The Kevin Bacon/Sebastian Shaw Thread

[Squidboy]

Originally Posted by JP

Halle was still up and coming. She didn't win her oscar until a year after X-Men.

Ah, at least I had the right decade. I guess it makes more sense as to why she started having an attitude about not getting enough lines after the fact, but then getting that Razzie for Catwoman almost brought her back to reality.

[TNC9852002]

Don't even go there, Squidboy.

Storm was shortchanged in the first movie and everyone knew it (but no one wanted to admit it)---People still act as if Halle was the only one who wanted more to do in the movies. Plain and simple: people just don't care about Storm and people don't care about Halle Berry. Her winning that Oscar just put a target on her head.

I mean, would you rather her get paid all that money and did nothing?

No, you're right! Screw her for trying to help bring the character to life!

DAMMIT! It's 2002 all over again...

[/rant]

[JP]

Screw her for screwing the character with her suckage, I always say.

[Octoberist]

Honestly, Halle got a lot of crap from fanboys but it did become the "Hugh and Halle show" by the time X3 arrive. I always think when the actor's wants and needs are play a role in the script, then a conflict of interest happens.

X3 sucked anyway.

[chaseter]

When I heard that Halle demanded more screen time for X3 or she wasn't coming back, my doubts were just piling up more and more. As soon as I heard Jackman was a producer and giving Hood insights into the character, I knew Wolverine was in trouble. When Kirsten Dunst said she would never come back for SM3, I knew they would try their best to get her back. All that means changing the script. Let the director and writers do their thing.

[JP]

Yeah, I know a lot of people talk about Bryan Leaving, but I also don't think it's coincidence that the films started sucking as soon as Hugh became a producer. He produced X3 as well.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

I heard conflicting reports, with some people their using this to reboot the franchise in a more sleathy manner. How much are they going to b bound by the other movies, is Cyclops going to be at the school right away because if they are ignoring parts of the other movies, its at least somewhat of a reboot.

And if its a prequel, I don't see how they can work in the Sentinels, as I explained in my post above and the other human villains would be redundant after Stryker.

The Sentinels could have happened in the past. Stryker had an Operation Wideawake (codename for the Sentinels) file on the computer Mystique hacked into in X2. The X-Men fought one in the Danger Room in X3.

Maybe there was a Sentinels incident in the past. It doesn't necessarily mean the general public or wider world would be aware of it. It could have happened on a remote island or the Sentinels' base could have been destroyed before they were all launched.

Originally Posted by The Overlord

So they are going to stick to the contiuinity of the other movies exactly, with Xavier already having rescued Cyclops from that weapon X lab and Trask being the sectary of defense? There's not going to be scene where Xavier recruits cyclops, because that already happened poorly in the Wolverine movie?

I don't see how they can work in the sentinels considering what went on in the other movies, why didn't the government use the sentinels in the and if Kevin Bacon is going to play Trask, as some would suggest here, what does that mean for the Bill Dukes Trask we see in X-Men 3?

Some variations still doesn't mean it's a reboot.

And who says Kevin Bacon is Trask? His role hasn't been revealed so it's far too early to start going on about him being different to the X3 trask.

See above for Sentinels reasoning.

[TNC9852002]

Originally Posted by JP

Screw her for screwing the character with her suckage, I always say.

Yeah, the writers had nothing to do with it either!

[JP]

Originally Posted by TNC9852002

Yeah, the writers had nothing to do with it either!

No, not really. I have no problems with her lines. I do have a major problem with her mousy delivery, that turned into b****y delivery in X3.

[bullets]

Originally Posted by TheVelvetOnion

The X-Men did relay on big names, Singer had Patrick Stewart of Star Trek fame, and Sir Ian McKellan of Theatre fame...he brought these two in so that people would watch the first x-men movie

In X-Men 2, they brought in Alan Cumming...

In X-Men 3, They brought in Vinnie Jones...

In X-Men Origins Wolverine, They brought in Ryan Reynolds

I'm convinced most people in these films were chosen on their ability to perform and not stunt casting.

