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Old 05-23-2016, 01:05 PM   #1
Wack Panther
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Default Director's original intent....

I keep hearing things throughout forums on how Marvel's movies sometimes get neuterd in order to keep things uniform for future films. Examples of these have been Iron Man 2, Thor TDW and Ant Man. I always wondered what these cuts entail. Mickey Rouke was upset that his "meaty" scenes were exercised from the Iron Man sequel. I also know that there are sometimes scenes that get omitted that are somewhat far in production(like the Thor vs Vision fight in AoU) or concept art for things that never get shot (The mine removal scene from the beginning of Iron Man 3 shown in the art book).

Anyway, my point to this thread is: Does anyone have any knowledge regarding any ideas/concepts/scenes that almost were? And do you think they would have made for a better film if left in?

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Old 05-23-2016, 02:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

I'd be really interested in seeing Ivan Vanko scenes that were cut from IM2. He was one of my favorite characters and had a lot of potential. Did wonders with the scenes he was given to work with.

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Old 05-23-2016, 02:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Killian should have been Killia (a woman). It's more original and plays up the whole perception vs reality theme a lot better.

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Old 05-23-2016, 02:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Tough to say since a lot of this are cut or chanced well before production. And if there's a director change you'll probably never get anything because nobody wants to appear bad mouthing the other. You'll never know if you want to work with them again. And movies are a collaborative efforts, directors may lead the film but ideas come from everyone involved and the people bank rolling it have final say.

I do remember Hawkeye was suppose to have a fight scene with Cap in Winter Soldier. It would take place right after Cap taking down the quinjet and before the vending machine scene. Hawkeye would reveal their fights is a ruse just so he can tell Cap there's a tracker in his stealth suit. It was cut due to Jeremy Renner not being available.

Edward Norton really pushed to have Doc Sampson to get super powers in TIH.

Wasp was planned for Avengers when they weren't sure if Scarlett was returning and really wanted there to be a female on the team.

I believe there were a few alien races James Gunn was prevented from showing due to licensing.

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Old 05-23-2016, 05:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

I understood that Alan Taylor was frustrated that Thor the Dark World was filmed the way he wanted it, but heavily edited the powers that be.

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"As to why he was not returning, Taylor said, "The Marvel experience was particularly wrenching because I was sort of given absolute freedom while we were shooting, and then in [post-production] it turned into a different movie. So, that is something I hope never to repeat and don't wish upon anybody else."
That leaves me wondering if Malekith was given more screentime?

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Old 05-23-2016, 11:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wack Panther View Post
That leaves me wondering if Malekith was given more screentime?
In the earliest interviews with Christopher Eccleston he stressed how glad he was that his character had an actual good backstory and motivation. Then when the film came closer to release he seemed less happy. I'm very afraid they cut a lot of his scenes after they had already been filmed in favour of more Loki and Jane



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Old 05-24-2016, 05:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

I'm surprised that i read that Iron Man 3 villain was supposed to be Maya Hensen...

If that's true, i believe it will be more interesting...

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirStrangefolk View Post
In the earliest interviews with Christopher Eccleston he stressed how glad he was that his character had an actual good backstory and motivation. Then when the film came closer to release he seemed less happy. I'm very afraid they cut a lot of his scenes after they had already been filmed in favour of more Loki and Jane

I didn't watch the video again so I might be redundant now, but I remember that they shot things with Malekith's family being killed and other scenes relating to that, so the parallel between Malekith and Odin's behavior was clearer than it is in the released movie.

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirStrangefolk View Post
In the earliest interviews with Christopher Eccleston he stressed how glad he was that his character had an actual good backstory and motivation. Then when the film came closer to release he seemed less happy. I'm very afraid they cut a lot of his scenes after they had already been filmed in favour of more Loki and Jane

I'm a big fan of TDW but this is my one real problem with the film. I remember these interviews with Eccleston and will never understand what happened with Malekith and why most of his scenes never made it into the final cut. It would've made this film so much better to have Malekith flushed out more fully and probably would have quelled 90% of people's complaints about it.

