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Old 07-03-2010, 09:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Wonderful article. Some lines in there are sigworthy. I think I'll use of them when I replace my present one.

ETA: I'm embarrassed to admit that I once thought Superman was irrelevant and just a boy scout. This board proved me wrong.

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Old 07-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

The question is NOT whether Superman is relevant in today’s world….it’s whether he’s entertaining. Truth be told … he’s gotten stiff and boring. At least in some incarnations. One of the few places he’s interesting is the Animated series by Timm and Dini.

Superman can still be trying to do the right thing but why can’t he have moments where he loses his patience and get’s a bit angry? Why can’t he make a bad judgement call without being considered a dimwit?

Clark was raised by two down-to-earth souls and carries them with him but he doesn’t need to be naive. Why can’t Superman have more of a whole world sense about him when dealing with people? I mean he doesn’t need to look at the world as a wide-eyed newbie. He can have more a way about him that the George Reeve’s incarnation did. He doesn’t need to be the Donner/Christopher Reeve ‘Superman’. Sure Chris looked incredible as the character and had some great moments but, c’mon people, he was naive in a lot of ways.

My version of Clark is the one who traveled the world trying to discover how he fit in before he ever even thought of adopting the Superman personna.

This article, while interesting and thoughtful, forgets that the larger conversation is about whether Superman can still be entertaining in a world that is looking for more drama and can’t be satisfied with just feats of ‘derring’ combined with a flashy costume and fantastic abilities. He’s got to be a character that we can empathize with and relate to. He doesn’t have to be a terrible person but he also can’t be two-dimensional.

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Old 07-04-2010, 11:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Good article. I think Superman as an icon is still relevant , however I think they way they've portrayed the character over the past 20 years or so has been a mistake. He's become more Christ ,God and Boyscout like that the recent films and cartoon's he's lost all of the charm he use to have. If you look at the 30's comics , he had a personality and could be a bit brash. George Reeves and Chris Reeves both gave the character charm and wit and a likeability about them.

Dean Cain was the last version of Superman that really gave him humanity and not a statue of STAS and SR. The character has become so iconic the writers have forgotton about the "man" aspect of Superman. In that sense they need to go back to the characters roots and remember that he does have a personality .

As far as the film francise goes , I think you have a larger issue of a generation of filmmakers being intimadated by the Donner film. It seems they either want to do something completely different which isn't remotely Superman , I.E. The JJ Abrams script, or they want to just remake the 78 film but updated, i.e Bryan Singer.

They see it as a daunting task of remaking the Godfather ,as opposed trying to do a fresh version that at the same time respects the mythos and versions that came before.

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Old 07-05-2010, 12:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

well hopefully it can be all that this next go around

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Old 07-05-2010, 10:58 PM   #30
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An absolutely amazing article that tries to identify the heart of the Superman story and character. It's a shame we can't be certain that Chris Nolan and his confidants read that before they go out and make their film.

It's sad that we live in such a cynical and selfish world today. Pick up any newspaper and all we can read about are fat cats getting richer at the expense of the defenseless and political spin-doctors who care only about flooding the airwaves with talking points.

Superman stands for everything good and pure in each and every one of us. Yes, that may not make him the most entertaining but that does not make him two-dimensional. What a shame that we think no one can be this good anymore, that no one can act humbly and solely for the benefit of others.

What sets Superman apart from mere naivete is that he KNOWS that people aren't always good and that we make terrible choices, but he truly believes that we can also make great decisions and accomplish great things. He never gives up on that belief. His powers aside, I always felt that this is what made him Superman.

As I've grown older, it's that aspect of Superman -- to see the very best in people and to want to do my very best for others -- that I've latched onto. Sure, in this cynical and selfish world, it is easy to dismiss such hope as fictional fallacies or fairytale gibberish. But the world turns every day because in the end, there are people like Superman among us -- those who are willing to stand by truth, justice and that once-inspirational American Way.

How great it would be for Nolan to remind people what Superman really stands for, and why -- as the writer of that marvelous article put it -- concepts that may be cheesy or annoying are so very, very important.

Now that would be grand entertainment a thousand Dark Knights couldn't beat.

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Old 07-06-2010, 07:03 AM   #31
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

I do think his points are great, and thats what the character of Superman should be all about in the reboot, but, i'm fearful that WB may not see it that way.
No, I dont think they'll go all TDK on Supes, but I don't think we're gonna get whats wrote about him up above either..somewhere in the middle I think.

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Old 07-06-2010, 07:24 AM   #32
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Double Trouble.

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Old 07-06-2010, 01:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

yea hopefully find a good middle ground i agree. Hopefully nolans/goyer can keep wb's demands in check.

