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Old 08-14-2011, 12:47 PM   #526
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Where's my Fassbender toy gosh darnit.

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Old 08-19-2011, 03:49 AM   #527
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Where's my Fassbender toy gosh darnit.
Yes. Where are our First Class toys? I still have my Wolverine and motor cycle from X1.

And we're being told we can't get a toy blackbird with beast as a pilot? Come on!

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Old 08-19-2011, 03:56 AM   #528
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It was on a rushed production so Fox couldn't hire a toy manufacture for the job on time.

The most I'd expect at this point is a couple of figurines from Hot Toys.

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Old 09-13-2011, 10:30 AM   #529
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One thing that I was thinking about in regards to Magneto's character arc...

with FC, a lot of fans here have been applauding Fassbender's portrayal along the lines of him being a regular superhero, him being the 'Nazi hunter'...but as we all know, he follows the path of being a 'Nazi' himself, thinking that his race was the superior all along.
I mean, he is a good looking guy, so I guess a lot of folk will find it easy to ignore this character development, and just go along applauding him in the same way, ignoring factors they don't want to confront, whereas with Ian McKellen, it was easier to dislike him in the movies, him not being so good looking.
Those good lookers eh? haha, so innocent looking, they can just about get away with anything, or, y'know, maybe not.

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Old 09-13-2011, 11:22 AM   #530
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One thing that I was thinking about in regards to Magneto's character arc...

with FC, a lot of fans here have been applauding Fassbender's portrayal along the lines of him being a regular superhero, him being the 'Nazi hunter'...but as we all know, he follows the path of being a 'Nazi' himself, thinking that his race was the superior all along.
I mean, he is a good looking guy, so I guess a lot of folk will find it easy to ignore this character development, and just go along applauding him in the same way, ignoring factors they don't want to confront, whereas with Ian McKellen, it was easier to dislike him in the movies, him not being so good looking.
Those good lookers eh? haha, so innocent looking, they can just about get away with anything, or, y'know, maybe not.
Well...it's more than that, I think, but yes, looks play a factor in opinions. If Magneto was 300 pounds with buggy eyes and bad hair, then we'd be a little less touched by his plight.

Magneto is a tragic hero, which means he could have been a hero, but he carries a profound flaw that makes him fall from grace (in this case, his anger and pain). Most great villains come from being tragic heroes.

Magneto's philosophies are hypocritical and he does end up becoming the thing he hates most. That's the tragedy of his character; just like an abused boy who grows up to abuse his own children, he has turned into the very evil that hurt him so dearly.

But, at the same time, you can see where his beliefs come from. He's seen the horror of what humanity can do (in fact, all he can see is the bad side of humanity) and believes that there's no hope of mutants being accepted into society. In order to protect his "race," he must either find a way to control humans or exterminate us. Deep down, his motivations come from pain, anger and even fear, and strangely, that's relatable.

But yes, he becomes exactly what he hates the most--which is the irony of his character (by the way, I LOVE older Magneto, too. Ian McKellen has such great presence and his Magneto is quite charming, actually).

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Old 09-13-2011, 11:47 AM   #531
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But yes, he becomes exactly what he hates the most--which is the irony of his character (by the way, I LOVE older Magneto, too. Ian McKellen has such great presence and his Magneto is quite charming, actually).
Eh, no-one ever started a thread about McKellen being some kind of superhero and being more 'badass' than Wolverine.

There is a double standard at work here, it's easier to hate one person for the same type of crimes than the other due to looks and image presentation/manipulation, it's just typical hypocritical human bs.

I'd say that a person who actually plotted to induce a mental breakdown in someone, who was actually going through the early stages of a mental breakdown(ie taking advantage of that fact), is someone who has the potential to have a lot of evil ways in their mind.


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Old 09-13-2011, 03:08 PM   #532
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Eh, no-one ever started a thread about McKellen being some kind of superhero and being more 'badass' than Wolverine.

There is a double standard at work here, it's easier to hate one person for the same type of crimes than the other due to looks and image presentation/manipulation, it's just typical hypocritical human bs.

I'd say that a person who actually plotted to induce a mental breakdown in someone, who was actually going through the early stages of a mental breakdown(ie taking advantage of that fact), is someone who has the potential to have a lot of evil ways in their mind.
I never called Magneto a superhero myself; I think he's the villain. And I don't know anything about Wolvie vs. Magneto in the badass category--I think they're both kinda scary, to be honest. All I was saying was that the older Magneto is still very charming and, as a character in a movie, I enjoy watching him. He's exactly what I want in a villain--smart, strong, and ruthless. He thinks he's the hero in the story.