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
I'd be really interested in seeing Ivan Vanko scenes that were cut from IM2. He was one of my favorite characters and had a lot of potential. Did wonders with the scenes he was given to work with.
I remember reading somewhere he was supposed to have had a generational feud with Stark. A lot of that stuff was cut out to make way for Black Widow, Nick Fury and even Hawkeye. Eventually Hawkeye was cut out but there still wasn't enough room to make Vanko a compelling character again.

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Old 05-24-2016, 09:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
Killian should have been Killia (a woman). It's more original and plays up the whole perception vs reality theme a lot better.
LOL, I don't even know how to respond to this. Killian is/was the surname. Aldrich was the first name. Taking off the "n" at the end and having the name Aldrich Killia doesn't turn the character into a female.

Also, Aldrich Killian was already a character in the comics. A very minor one, but a character non the less. Gender bending him is not necessary.

If they wanted a women to be the main villain in part three they should've beefed up Maya Henson's role. Or just had Madame Masque be the one that wanted control of the White House and terrorism (I would've preferred this 100% with Ghost and the the the Extremis soldiers being her "muscle").

No need for gender bending characters.

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Old 05-24-2016, 02:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirStrangefolk View Post
In the earliest interviews with Christopher Eccleston he stressed how glad he was that his character had an actual good backstory and motivation. Then when the film came closer to release he seemed less happy. I'm very afraid they cut a lot of his scenes after they had already been filmed in favour of more Loki and Jane

WOW! Thanks for finding that. It now makes me wish we'd get director's cuts for some of these films. TDW is very standard fare because of it's lack of characterization. Malekith SHOULD have been on par with Loki (in terms of development) in order to be a suitable follow-up villain.

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Old 05-24-2016, 02:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

This gives us some insight: http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia...Deleted_Scenes

Of particular interest from Age of Ultron:

Quote:
Von Strucker walks into his jail cell and is killed by an off screen Ultron.
Quote:
James Rhodes contacted Black Widow and Stark about Ultron hacking into nuclear weapons programs around the world. He is being deployed to the Middle East to help keep the peace. Stark sends him a patch to keep Ultron from hacking into the War Machine Armor. Thor attempts to contact Heimdall but gets no response.
Quote:
A bustling African village is torn apart by Hulk while he’s on his Wanda Maximoff-fueled rampage. A little girl is trying to recover her ball and stumbles across him.
THIS I would LOVE to see:
Quote:
A scene was shot of Quicksilver surviving his wounds as well as footage of him in a new costume at the New Avengers Facility, in case Disney overruled Joss Whedon's decision to kill him off.[1]

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Old 05-24-2016, 05:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wack Panther View Post
THIS I would LOVE to see:
I really wished they had that scene on the blu ray.

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Old 05-24-2016, 05:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Malekith got the short end in favor of more Loki screentime, pretty sure.

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Old 05-24-2016, 10:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

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Malekith got the short end in favor of more Loki screentime, pretty sure.
Yeah, at the start of development Loki was just a cameo, but his role grew more and more. I'm glad about that, I'd much rather see characters play off Loki than watch Malekith.

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Old 05-25-2016, 12:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

I like that we got more Loki, but I'm sad we got so little of Malekith. They could've easily cut from the boring characters of Jane, her intern Darcy, her intern's intern and maybe even Selvig. Did we really need that scene of them dropping stuff in the portal thingy and losing the car keys for example?

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Old 05-25-2016, 01:58 AM   #18
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

For Civil War, there was originally a fight between Cap and Black Widow that was cut mostly due to time.

http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/t...out-why-750806

Quote:
When Fandango spoke to Civil War writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, they revealed a major fight they wrote that never made it into the final movie.

"There was a good fight between Captain America and Black Widow that we lost mainly due to time," Christopher Markus explains.

Another reason the fight never happened was because, narratively, they were already addressing the tensions between Cap and Black Widow -- not to mention the similar dynamic between Black Widow and Hawkeye, who do fight in the film and also have a strong personal connection to one another. "[Cap and Black Widow] clearly have a deep relationship even though they're clearly on opposite sides, and you never know how many times you need to hit that over the course of the movie," Stephen McFeely adds. "I think it works without this fight, but we certainly didn't know if it would."

As to who won the fight between Cap and Black Widow, the guys both laugh.

