because he was using one hand to hold Rachel. They seemed to land very hard on the cab and they both survived unscathed. It was a stupid scene that would have worked much better if Batman just used his grapple gun.
Why was it stupid exactly? You just explained that they weren't hurt because Batman had his cape half-extended.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #256
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But they seemed to fall really really fast. Another reason it was stupid is that the "saved by a car" was done in Begins. It was fine the first time but i rolled my eyes when Nolan used the same thing in TDK.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:33 PM   #257
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Whatever, didn't bother me. Just like Whiplash getting rammed by a car repeatedly and being generally ok in health didn't bother me. It's not like they survived a nuclear blast by hiding in a lead fridge.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:35 PM   #258
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^If he'd used his grappling gun while carrying Rachel his arm probably would've been ripped off.
Yet he could hold on to his gun when it latched onto a moving train and it had enough force to pull him out of a crowd of people?

I mean, this is the same universe in which we've seen Bats literally curl Liam Neeson, in full armor, with one arm. I think people would have been fine if he used his grappling gun holding Rachel.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:37 PM   #259
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I will agree that the script for IM2 is not that strong, but IM had the same script problems, too (mostly in the 2nd half). However, the performances more than make up for those. Iron Man 2 is very entertaining, to me. Is it TDK level in regard to the themes and overall purpose? No, but does everything have to be? IM2 is a fun comic film in a comic film genre that is slowly becoming not veru fun.

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Old 05-15-2010, 11:53 PM   #260
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But they seemed to fall really really fast. Another reason it was stupid is that the "saved by a car" was done in Begins. It was fine the first time but i rolled my eyes when Nolan used the same thing in TDK.
Considering all the other suspension of disbelief moments, it wasn't a problem. And I don't see how reusing the car bit would be annoying (unless you have a bias against TDK or something ), in fact I hadn't realized it was in both film until just now.

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Whatever, didn't bother me. Just like Whiplash getting rammed by a car repeatedly and being generally ok in health didn't bother me.
That actually did bother me, because there was no armor or gliding capes to factor in. Getting smashed by a car into a wall once would be enough, but they did it like three or four times. Overkill.

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Old 05-16-2010, 12:22 AM   #261
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I will agree that the script for IM2 is not that strong, but IM had the same script problems, too (mostly in the 2nd half). However, the performances more than make up for those. Iron Man 2 is very entertaining, to me. Is it TDK level in regard to the themes and overall purpose? No, but does everything have to be? IM2 is a fun comic film in a comic film genre that is slowly becoming not veru fun.
QFT. Iron Man gets carried by the acting, but I don't care. Its entertaining and its fun.

I love TDK. Its become one of my favorite films of all time. Joker is one of the greatest film villains of all time. But as much as I love it, I don't want every other comic book film to be like TDK. I don't want a serious tone for every superhero film.

That's why I'm glad Iron Man came out when it did. It was the perfect compliment to The Dark Knight with The Incredible Hulk being a bit of a both. Believe it or not, Iron Man has as huge an effect on the industry along with TDK. It gave both companies more confidence in its B-list heroes, and it shows that a tone of a superhero film can go multiple ways.

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Old 05-16-2010, 12:33 AM   #262
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I will agree that the script for IM2 is not that strong, but IM had the same script problems, too (mostly in the 2nd half). However, the performances more than make up for those. Iron Man 2 is very entertaining, to me. Is it TDK level in regard to the themes and overall purpose? No, but does everything have to be? IM2 is a fun comic film in a comic film genre that is slowly becoming not veru fun.
Also QFT. Said it better than I could.

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Old 05-16-2010, 03:15 AM   #263
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I love the first Batman film, and it will go down as one of the all time greats. Batman Returns is sloppy, and Tim Burton run amok. There is nothing about Batman in that movie, nor the Penguin, nor Catwoman really.

I remember an interview with Tim Burton at the time and he said Tim Burton was a "weak character". This from someone who never reads comic books. So he turns Penguin into slime spitting mutant.

Catwoman was not a meager secretary who gets pushed out a window and bitten by radio active cats, she's a cat burgler. I'll admit that Pfeiffer's performance was the strongest in the film, but the film is a laughable joke that is more Ronald Dahl than it is Bob Kane.