I don't know what other people have been saying.

Another thing to consider is that, while X1 does show--vaguely--that Magneto was a Holocaust survivor, XM:FC shows what actually happened to him in the camps and takes you down the journey of HOW he became Magneto. I think he's the bad guy. I think anyone that wants to exterminate me just because I'm NOT what they are, is a bad guy. But I get where he's coming from. It doesn't mean I agree with it, but I see why he feels that way. And that's the best kind of villain.

It's much easier to sympathize when you know the reasons behind someone's actions. But just to make something clear--I'm a Charles fan!

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Old 09-13-2011, 03:50 PM   #533
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I think the reason this movie is so good is because of Magneto. All other X-men mutants pale incomparison to him in this film. He is like the Darth Vader that we had hoped to see in the new Star Wars episodes. Mostly everyone’s favorite X-men movie character is Wolverine, but after this movie that may change.

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Old 09-13-2011, 04:10 PM   #534
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I think the reason this movie is so good is because of Magneto. All other X-men mutants pale incomparison to him in this film. He is like the Darth Vader that we had hoped to see in the new Star Wars episodes. Mostly everyone’s favorite X-men movie character is Wolverine, but after this movie that may change.
Oh, come on now...give Charles some credit here, too. I don't think the movie would have been anything without the Erik/Charles relationship and how it fall apart at the end. And Raven and Hank were good in this as well. The other mutants...meh. They were fun to watch use their powers, but that's about it.

And yes, Magneto is the "Darth Vader" we had hoped to see in the Star Wars prequels (instead of a whiney little turd we got).

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Old 09-13-2011, 04:56 PM   #535
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Your right. The Erik/Charles relationship was required, and seeing Charles do more than usual was great, making him the second best character in the movie.


I thought Sebastian Shaw was great also, along with the other villains.


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Old 09-14-2011, 11:35 AM   #536
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It's much easier to sympathize when you know the reasons behind someone's actions.
haha, this is what I'm talking about, double standards.

By your logic, you should be sympathising with Hitler, right? The German people were beaten down by the, some would say, very unfair rules imposed on them after WWI, Hitler got the downtrodden Germans going again, but then blamed, not only the other countries who imposed these rules, but the innocent Jewish people for taking over the financial aspects of the country, so he set about wiping them out.


Same kind of tragectory with Magneto. He goes after the Nazis who went after the Jews, but at the same time feels he is actually of a superior race, so sets about wiping out homo-sapiens.

So, Hitler's 'heroic' phase, that of galvanising the German people together again as a nation, restoring their pride, is accompanied by his insane quest for genoicide.

Just as Magneto's 'heroic' phase of going after Nazi war criminals, is accompanied by his insane quest for genocide.

Both of their 'heroic' phases are tainted by the fact that all along throughout that phase, they believed the crazy notion that they were of a superior race.

Everything you said about Magneto in your past posts you could have said about Hitler.

They are not 'tragic heroes' imo, they are bad guys.

I actually felt guilty cheering Magneto on in FC.


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Old 09-14-2011, 12:48 PM   #537
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haha, this is what I'm talking about, double standards.

By your logic, you should be sympathising with Hitler, right? The German people were beaten down by the, some would say, very unfair rules imposed on them after WWI, Hitler got the downtrodden Germans going again, but then blamed, not only the other countries who imposed these rules, but the innocent Jewish people for taking over the financial aspects of the country, so he set about wiping them out.


Same kind of tragectory with Magneto. He goes after the Nazis who went after the Jews, but at the same time feels he is actually of a superior race, so sets about wiping out homo-sapiens.

So, Hitler's 'heroic' phase, that of galvanising the German people together again as a nation, restoring their pride, is accompanied by his insane quest for genoicide.

Just as Magneto's 'heroic' phase of going after Nazi war criminals, is accompanied by his insane quest for genocide.

Both of their 'heroic' phases are tainted by the fact that all along throughout that phase, they believed the crazy notion that they were of a superior race.

Everything you said about Magneto in your past posts you could have said about Hitler.

They are not 'tragic heroes' imo, they are bad guys.

