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Old 05-29-2010, 04:45 AM   #1
lukedoggwalker
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Default Where's Angel and Iceman?

o rite, Icemans the lil emo kid who "came out" to his family from the 2nd movie and Angel was a cutter who looks like he plays WoW all day and doesnt do anything but catches some guy in the 3rd movie .. so wut are we going to be stuck with 3 mutants we've already seen before who have the most boring powers ever, how exciting.

F U Fox.. i cant believe xmen fans still support these movies being made, this series deserves a reboot more than any other.. i cannot be more unenthused about all these origin movies.

Discuss.

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Old 05-29-2010, 08:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

How insightful.

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Old 05-29-2010, 12:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Typical..

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Old 05-29-2010, 12:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Ah, reminds me of the good ole days in the X-forums.

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Old 05-29-2010, 01:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

What good ole days?

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Old 05-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukedoggwalker View Post
o rite, Icemans the lil emo kid who "came out" to his family from the 2nd movie and Angel was a cutter who looks like he plays WoW all day and doesnt do anything but catches some guy in the 3rd movie .. so wut are we going to be stuck with 3 mutants we've already seen before who have the most boring powers ever, how exciting.

F U Fox.. i cant believe xmen fans still support these movies being made, this series deserves a reboot more than any other.. i cannot be more unenthused about all these origin movies.

Discuss.
You know, just because you can start threads, doesn't mean you should.

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Old 05-29-2010, 10:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

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You know, just because you can start threads, doesn't mean you should.
and this is why they shouldn't be allowed to start threads. Plus it'll make your job alot easier.

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Old 05-29-2010, 10:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Lord.

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Old 05-29-2010, 10:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

I wonder if Lukeydoggywalky even watched the movies...since he obviously knows nothing of what the actor who portrayed Angel looks like or much else about the movie since he doesn't understand the importance of who he catches.

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Old 05-30-2010, 04:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

the xmen films are the most bland series of films ever made, and that's sad to say considering how rich and imaginative the comic books were.. they turned a racially diverse team of superheroes and made em into a bunch of pretty clean cut americans. absolutely zero thought or creativity was put into the trilogy or the wolverine movie and i hate to see them take a perfect opportunity and story to refresh everything to jus add on another backstory to an already crappy series, it sux..

they changed way too much that it's not even xmen anymore, the filmmakers, bryan singer included, had no idea wat they were doing, and now it's just all about the money, and u all know it's true..

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Old 05-30-2010, 04:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

We get it. The point is, you're not telling us anything we haven't already heard or don't already know.

Also, you can't complain about the X-Men being a bunch of pretty, clean cut Americans, while advocating the likes of Angel and Iceman, not to mention the rest of the Original Five, who are the epitome of pretty, clean cut Americans.

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Old 05-30-2010, 11:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

It's also worth pointing out that most of the main X-Men cast isn't American.

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Old 05-31-2010, 07:00 AM   #13
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

I think if they are going to be exploring the early years, xavier and magneto will probably both be the team leaders. I think the team should consist of young scott, young jean, young beast, young quicksilver, and young scarlet witch. where you can clearly see where the two factions will break and they could even possibly show magneto trying to recruit hank and he chooses to stay with xavier, the great thing is they really don't have to cover too many recruitments beast's. scarlet witch could be explained by magneto

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Old 05-31-2010, 01:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Angel and Iceman can still appear in the first class movies, involves a little bit of maths and a little of mis-direction but you can have them in it...

Firstly the x-men, the original 5 x-men were never the same age to begin with Beast was always the eldest, followed by Jean and Scott who were a few years younger, then Angel, finally the youngest Iceman who had to be about 10 years different from Beast...

Knowing that in mind, lets say if in the comics Iceman was 14/15 - Angel would of been 17, Cyclops 19, Jean 21, and Beast 23/24 - So the first thing we can take out of this is the first class of x-men was not characters of the same age.

Secondly - using my calculations and putting them into actions the x-men in the movie universe have totally unrealist years ages... see if we were to say how old would each of those five characters would of been if we saw them today, they would be (and this is information taken from a mix of info we got from the movies and info we got from the actors/actresses age)

Iceman - 31, Angel - 30, Cyclops - 37 , Jean -45 , Beast - 55

So as you can see the ages are a little messed up. Jean is way WAY older than Cyclops. So we cant really go by those ages. Or can we?

Say we set the movie in 1992? odd year i know but for sentlemental reasons its the year the x-men animated series started.

So in 1992 if this is the year we watch X-Men First Class from...
there ages would of been.

Iceman - 13, Angel -12, Cyclops -19, Jean - 27 and Beast - 37

Thats not actually that bad, we could work on this...