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Old 07-06-2010, 01:56 PM   #34
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

how is this a good article?

where is the solution to make a superman movie that would make fans and masses happy?


all i read is a guy who is a fan of superman and thinks that he is perfect in the comics. all i see is a guy who needs to put down spiderman and batman to feel good.

'' He’s an example of everything a man should be…and what do we call him? Unrealistic.''

WTF??? so they should make a movie about a perfect alien that looks like a human and has red underwear outside ?

this is not a good article. this is just a fanboy writting about how superman is good to him. i respect that. but i got nothing out of this article.

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Old 07-06-2010, 02:01 PM   #35
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

yea hopefully find a good middle ground i agree. Hopefully nolans/goyer can keep wb's demands in check.

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Old 07-06-2010, 02:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

yea hopefully find a good middle ground i agree. Hopefully nolans/goyer can keep wb's demands in check.

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Old 07-06-2010, 03:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Of Course Superman’s still relevant. He would’ve ended up like The Phantom if he weren’t.

Superman just needs a movie that resonates with the audiences. I remember after B & R when Batman was out of style. All it took was two films by Nolan, and now posers at Hot Topic shop for Batman shirts.

Fans on SHH! Seem to have this idea that SR underperformed because it was tied to a version of Superman they personally dislike, when the truth was, SR was just dull, Donner connection or not. It was made in such a way that people did not wanna see it again, and did not want to see a sequel to that world.

Give the audience a more exciting story and they’ll like Superman again. It dosent matter if you do an origin or not. It dosent matter if Clark is a geek or not. It dosent matter if Clark’s parents are alive or dead. Hell, you don’t even need to have a villain from the comics. Filmmakers just need to make a story that makes superman and his world interesting again.

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Old 07-07-2010, 02:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
Of Course Superman’s still relevant. He would’ve ended up like The Phantom if he weren’t.

Superman just needs a movie that resonates with the audiences. I remember after B & R when Batman was out of style. All it took was two films by Nolan, and now posers at Hot Topic shop for Batman shirts.

Fans on SHH! Seem to have this idea that SR underperformed because it was tied to a version of Superman they personally dislike, when the truth was, SR was just dull, Donner connection or not. It was made in such a way that people did not wanna see it again, and did not want to see a sequel to that world.

Give the audience a more exciting story and they’ll like Superman again. It dosent matter if you do an origin or not. It dosent matter if Clark is a geek or not. It dosent matter if Clark’s parents are alive or dead. Hell, you don’t even need to have a villain from the comics. Filmmakers just need to make a story that makes superman and his world interesting again.
and it doesnt matter if they use the suit from the comics.

just joking.

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Old 07-07-2010, 08:02 AM   #39
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
Of Course Superman’s still relevant. He would’ve ended up like The Phantom if he weren’t.

Superman just needs a movie that resonates with the audiences. I remember after B & R when Batman was out of style. All it took was two films by Nolan, and now posers at Hot Topic shop for Batman shirts.

Fans on SHH! Seem to have this idea that SR underperformed because it was tied to a version of Superman they personally dislike, when the truth was, SR was just dull, Donner connection or not. It was made in such a way that people did not wanna see it again, and did not want to see a sequel to that world.

Give the audience a more exciting story and they’ll like Superman again. It dosent matter if you do an origin or not. It dosent matter if Clark is a geek or not. It dosent matter if Clark’s parents are alive or dead. Hell, you don’t even need to have a villain from the comics. Filmmakers just need to make a story that makes superman and his world interesting again.
I kinda agree. I remember back when it was said that SR would be a continuation of donner's universe. Most, but not all, didnt really have a big problem with it. The problem was the feel, the story, and the lack of action.
I think that If singer had contined on with the donnerverse, but made it brighter in tone, no lois, richard, and superman love triangle, no kid, a supervillain with a couple of good fights, a businessman Lex who stole the crystals for tech *not* real estate, then imo we would have not only had our sequel by now we would also probably be talking about the upcoming third film.

My fear with the upcoming film is that some up and coming hollywood big shot will convince the powers that be that Supes needs completely revamped, and we'll get something that is superman in name only. It happens all the time.
I'll feel better once the director is announced and we hear his thoughts.

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Old 07-07-2010, 10:26 AM   #40
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

yea i cant wait to hear views on director.

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Old 07-07-2010, 02:15 PM   #41
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Superman is still relevant. To show how relevant and why, Action Comics #775 (with some tweaks) should be the basis for the new movie.

The article is very nice and shows why Superman is relevant, perhaps more now than ever. It's something I realized a while ago and what makes Superman the greatest superhero ever: he always does the right thing and uses his powers for everyone, something that most of us wouldn't do.