I actually felt guilty cheering Magneto on in FC.
Okay...I'm trying hard not to take offense, but you're pushing it a little, buddy. I think the phrase, "it's just a movie" needs to be applied here. And I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth and pretty much calling me a Hitler sympathizer.

So I'm done talking with you. Believe what you want.

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Old 09-14-2011, 01:08 PM   #538
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Okay...I'm trying hard not to take offense, but you're pushing it a little, buddy. I think the phrase, "it's just a movie" needs to be applied here. And I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth and pretty much calling me a Hitler sympathizer.

So I'm done talking with you. Believe what you want.
Eh, you could have just said you disagreed, and said why, it was just an observation.
Or, y'know, you could have said that I made some good points, and Magneto was not a 'tragic hero' at all, and changed your opinion.
It was left open for disagreement.

and in regards to saying 'it's just a movie', well, if these movies are to have any substance beyond eye candy and sfx, then of course they should have well rounded characters that we can compare to real life people and historical events.

I mean, I wasn't getting personal with you there at all, just raising questions...I mean, I know it's alright for you to post up an observation of Anakin Skywalker as being ' a whiny little turd', as you did above after my last post, and no-one should take offence at that, as of course he is a fictional character, so I mean, I never did anything like that to you did I?


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Old 09-14-2011, 03:31 PM   #539
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Eh, you could have just said you disagreed, and said why, it was just an observation.
Or, y'know, you could have said that I made some good points, and Magneto was not a 'tragic hero' at all, and changed your opinion.
It was left open for disagreement.

and in regards to saying 'it's just a movie', well, if these movies are to have any substance beyond eye candy and sfx, then of course they should have well rounded characters that we can compare to real life people and historical events.

I mean, I wasn't getting personal with you there at all, just raising questions...I mean, I know it's alright for you to post up an observation of Anakin Skywalker as being ' a whiny little turd', as you did above after my last post, and no-one should take offence at that, as of course he is a fictional character, so I mean, I never did anything like that to you did I?
I'll be fair here and assume that you're not getting what I'm saying. Do you know the definition of a "tragic hero?" A "tragic hero" is a term that refers strictly to characters in story-telling, based from Greek mythology and following the "Hero's Journey." A tragic hero is someone who could have been the hero of the story if not for one fatal flaw. That flaw ultimately leads to either their demise or their downward spiral into becoming the villain. Yes, the bad guy. That is what it means.

Now, on a personal note, I think there is a grand difference between me calling a fictional character a "whiney little turd" and you suggesting that because I feel sorry for Magneto and his downfall, that I would also feel sorry for Hitler. Can you see the distinction?

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Old 09-14-2011, 04:14 PM   #540
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I'll be fair here and assume that you're not getting what I'm saying. Do you know the definition of a "tragic hero?" A "tragic hero" is a term that refers strictly to characters in story-telling, based from Greek mythology and following the "Hero's Journey." A tragic hero is someone who could have been the hero of the story if not for one fatal flaw. That flaw ultimately leads to either their demise or their downward spiral into becoming the villain. Yes, the bad guy. That is what it means.

Now, on a personal note, I think there is a grand difference between me calling a fictional character a "whiney little turd" and you suggesting that because I feel sorry for Magneto and his downfall, that I would also feel sorry for Hitler. Can you see the distinction?
I fully understood your point, with all due respect, I think you are missing my point.

My point was that Hitler did a lot of good for the German people and country, he re-organised a country that was totally lost and gave it back it's national pride.
*Now*, if he did not have the flaw of being a crazy man who felt his race was the superior, blamed other races for the problems of the world, and set about wiping them out, then he too could have been a 'hero'.
If he had not been such a crazy basket, maybe his leadership qualities and charisma could have been put to good use.

and it's the same with Magneto, he has his heroic moments, and had good intentions for the world, but he was also into the idea that his race was superior and had no problems wiping out normal humans in his pursuit of peace and prosperity for his kind.


the thing here is that because Magneto is a fictional comicbook character, it is more acceptable to label him the 'tragic hero', whereas if you bring up the name of the most hated dictator in recent history, and were to label him the same way, you'd be chased out of the village with a pitchfork so far up your butt you would have three wee devil horns poking out of your head.

and that is what I am saying, that I don't agree that Magneto is a tragic hero, because he always carried that notion of his race being superior, even when he was doing the heroic things, and because his crimes afterwards were *so* reprehensible.

and i do think you can make this correlation between him and Hitler.