Kevin Bacon is a good actor , i don't immediately picture him as Mr Sinister but that character hasn't been confirmed.

[Superhero 101]

maybe he is senator kelly or maybe like a younger version

[Phoenix_Flare]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

In terms of role a villain plays in a hero's universe, how is Stryker and Gradyon Creed different? Creed himself seems redundant, unless he is a side plot, instead of the main villain, making him the main villain in a film like this would make it too similar to X-Men 2, what would Creed bring to the table that we didn't already see with Stryker?

As for the Sentinels, is this movie a prequel or a reboot? Because if its not a reboot, how would they explain why sentinels were severed used by the government to control mutants in the first 3 X-Men movies or explain how the guy who is supposed to have invented the sentinels, is a big black guy who became the secretary of defense and looks nothing like Kevin Bacon?

Also frankly there tons of villains that haven't been used yet, so why use Graydon Creed, who doesn't seem epic enough to carry a whole movie.

People this is a prequel!!!!!!!! Truth be told i don't think they're taking what was in X3 into consideration...yes their was a character named "Trask" but it was never stated in X3 as being "Bolivar Trask" creator of the Sentinels and the sentinels never played a part in the orginal trilogy...yes we saw a sentinel in the danger room, but it was never stated in the film as being a "sentinel" it could've have been a danger room sentry robot, so once again their a lot of plot holes in X3...I think First Class is taking some ideas from what Bryan intended his X3 to be, and probably useing those ideas for this film....I think people are being to critical about this film and it hasn't even started production yet....geesh!!!

and far as Stryker and Creed are concerned Stryker wanted to kill all mutants because his own son who was a mutant killed his wife, that it fueled his hatred for mutants...Clearly in XMO:W he was working side-by-side w/mutants and samething in X2 w/Lady Deathstrike....Craydon never wanted to kill all mutants on Earth he was ashamed that his parents are mutants, so these 2 men are in no way shape or form alike its that case then they coudl've used him in X2 but he didn't serve the purpose for that story and was not used...so maybe in 1st Class he may or may not be a character...

[Mr. Fixit]

If Kevin's in it I'm sure he'll be awesome whoever he plays.

I didn't even think about it until you guys mentioned it - but a main human villain does make the most the sense to cause the riff between Charles and Magneto. However that doesnt mean we can't have Sinister in the background somewhere pulling the strings.

[Squidboy]

Storm is one of my favorite X-character, so it's nothing to do with hate for the character, and everything to do with Halle's interference causing such a disservice for the character. It blows that she has next to nothing to say in the first two movies, but when she did say something, it meant something.

Even if it has to be "Do you know what happens to a Toad when it's struck by lightning". In X3 she would not shut up and it got to the point where I couldn't stand her voice by the end of it. In the scene where she's rambling on about how they're not a disease and there's nothing to cure, Patrick Stewart looks like it was the fifth take of listening to that line, so the best thing for him to do is say "shut up, they're announcing it now".

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

The Sentinels could have happened in the past. Stryker had an Operation Wideawake (codename for the Sentinels) file on the computer Mystique hacked into in X2. The X-Men fought one in the Danger Room in X3.

Maybe there was a Sentinels incident in the past. It doesn't necessarily mean the general public or wider world would be aware of it. It could have happened on a remote island or the Sentinels' base could have been destroyed before they were all launched.

If you believe that the X3 game was part of the movieverse continuity, then the Sentinels have appeared before the start of that movie, as a backup plan in case Stryker couldn't exterminate mutantkind with his Dark Cerebro.

[BMM]

A human villain isn't necessary to serve as a wedge. If anything, I think it’s redundant. Magneto has made it clear throughout the trilogy that his experience with the Nazis is enough to drive his mistrust and hatred of humanity (Let them pass that law, and they’ll have you in chains with a number burned into your forehead, I have been marked once… let me assure you, no needle shall ever touch my skin again). As a boy, he was separated from his family and watched as they were herded into a gas chamber to meet their deaths in one of the greatest tragedies in human history and simply because they were different. What could be more powerful than that???