I guess if you like it, then OK, but it discredits the point your trying to make with Iron Man. I actually have a soft spot for the Fantastic Four movies, but I wouldn't put them on any "best of" list.
Huh. I don't see how my enjoying Batman Returns discredits what I said of IM2. IM2 is a muddled, forgettable film. I think Batman REturns is anything, but. Your hangups seem entirely based on it being an inacurrate adaptation of the comics. That is not a dealbreaker to me. I thought Burton brought his A-game and his Penguin, Batman and Catwoman were hopelessly tragic and sympathetic. The aesthetics of the film (especially the music) was amazing. I was saddened by the perfectly realized ending. Walken is great. A very tight movie, you just don't like the adaptation. Different problems there, I must say.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:01 AM   #264
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Huh. I don't see how my enjoying Batman Returns discredits what I said of IM2. IM2 is a muddled, forgettable film. I think Batman REturns is anything, but. Your hangups seem entirely based on it being an inacurrate adaptation of the comics. That is not a dealbreaker to me. I thought Burton brought his A-game and his Penguin, Batman and Catwoman were hopelessly tragic and sympathetic. The aesthetics of the film (especially the music) was amazing. I was saddened by the perfectly realized ending. Walken is great. A very tight movie, you just don't like the adaptation. Different problems there, I must say.
I again have to say I agree with you on Batman Returns. The duality themes the film had were extremely well done, though they were not accurate to the comic. You had Bruce struggling with his identity as Wayne vs Batman, the Penguin struggling with his identity as the ring leader of the Circus of Crime vs his new found fame as an aspiring politician, and Selena's longing to be a stronger women as opposed to the weak willed and frail person she was. The film has a very goofy plot (Penguins shooting rockets into Gotham?) but the character arcs and performances overtake that silliness. It's very underrated, and I love the Burton Batman films.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:05 AM   #265
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QFT. Iron Man gets carried by the acting, but I don't care. Its entertaining and its fun.

I love TDK. Its become one of my favorite films of all time. Joker is one of the greatest film villains of all time. But as much as I love it, I don't want every other comic book film to be like TDK. I don't want a serious tone for every superhero film.

That's why I'm glad Iron Man came out when it did. It was the perfect compliment to The Dark Knight with The Incredible Hulk being a bit of a both. Believe it or not, Iron Man has as huge an effect on the industry along with TDK. It gave both companies more confidence in its B-list heroes, and it shows that a tone of a superhero film can go multiple ways.
This is the thing I hate about TDK. Great film, and absolutely love it. However, too many comic fans use it as the Bible of comic filmmaking, and it shouldn't be. The overtly serious nature worked in the Nolan world, but that doesn't mean it either works for everyone or that comic films need to take out the fun aspects of being a superhero. Each superhero is different, and different approaches and styles are called for in each case. Would I want to see a Cap or Thor film made like IM? No. Because they are different. The mistake everyone makes with TDK is that they use its greatness and want everything to be like it, and that is contradictory to a lot of comic characters. Try TDK-ing the Flash for a film...I guarantee it would suck.

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Also QFT. Said it better than I could.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:14 AM   #266
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I don't think people want all superhero films to be as serious in tone as TDK (I've certainly not seen anyone suggest as much), but I think people want the makers of these films to take it as seriously as Nolan an Warner Brothers took TDK. There is a difference.

If Favreau needed more time to fashion a quality script for IM2, and the end product suggests he did, the studio should have given that to him. But Marvel took making a quick buck more seriously than making the best movie they could make, which is a false economy anyway.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:27 AM   #267
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Favs and RDJ wrote a good portion of IM on the set, and I am sure they did the same with IM2. The films don't feel tightly scripted, because they're not. Favs and RDJ essentially made the movie on the set and used the script more as "guidelines" and an outline of how scenes crop up. Not what happens in them.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:31 AM   #268
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That's what I heard, and if that's the case they got lucky with the first but I don't think it worked the second time. THey needed a well paced story and a genuine sense of threat to Stark. Quite simply, it needed a better script, a better sense of direction. But I'm not saying anything new or revelatory here.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:47 AM   #269
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Considering all the other suspension of disbelief moments, it wasn't a problem. And I don't see how reusing the car bit would be annoying (unless you have a bias against TDK or something ), in fact I hadn't realized it was in both film until just now.
It was in both scenes and its the tired cliche that cars can also be used as pillows to stop one from falling to his death.
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That actually did bother me, because there was no armor or gliding capes to factor in. Getting smashed by a car into a wall once would be enough, but they did it like three or four times. Overkill.
I think he had an exoskeleton bellow the waist and that saved him. It wasnt apparent because he was wearing pants but i've seen it in concept art and on the Hot Toys Whiplash whose pants are torn.
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Huh. I don't see how my enjoying Batman Returns discredits what I said of IM2. IM2 is a muddled, forgettable film. I think Batman REturns is anything, but. Your hangups seem entirely based on it being an inacurrate adaptation of the comics. That is not a dealbreaker to me. I thought Burton brought his A-game and his Penguin, Batman and Catwoman were hopelessly tragic and sympathetic. The aesthetics of the film (especially the music) was amazing. I was saddened by the perfectly realized ending. Walken is great. A very tight movie, you just don't like the adaptation. Different problems there, I must say.
That movie was bad and you should feel bad.