Now, I am sorry if I am spoiling anyone's viewing of XM:FC, but I can only say that it looks to me like there is a correlation there, and it is dangerous to label one person one thing, and another a different thing for the same crimes, because it makes you uncomfortable, or because it is taboo.

I mean, I was being serious here, I was honestly quite surprised at the amount of hero worship Magneto was getting, and that was what it was, hero worship, it wasn't along the lines of folk applauding Ledger's Joker for being a great creation.

But, y'know, I get it, Magneto is a great cb character, we all want to see him do the heroic things, and y'know, it's a great superhero movie, he has some superb scenes in it, and he is played by a young good looking charismatic actor.
Hell, i enjoyed the Argentina bar scene as much as anyone, but I'm not gonna kid myself on about the character, I'm gonna feel guilty about liking the scenes with him in that way.

I guess it's much easier to cut off the fact of his crimes as it is fiction, rather than sitting watching a doc on hitler, because there is no way anyone with a sound mind is gonna sit and applaud him for having any heroic qualities. But, y'know, he may well might have had some, and they just got twisted up, like Magneto's.


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Old 09-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #541
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Eh, no-one ever started a thread about McKellen being some kind of superhero and being more 'badass' than Wolverine.

There is a double standard at work here, it's easier to hate one person for the same type of crimes than the other due to looks and image presentation/manipulation, it's just typical hypocritical human bs.

I'd say that a person who actually plotted to induce a mental breakdown in someone, who was actually going through the early stages of a mental breakdown(ie taking advantage of that fact), is someone who has the potential to have a lot of evil ways in their mind.
Ehh it's not as dramatic a double standard as you're making out. McKellen portrayed a villain, Fassbender did not.

One guy risked the deaths of many people with a faulty mutating device, attempted to manipulate his old friend into killing every human on the planet, and waged war with a group innocently trying to help mutants avoid their persecution (how ever misguided that attempt may have been).
The other guy travelled the world like James Bond, tracking down and killing bad guys.

They're the same person, but at very different points in their lives and defined by their actions.

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Old 09-14-2011, 10:13 PM   #542
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Where's my Fassbender toy gosh darnit.




It's obviously not official but it's better than nothing. I made this a few weeks ago since we weren't getting any official figures, and I've got a few more in the works.

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Old 09-14-2011, 10:14 PM   #543
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thats awesome

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Old 09-15-2011, 04:43 AM   #544
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Can you paint uniform over the old Mystique figure ?

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Old 09-15-2011, 06:58 AM   #545
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Ehh it's not as dramatic a double standard as you're making out. McKellen portrayed a villain, Fassbender did not.

One guy risked the deaths of many people with a faulty mutating device, attempted to manipulate his old friend into killing every human on the planet, and waged war with a group innocently trying to help mutants avoid their persecution (how ever misguided that attempt may have been).
The other guy travelled the world like James Bond, tracking down and killing bad guys.

They're the same person, but at very different points in their lives and defined by their actions.
Eh, he turned those missiles back onto the army at the end of the movie, wanting to kill people who were just following orders, instead of just flying them into the sea.
And he still has that notion of his race being superior all through the movie.

and as I said, his crimes afterwards are so reprehensible, and the attitude that those crimes stem from so apparent in the movie, that I find it difficult to applaud him without feeling guilty and hypocritical.

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Old 09-15-2011, 07:31 AM   #546
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A lot of what I skimmed through was frankly TLDR but comparing Magneto to Hitler is extreme.

Magneto to me is a tragic villain, at least in the movie timeline. He's not pure evil. He was ready to kill the people on the ships because they shot first.
His motivation has never been flat out genocide, it's more complicated than that. He wants mutants to live free of fear and harm from the humans, whom he feels would never be anything but cruel to mutants. His argument with Charles, "You believe they're all like Moira" indicates this. And in X1 he's not interested in KILLING humans on a grand scale, he's keen on making them mutants. He and Charles DO want the same thing: the protection of mutants everywhere. It's just that Charles hides his fellow mutants from the problem and Erik tries to flat out eliminate the problem. Evil is simply much too strong a word for Erik and relating him to Hitler is absolutely absurd.