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by JP

Screw her for screwing the character with her suckage, I always say.

Rather unfair. She had some great moments and she only fought for more characterisation because she was aware that fans wanted it. Storm did need defining a lot more in the films.

Singer probably got the best performance out of Halle (acting-wise), as he did too with McKellen, Jackman and Stewart, even though he and his writers made Storm rather meek.

The films haven't yet got a proper handle on the character at all.

[Phoenix_Flare]

^ I agree...the only thing they got write was letting her loose w/her powers...X3 finally brought out the warrior by letting her fight....


and to the comment about another human villain...the Nazi's serves a purpose to Eric b4 he discovered his mutant power, so it makes sense to have a human villina whether it be a major or minor role to show how his hatred for humanity deepens and grows...I've been saying for weeks what if their was another human villian...who remined Eric of the Nazi's...imprisoning mutants, concentration camps, killing them, etc that would make him go off the deep end and realize humanity will never change...imo it will make a good storyline...to put a past behind you and to see it happen again it'll make Eric/Magento's character more of Anti-hero instead of villian...

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Flare

People this is a prequel!!!!!!!! Truth be told i don't think they're taking what was in X3 into consideration...yes their was a character named "Trask" but it was never stated in X3 as being "Bolivar Trask" creator of the Sentinels and the sentinels never played a part in the orginal trilogy...yes we saw a sentinel in the danger room, but it was never stated in the film as being a "sentinel" it could've have been a danger room sentry robot, so once again their a lot of plot holes in X3...I think First Class is taking some ideas from what Bryan intended his X3 to be, and probably useing those ideas for this film....I think people are being to critical about this film and it hasn't even started production yet....geesh!!!

and far as Stryker and Creed are concerned Stryker wanted to kill all mutants because his own son who was a mutant killed his wife, that it fueled his hatred for mutants...Clearly in XMO:W he was working side-by-side w/mutants and samething in X2 w/Lady Deathstrike....Craydon never wanted to kill all mutants on Earth he was ashamed that his parents are mutants, so these 2 men are in no way shape or form alike its that case then they coudl've used him in X2 but he didn't serve the purpose for that story and was not used...so maybe in 1st Class he may or may not be a character...

So there are two characters named Trask in these movies and they have nothing to do with each other? That's kinda silly.

That just means Gradyon has a slightly different motive for a being a genocidal monster, it still means he has the same role as stryker did.

I really don't see how Creed is an epic enough villain to be the big bad in a movie, it seems like Graydon should be a side plot, not the main villain. Stryker they could justify by making him a powerful government official and having access to his mutant son who could produce a mind controlling serum that allowed him to enslave other mutants.

What kind of climatic battle could you have at the end, if it is just Creed and FOH were the only villains? What does Creed bring to the table that makes him different from Stryker?

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

The Sentinels could have happened in the past. Stryker had an Operation Wideawake (codename for the Sentinels) file on the computer Mystique hacked into in X2. The X-Men fought one in the Danger Room in X3.

Maybe there was a Sentinels incident in the past. It doesn't necessarily mean the general public or wider world would be aware of it. It could have happened on a remote island or the Sentinels' base could have been destroyed before they were all launched.

Why wouldn't the government have used Sentinels to deal with mutants in the first 3 films, if the prequels would show they had access to them in the past?

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Some variations still doesn't mean it's a reboot.

And who says Kevin Bacon is Trask? His role hasn't been revealed so it's far too early to start going on about him being different to the X3 trask.

See above for Sentinels reasoning.

Wasn't the Incredible Hulk a reboot of the first Hulk movie and the only difference is some variations?