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Old 05-16-2010, 10:55 AM   #270
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That actually did bother me, because there was no armor or gliding capes to factor in. Getting smashed by a car into a wall once would be enough, but they did it like three or four times. Overkill.
See to me it didn't and I'll tell you why. Whiplash was wearing a full body powered exo-skeleton that went all the way down to his ankles. But you couldn't see most of it below the waist due to him wearing pants over it. It was this exo-skeleton which took the brunt of the car's impact. Now Ivan was still hurt by it. You could see he had blood all in his mouth and everything after this happened, but the skeleton was enough to keep him from being crushed. It also amplified his strength a bit, but not enough to move the car(though I could see him trying and slightly moving it with the skeleton's help). I had much more of a problem with the walking away from the explosions part.

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Old 05-16-2010, 12:11 PM   #271
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See to me it didn't and I'll tell you why. Whiplash was wearing a full body powered exo-skeleton that went all the way down to his ankles. But you couldn't see most of it below the waist due to him wearing pants over it. It was this exo-skeleton which took the brunt of the car's impact. Now Ivan was still hurt by it. You could see he had blood all in his mouth and everything after this happened, but the skeleton was enough to keep him from being crushed. It also amplified his strength a bit, but not enough to move the car(though I could see him trying and slightly moving it with the skeleton's help). I had much more of a problem with the walking away from the explosions part.
The problem is that the exoskeleton went up to his waist and then it seemed to end there. There was nothing to imply that it went down to his feet.

Also, its kind of sad that we never got to see any blood in two dark batman movies but we have in the IM and Spiderman ones who are supposedly more light hearted.


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Old 05-16-2010, 12:14 PM   #272
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When they drag him away, you can see some of it through the holes in his pants.

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Old 05-16-2010, 02:37 PM   #273
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The grapple gun supposedly has a device that decelerates the fall before it completely stops it. Batman always uses his g.gun to save himself from falling and he does that because the grapple gun doesnt cut the fall instantly.
In the comics or the Nolan movies?

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Also, he wouldnt have aimed at his building (i'm assuming they were falling very close to it), but the one across the street so that they would swing towards it. That would have helped ease the strain on Batman's arm and made the scene even cooler.
I don't know that swinging into a building at top speed and not being killed would be any more believable than falling into a car at top speed and not being killed.

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Yet he could hold on to his gun when it latched onto a moving train and it had enough force to pull him out of a crowd of people?
It's been a while since I've seen BB. Was the train moving at top speed when he latched onto it?

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I mean, this is the same universe in which we've seen Bats literally curl Liam Neeson, in full armor, with one arm. I think people would have been fine if he used his grappling gun holding Rachel.
People seemed to be mostly fine with him partially extending his parachute and saving Rachel.

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Old 05-16-2010, 03:41 PM   #274
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Iron Man 2 was fun and I'll surely buy the DVD and I would rank it in no particular order alongside Superman 2, X2, Batman Returns, The Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2.

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Old 05-16-2010, 03:45 PM   #275
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I don't rate X2 as high as you do, but I completely agree with you on SM3 and Batman Returns being underrated! SM3 is a movie I feel is victimized due to SM2's quality in large part. SM3 is very crowded, muddled, etc. Just like you said. I agree on all those flaws, but when I watch it...I am entertained! I like watching it. Same goes for Batman Returns. Flawed movie, but very entertaining, and it has some great performances. Pfeifer is great, DeVito is great, Keaton is great, Walken is great, etc. The plot is a bit messy, but as I watch it, I care less about it. Both that and SM3 are very entertaining and underrated films.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way

Oh, and Superman II I find VERY overrated, Especially the Lester Cut. That film has a ton of plot holes and needless additions that make it a frustrating movie for me to watch. Zod is fantastic, but so many of the inconsistancies and corny subjokes are ANNOYING! Especially the other council members being in the crystals, when clearly in S:TM making those crystals was a big reason the council was going to arrest him. SM2 told a similar story much better.
I actually think BR is pretty well made. Narratively it is very loose, but so are all Burton movies. In its own terms it works charmingly. I agree on SM3. I like Superman II, but it is a movie that I don't need to watch a lot, because it is very dry for a lot of the reasons you noted.

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