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Old 07-07-2010, 04:39 PM   #42
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to be honest I flicked through Superman: Up, Up and away and it had Lex take over the Fortress kind of like Superman Returns except he was firing crystals and had total control of it and it was a threat rather than just a large lump of kryptonite, if they had done that it Superman returns it might have made it better but still the film would still feel like a homage.

The only thing we should have from the Donner films is: Verisimilitude

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Old 07-08-2010, 09:21 PM   #43
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Great, great read and I agree 100% with it. No other superhero spurns discussions this interesting and that alone is part of why Superman is the greatest.

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Old 07-09-2010, 08:24 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeogbs19 View Post
An absolutely amazing article that tries to identify the heart of the Superman story and character. It's a shame we can't be certain that Chris Nolan and his confidants read that before they go out and make their film.
On the contrary, Nolan's perchance for delving into his characters' core, along with emotional and thematic placement in the story, greatly serves the notion that we could very well finally have another Superman film that the masses can associate with. Nolan's remarks of how Goyer's idea for a new take on the character impressed and inspired him to go straight to the studio, gives me confidence that this isn't simply a run-of-the-mill reboot. I think they actually have a story on their hands that hasn't been done in live-action before. What this article has dictated is one of the few places where that could take us.

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how is this a good article?

where is the solution to make a superman movie that would make fans and masses happy?
Hardly the intention of the article. It was to answer the forever lingering question of whether Superman has a place in today's society. His crown has undoubtedly been taken and worn by many suitors that his reign is a mere memory.

The discussion tackles the issue of whether Superman CAN be made pertinent in the modern world, not HOW.

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Old 07-09-2010, 10:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

yea crook i really cant wait to see what type of story goyer and jonah wrote that got chris excited and all that. I really hope they turned out a super script that hits all the right points that need to be hit for superman.

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Old 07-09-2010, 01:27 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Hardly the intention of the article. It was to answer the forever lingering question of whether Superman has a place in today's society. His crown has undoubtedly been taken and worn by many suitors that his reign is a mere memory.

The discussion tackles the issue of whether Superman CAN be made pertinent in the modern world, not HOW.
nothing was answered. and i dont see proof that it can be done in a modern world from hes article.

all i see is a fan who likes superman.

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Old 07-11-2010, 03:04 PM   #47
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well that's not a bad thing, really. I suggest you guys check this video:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ItsJustS...79/QXMSDrcABDk

(you should see part 1 first of course) first its funny as hell, and second it addresses some of what,s been brought up in this thread.

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Old 07-12-2010, 12:49 PM   #48
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

random guy that guy is great. I love his vids.

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Old 07-15-2010, 06:17 AM   #49
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTyler View Post
The question is NOT whether Superman is relevant in today’s world….it’s whether he’s entertaining. Truth be told … he’s gotten stiff and boring. At least in some incarnations. One of the few places he’s interesting is the Animated series by Timm and Dini.

Superman can still be trying to do the right thing but why can’t he have moments where he loses his patience and get’s a bit angry? Why can’t he make a bad judgement call without being considered a dimwit?

Clark was raised by two down-to-earth souls and carries them with him but he doesn’t need to be naive. Why can’t Superman have more of a whole world sense about him when dealing with people? I mean he doesn’t need to look at the world as a wide-eyed newbie. He can have more a way about him that the George Reeve’s incarnation did. He doesn’t need to be the Donner/Christopher Reeve ‘Superman’. Sure Chris looked incredible as the character and had some great moments but, c’mon people, he was naive in a lot of ways.

My version of Clark is the one who traveled the world trying to discover how he fit in before he ever even thought of adopting the Superman personna.

This article, while interesting and thoughtful, forgets that the larger conversation is about whether Superman can still be entertaining in a world that is looking for more drama and can’t be satisfied with just feats of ‘derring’ combined with a flashy costume and fantastic abilities. He’s got to be a character that we can empathize with and relate to. He doesn’t have to be a terrible person but he also can’t be two-dimensional.
I think also, when people make him all-powerful and all-good, what can be his arc? The only movie I can think of where the protagonist learned absolutely nothing by the end of the movie is (500) Days of Summer, and he still changed somewhat during the storyline.

Superman will have had to learn something about himself at the end of the movie, but in letting him be the perfect hero - strong, smart, moral - what can you do with him?

Not saying that finding a compelling arc will be impossible, but I think it's something that the author of this article has to take into account.

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Old 07-18-2010, 11:44 PM   #50
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Default Re: "Is Superman Still Relevant?"

Being a "do gooder" isn't easy, that is Superman struggle. Not that everyone could relate to that, but still can make for some interesting development.

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