"I guess Cap did," Mcfeely says. "Let's just say he got away in the moment, how about that?"
I wonder if this scene was a casualty of having to include Spiderman late in production? If so, that's really too bad - I know it's already established that Steve/Nat believe differently about the Accords, but their friendship ran deeper than Steve/Tony's and seeing the two of them coming to blows would've added plenty of gravity to the conflict.


The Russos apparently don't cut a lot of scenes, but I like to think they cut some Bucky/Steve and Sharon/Steve for time. Those relationships could've been given more attention.

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Old 05-26-2016, 12:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by zephyrinthesky View Post
For Civil War, there was originally a fight between Cap and Black Widow that was cut mostly due to time.

http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/t...out-why-750806



I wonder if this scene was a casualty of having to include Spiderman late in production? If so, that's really too bad - I know it's already established that Steve/Nat believe differently about the Accords, but their friendship ran deeper than Steve/Tony's and seeing the two of them coming to blows would've added plenty of gravity to the conflict.


The Russos apparently don't cut a lot of scenes, but I like to think they cut some Bucky/Steve and Sharon/Steve for time. Those relationships could've been given more attention.
Spider-man was always planned to be there. I think the emotional side of the fight probably just seemed redundant(I think they pointed out it was pretty just like her fight with Hawkeye) plus ruined the flow of the over all scene.

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Old 05-28-2016, 02:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Honestly, I'm not too enamored with the original idea for Iron Man 3 either. Unless they were going to use Madame Masque. That would've been awesome.

Regarding Iron Man 2, the original ending had Vanko going to the Expo with just his whip and he holds Pepper Captive. So it's a bit of a shorter confrontation between Iron Man and Vanko. More of a standoff type of thing.

Also, one thing Rourke did mention at the press conference was how he would improvise a little during his scenes with Rockwell. Like he tried the wine and said, "the wine is ****!" And then Rockwell reacted and threw his own glass of wine away to agree with Vanko.

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Old 05-28-2016, 11:34 AM   #21
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wack Panther View Post
Quote:
A scene was shot of Quicksilver surviving his wounds as well as footage of him in a new costume at the New Avengers Facility, in case Disney overruled Joss Whedon's decision to kill him off.[1]

THIS I would LOVE to see:
Heck yeah. If they *had* to kill someone off, I'd rather it had been Hawkeye or Stark (since it's close to the end of RDJrs. contract, and it would have been a huge frikkin' deal). Killing off a character to artificially create tension that you failed to create through good writing is a cheap tactic, and bait-and-switch killing off some secondary character that just showed up is kind of weak.

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Old 05-28-2016, 12:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

Peyton Reed shot a Hank Pym eighties set Bond style prologue that featured him on a mission in Panama stealing microfilm from a war lord played by Jordi Molla. The only images of the prologue are seen in the trailers and in the scene in which Cross reveals he knows Pym was Ant-Man.

Edgar Wright's Ant-Man

David Dastmalchian said Scott Lang's crew was a lot bigger. I think it had 7 or 9 members. Kevin Weisman and Jordan Peele who were attached to the movie were possibly crew members.

Had an original villain dubbed Nano Warrior

Hope had a smaller role and there was no mention of Janet. No Quantum Realm/microverse.

Hank Pym may of died in the films third act instead of being just injured.

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Old 05-28-2016, 01:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

I think that would've given the film a better opening than what we ended up with.

I think my problem with the opening of Ant-Man was that it lacked a big smash or hook. It was such a flat opening. He walks into a building and slams a guy's head on a desk, and Howard Stark is all just, "yeah leave him alone."

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Old 05-29-2016, 12:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

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I think that would've given the film a better opening than what we ended up with.

I think my problem with the opening of Ant-Man was that it lacked a big smash or hook. It was such a flat opening. He walks into a building and slams a guy's head on a desk, and Howard Stark is all just, "yeah leave him alone."
I think it works better, saves the first moment of shrinking for later so the audience experiences it with Lang

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Old 05-29-2016, 12:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: Director's original intent....

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I think it works better, saves the first moment of shrinking for later so the audience experiences it with Lang
The opening wouldn't have to go as immersive and show it in full. Just give us some hints of what it can do. Like we see guys getting flipped around but we don't actually see how he's doing it.

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