In the movies Angel's age was never given only that you know that a few years ago angels wings started to appear which we work out as being his teens and if we take Ben Fosters real age it sort of worked out the same that his character was 9 when it started to happen. Which is wrong because the mutant x-gene is supposed to hit when puberty starts so you cant really classify how old Angel was because the dates dont match up... for which we call - Continutiy error... But that maybe a good thing because that means we can then make Angel seem older than iceman by 2, 3 years..

So reveiw Iceman 13, lets say Angel 16. Cyclops is 19,

so we come to Jean, who is 27 by that year. now i think we could shave off 3/2 years off her age making her 25, seems more likely that she was at that school and the gap between her and cyclops doesnt seem so big...

Beast is the biggest problem, as he techiquelly would be 37, so what i figure with him is that we simply explain he knew xavier before xavier started the school, and Xavier sort of inspired beast to do better which lead to xavier himself thinking maybe i should start a school. and Beast became an associate being to old to be at the school as a student but maybe as one of his first teachers and a member of the x-men...

So with that age thing kind of sorted the second question really is how do we explain a younger iceman and angel at the school...

Well its never been fully explained how long Iceman has been at the school and judging the first movie he has been there a while so that wouldnt be too impossible.

and as for Angel, - his many many lines to the x-men was "I heard this was a safe place for mutants" to which Beast said "Not anymore" or i forget who said that...

But my point being is, Angel could of potentially been at the school a long time ago, when he was younger but left to work with his father because like stryker, worthington crn hoped his son would be cured, stryker took other methods where as angels father worked on an actual cure.

So you could explain that Angel had a short role within the first x-men team.

Heres my idea,

we have the original 5, and they go on there first mission which becomes highly dangerous and xavier realises this, after Angel nearly looses his life, he leaves to go back to his father. Xavier then prevents a young iceman from the team until he is old enough to join his fellow team mates out on the field again.

instead we add Storm and Banshee who are around Cyclops age and become two new members, and our story is told through there eyes in the first year at school

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Old 05-31-2010, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Sorry, but...They ruined their chances as soon as they established in X3 that Angel had never been to the mansion before..

They would have to recreate the origin entirely or use a sort of alternate timeline where First Class isn't necessarily a direct prequel to the original series. Like how The Incredible Hulk wasn't a direct sequel to Hulk.

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Old 05-31-2010, 03:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Iceman was a student in X-Men 1 in Rogue's class, so there is no way he could have been a student alongside cyclops. Rogue's age in X1 is "about seventeen" (Storm says this when giving a description of her at the train station) so Iceman can't be that much older than Rogue.(Also on a side note, 8 months pass between Rogue's discovery of her powers and her being at the mansion. It's in a deleted scene.)

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Old 05-31-2010, 03:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

You are totally missing the point.

1. non of the characters are initially the same age so they wouldnt be in the same year if you look at it from the conventional school point of view, but this isnt a school for knowledge, it is but mostly for mutant powers, there is no age range only years...

so Iceman, could of been at that school being taught alongside a slightly older angel, really old beast. But the difference is that what he is studying foor.

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Old 05-31-2010, 04:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVelvetOnion View Post
So reveiw Iceman 13, lets say Angel 16. Cyclops is 19,
Lets do this theoretically. You say Cyclops is nineteen in first class. First class is set after Wolverine. It's been fifteen years between Wolverine and X-Men 1. ("It's been fifteen years, hasn't it. moving from place to place with no memory of who or what you are" Xavier to Wolverine) So say Cyclops was nineteen in Wolverine, add the fifteen years, that would make cyclops 34 years old in X-Men 1. If Iceman was 13 at the time Cyclops was 19, in X-Men 1, Iceman would have been 28. So you're telling me that a 28 year old is going to be studying alongside seventeen year olds. I doubt it. Just accept the fact that Angel and Iceman aren't going to be in First Class.

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Old 05-31-2010, 05:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Actually...

In 2000 they would of been

Iceman - 21
Rogue - 18
Pyro - 23
Jubilee - 14 (However this was based on actress who played her in x2-3)
Shadowcat - 13 (Again based on Ellen Page's version of the character)
Colossus - 19
Artie - 11
Siryen - 12
Angel - 20
Leech - 7

Bear this in mind, each x-men movie in the trilogy was done with a space of 3 years between them, so although Leech didnt appear until x3, in x3 he was aged 13 which i think i saw on the cut clip or something i cant remember. But if you deduct 6 years you have the period of when x1 occured. so the character of Leech would of been 7 during the first movie.