I'm not saying he is Trask, if you checked my posts, people suggested him as Trask or someone do with the Sentinels and I pointed out that Bill Dukes was Trask in X-Men 3.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Flare

^ I agree...the only thing they got write was letting her loose w/her powers...X3 finally brought out the warrior by letting her fight....


and to the comment about another human villain...the Nazi's serves a purpose to Eric b4 he discovered his mutant power, so it makes sense to have a human villina whether it be a major or minor role to show how his hatred for humanity deepens and grows...I've been saying for weeks what if their was another human villian...who remined Eric of the Nazi's...imprisoning mutants, concentration camps, killing them, etc that would make him go off the deep end and realize humanity will never change...imo it will make a good storyline...to put a past behind you and to see it happen again it'll make Eric/Magento's character more of Anti-hero instead of villian...

And how would Graydon creed provide a physical threat to the X-Men and Magneto? what would the climax be? What would the final battle be? What kind of fight scenes would there be?

Plus sin't first class the start of a series of prequels, so shouldn't someone like Graydon creed show up later, because shouldn't the split happen over a series of films instead of trying to fit in one?

[BMM]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Flare

and to the comment about another human villain...the Nazi's serves a purpose to Eric b4 he discovered his mutant power, so it makes sense to have a human villina whether it be a major or minor role to show how his hatred for humanity deepens and grows...I've been saying for weeks what if their was another human villian...who remined Eric of the Nazi's...imprisoning mutants, concentration camps, killing them, etc that would make him go off the deep end and realize humanity will never change...imo it will make a good storyline...to put a past behind you and to see it happen again it'll make Eric/Magento's character more of Anti-hero instead of villian...

As a minor villain, perhaps. I still think it's redundant, though. I don't think Magneto ever puts the Holocaust behind him, and, if this movie is to take place in America during the 1960s, there are plenty of reasons to remind him just how intolerant people are of those who are different.

Originally Posted by The Overlord

Why wouldn't the government have used Sentinels to deal with mutants in the first 3 films, if the prequels would show they had access to them in the past?

Perhaps the Government doesn't have access to them or perhaps something went wrong that makes the Government wary of deploying such weapons. After all, In the books, the sentinels turn on humans quite frequently.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by The Overlord

Why wouldn't the government have used Sentinels to deal with mutants in the first 3 films, if the prequels would show they had access to them in the past?

You have very limited thinking on this.

Maybe it was a secret government project. Maybe it was not part of the government at all.

The president in X2 seemed unaware of what Stryker was up to at Alkali Lake. I doubt a president would condone what Stryker was doing to his son and Xavier, let alone Stryker's plans to wipe out all the world's mutants. That's because a lot of Stryker's activities were outside the government's knowledge.

However, if the government WAS involved in approving Sentinels, it could be that the first attempt went terribly wrong, leading to the project being shelved or aborted and filed away in secret. So it wouldn't necessarily be seen as an available, viable, workable option in future. That's why atomic bombs aren't being used in modern warfare.

It could also be that the Sentinels were an independent project completely outside the government, much like the mutant cure was in X3 (the government only found out when Mystique was captured).

There have many different Sentinel programs in the comics, not all of them linked to the government.

[TNC9852002]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Rather unfair. She had some great moments and she only fought for more characterisation because she was aware that fans wanted it. Storm did need defining a lot more in the films.

Singer probably got the best performance out of Halle (acting-wise), as he did too with McKellen, Jackman and Stewart, even though he and his writers made Storm rather meek.

The films haven't yet got a proper handle on the character at all.

This is true, but it's also true for pretty much all of the other characters that didn't directly tie into the main storylines of each film. I've just always been upset at how people were so quick to jump at Halle for speaking out when I felt she was totally justified. I took it as her trying to take her character more seriously and not just a background piece. She did have more to do in the second movie and they gave her a little bit of development with Nightcrawler, but it didn't really carry over much. It would've been great if there was a goodbye scene with him and her.

[JP]

I'm sure there would have been a scene providing he left.
D:

[TNC9852002]

I guess they just wanted to get to the last shot of Alkali Lake while it was still fresh in everyone's mind...

[JP]

My point is, he never left. As in, he should have been in X3.
D:

[jaymes_e06]

Yep. I'm with this guy^