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Old 09-15-2011, 08:04 AM   #547
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A lot of what I skimmed through was frankly TLDR but comparing Magneto to Hitler is extreme.

Magneto to me is a tragic villain, at least in the movie timeline. He's not pure evil. He was ready to kill the people on the ships because they shot first.
His motivation has never been flat out genocide, it's more complicated than that. He wants mutants to live free of fear and harm from the humans, whom he feels would never be anything but cruel to mutants. His argument with Charles, "You believe they're all like Moira" indicates this. And in X1 he's not interested in KILLING humans on a grand scale, he's keen on making them mutants. He and Charles DO want the same thing: the protection of mutants everywhere. It's just that Charles hides his fellow mutants from the problem and Erik tries to flat out eliminate the problem. Evil is simply much too strong a word for Erik and relating him to Hitler is absolutely absurd.
Thank you, Blueserenity. I think those are excellent points which I agree with completely, and I'm going to add some more.

Most of Magneto's actions have been reactions to what humans are doing. In X1, there were Senators (like Kelly) who flat-out said that if it were up to him, he'd lock all mutants away (kind of like imprisonmnet camps). There were humans holding up effigies of mutants hanging by ropes and people cheering that on.

In X2, Magneto didn't start the war with Stryker--he didn't create a second Cerebro to hunt down and kill humans. Magneto switching Cerebro to kill humans--as horrible and ruthless and villainous as it was--was a reaction to what humans were trying to do to the mutants. Do I agree with it? Uh, no...definitely not. But I can see why he did it and that makes the best villain.

The same can be said for X3 and the cure (although I really didn't like 99% of that movie, so I'm not going to bother defending it here).

And in XM:FC--blueserenity, you've hit it right-on. The humans shot first. They were trying to murder innocent people on the beach. Magneto reacted and you can understand exactly why he did what he did.

Comparing Magneto to Hitler is--yes, yes and yes--absolutely absurd.

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Old 09-15-2011, 12:07 PM   #548
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How on Earth does it make it any different that Magento didn't make a grand plan to kill off all the normal humans in X2? He still tried to do it when the opportunity arose.
are you kidding me?

and when the machine in X1 is revealed to be deadly to humans, he still goes on with his plan, knowing the machine would kill all of New York.

and Magneto knew those guys firing on them in XMFC were only following orders, he could have just dumped the missiles in the sea.
He was not as bad a villan in FC, yes, but still a villan.

Anyway, I am getting a bit fed up of talking about Hitler, lol, but I think I made all the points on that I could. Disagree if you must, do your fancyfootwork to try and avoid some pertinant points, but I think there is a comparison to be made there.

edit:

Ok, one more point in regrds to what you were saying, and then I'll leave it there...

Hitler defying and going up against the countries he felt treated Germany badly in the fallout after WWI is one thing, he might have had a point there, not enough to go to war with, but enough of a point to fight against the rulings and defy those rulings.

But, then he was a crazy person and blamed innocent people too, and felt the world would be abtter off without them altogether, hence his genocidal plan coming to formation.

Similar to Magnaeto...he has a point about *some* humans and poiliticians wanting Mutants rounded up and put in camps, or even killed. That *should* be defied and fought against, but they hadn't done it yet had they? It wasn't enough to go to war on.

But, then he was a crazy person and blamed innocent people too, and felt the world would be better off without them altogether, hence his genocidal plan coming to formation.

and it doesn't matter of he took 20years or 20minutes to come up with that plan to wipe out the humans in X-Men2, same deal.

edit: I am not saying they are exactly the same, of course not, for one thing, Magneto is a fictional character with all kinds of story and plot conceits in there. But I think there is enough there to warrant a comparison that is not absurd, what is absurd, is saying that Magento's 20min plan to kill off all of humanity is somehow not as bad as if he had planned to do it for 20yrs, which y'know, is something he might have thought about from time to time anyway.


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Old 09-15-2011, 11:18 PM   #549
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Default Re: The official Michael Fassbender / Magneto thread

To be perfectly frank Thebum, I stopped reading your commentary as soon as you compared Magneto to Hitler.......... That one comment alone is enough to tell me that you clearly have a wildly different interpretation of the character than most.

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Old 09-15-2011, 11:29 PM   #550
Darkness Falls
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Default Re: The official Michael Fassbender / Magneto thread

wait...... what..... how can you possibly compare magneto to hitler

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