Alot of people has argued that the x-men movies took place right after each other however Bryan Singer stated that in one of the many interviews that he did, the period between x1 to x2 was around 3 years. The reason for this is because he wanted the x-men to be more established and that wolverine had been away for sometime and had returned because he needed the professor help again. Now between x2 to x3 was difficult to figure out however not impossible. I think i managed to work out that the president that was in x3 was obviously different from the president that was in x2, so lets say the x2 president resigned at the end of x-men 2, i dont know spooked by charles xavier and the new president took over. the newer president put into action the Leech-Cure thing which is something he couldnt of done within his first few years of office. Although mutants would be a big key issue he would be facing. Also cut to the fact that you had Beast working with him. So about 3 years would make sense... but to throw in another fact was that the characters seemed to had followed the age of there actors/actresses. The reason for this was Jean Grey, when xavier went to visit her, it was 30 years later, the year for any eagle eyed viewer would of seen that it was 1977, and we have a 12 year old Jean Grey, 12 years old i think was the age of the actor who played the younger jean grey. But if your putting reason to this, the characters in x-men tend to get there mutant ability during puberty which at 12 would seem like a logical age for her character to be. But the brilliant think about a 12 year old jean 30 years ago means Famke Janssen was playing a 42 year old Jean Grey - Famke Janssen's age today is 25 go back 4 years ago to when x-men came out she would of been 41/42 - So from that character alone, we can established that.

X-Men 1 was sent in 2000 and not the far distant future.

X-Men 2 had to be set in 2003 because it was 3 years later the film was made, plus singer wanted there to be a couple of years gap between the story.

X-Men 3 was set in 2006 - because simply doing the math, 42 year old jean grey go back 30 years would of been 12 and played by a 12 year old actor meaning that Jean had to be aged 42 in x3 making the year 2006.

I've put alot of thought, clues and gathered information into my chart.

Now lets go back to x-men first class

Im saying it will be set in 1992

Iceman would be 13 by x-men the movie, set 7 years away he would of been 21, by the time of x-men 3, he would of been 27, and if you looked at how his character was being developled in x-men 3, that generation of characters was getting ready to leave there role as students and become tutors/x-men

It makes sense.

Cyclops by x3 was yes 33, there is a big age gap between the two actors who played jean and cyclops

---------------

Now heres something to think about

If x-men 4 followed suit and we didnt have the wolverine movie, we would of had x-men 4 in 2009 taking place in the year 2009.

Storm - would of then been 43 - she would of probably be getting to old to lead an x-men team.
Wolverine - you cant really count becaue he doesnt age, actually if you go by x-men origins wolverine, wolverines age at that point would of been 177 years old.
Iceman - 30
Rogue - 27
Gambit - 38 (based on Gambit from wolverine movie)
Beast - 54
Professor X - 69
Jubilee - 23

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Old 05-31-2010, 06:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Wouldn't mind if they just discarded previous continuity altogether.

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Old 05-31-2010, 06:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

TheVelvetOnion, there was not a span of 6 years from X1-X3. If anything, the entire 3 movies span maybe 1 year tops.

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Old 05-31-2010, 09:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

When X3 was being made, someone said how long of a time X3 was from X2 and I think they said 6 weeks. I think X2 was a few months after X1. So yeah, I think the whole trilogy spanned around a year.

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Old 05-31-2010, 09:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

See, that's even being generous!

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Old 05-31-2010, 09:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

Wow. Boring powers?

Jean - Telekinesis, telepathic.
Cyclops - Shoots lasers from his ****ing eyes.
Storm - Controls ALL weather.

Beast is the only rather boring power set. Angel's essentially in his earliest form nothing but a pretty rich guy who flies. Iceman, I have no arguement for. He's got an interesting power.

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Old 06-01-2010, 08:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Where's Angel and Iceman?

TheVelvetOnion, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. The actress to played Kitty in X1 was clearly around Rogue's age and not a thirteen year old,whilst the actress in X2 was clearly younger, therefore the age of the actor/actress doesn't necessarily have a bearing on the age of the character. I didn't realise Famke Janssen was that much older than James Marsden until I saw it on the internet, she never looked older. I always assumed the characters were around the same age. Also, I don't think the 20 years ago is from when the film was made, I think it is 20 years ago from the not too distant future, which doesn't give the time frame. The clothes and cars and decoration were chosen to give the sense that the scene was taking place in the past rather than saying this scene takes place in the year whatever, IMO.

There is no way there were three years between X1 and X2. Three reasons spring to mind.
1. Wolverine was going to Alkali Lake and found nothing. It wouldn't take him three years to head to Canada, find nothing and come back to tell Xavier that he found nothing.
2. Iceman wouldn't hang around Rogue for three years if he couldn't touch her at all. I got the impression in X2 that their relationship was a fairly recent development and they were still working out solutions to their touch problem.
3. Cyclops noticed something different about Jean since Liberty Island. A few weeks would make sense for him to defintiely notice a change. If it took him three years to notice and mention it then he is either an extremely crappy lover or completely unobservant.

I believe X2 was set a couple of weeks, if not a couple of months, after X1 tops.

X3 was probably set at least a couple of months after X2 because of the change of president and the fact that you wouldn't call someone a changed man just because they were still grieving for their dead loved one after a couple of weeks.

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