how to fix wolverines character

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

Well as many people have commented, Wolverine is popular BECAUSE he is not the MAIN guy. That's the point they missed. We love him because he ain't the leader and he is an outsider and not your regular hero where the spotlight is on him. In the films, they were consciously trying so hard to make him the cool character and everyone service him. I mean, Cyclops and Storm were just pupperts in those films.

Yes, blame Singer and his writers. He's the damn director.

How can you not be the main guy when you star in a dozen different comic books?

[Project862006]

Originally Posted by truth

Well as many people have commented, Wolverine is popular BECAUSE he is not the MAIN guy. That's the point they missed. We love him because he ain't the leader and he is an outsider and not your regular hero where the spotlight is on him. In the films, they were consciously trying so hard to make him the cool character and everyone service him. I mean, Cyclops and Storm were just pupperts in those films.

Yes, blame Singer and his writers. He's the damn director.

still does'nt get it lol

[truth]

This is actually really simple.

Cyclops is the leader of the X-men and Storm is second-in-command. In ANY of the films, did it ever feel like Cyclops or Storm could lead ANYTHING? No. That's where the script and director messed up.

Wolverine stars in his own comics not becuase he is the main guy, but because people loved the character so much and how different he was.

It's really quite easy to grasp. For some reason, and this is the big problem I have with "fanboys", you seem to just go with the crowd and accept something is good because it is deemed good by critics and so forth. If you think about it, the Xmen films were a failure in properly depicting the comics. On top of that, in their own right they were not very good films. Solid, acceptable...but not very good.

[Project862006]

lolol

X2 is easily top5 comic films i like it better than all of marvel's films

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

This is actually really simple.

Cyclops is the leader of the X-men and Storm is second-in-command. In ANY of the films, did it ever feel like Cyclops or Storm could lead ANYTHING? No. That's where the script and director messed up.

Wolverine stars in his own comics not becuase he is the main guy, but because people loved the character so much and how different he was.

It's really quite easy to grasp. For some reason, and this is the big problem I have with "fanboys", you seem to just go with the crowd and accept something is good because it is deemed good by critics and so forth. If you think about it, the Xmen films were a failure in properly depicting the comics. On top of that, in their own right they were not very good films. Solid, acceptable...but not very good.

That's what makes me laugh the most...because I disagree with you...I am a FANBOY....I am the farthest thing from your interpretation of the word here on the Hype. I constantly talk everywhere on the Hype about how people should not just follow the crowd but have thier own ideas about things. I don't FOLLOW the crowd on anything, I disagree with most popular points, and if I agree with a popular idea...believe me, it's not because everyone else likes it (I'm actually surprised when I like what most of the posters here like)....so calling me a bandwaggoning fanboys makes me laugh.

[truth]

????? Top 5?

So let's see...

In the same league as Batman, Superman, Begins, Sin City, Blade, Superman 2?

Don't think so

[truth]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

That's what makes me laugh the most...because I disagree with you...I am a FANBOY....I am the farthest thing from your interpretation of the word here on the Hype. I constantly talk everywhere on the Hype about how people should not just follow the crowd but have thier own ideas about things. I don't FOLLOW the crowd on anything, I disagree with most popular points, and if I agree with a popular idea...believe me, it's not because everyone else likes it (I'm actually surprised when I like what most of the posters here like)....so calling me a bandwaggoning fanboys makes me laugh.

Then this is not directed at you, but there are a large group of people at Comic-Con who falsely represent the fans that really care about this stuff. That's the major problem I have.
Not once have I heard that Jackman was amazing or anything from X-men has been amazing. Blame it on the script. I blame the whole boil of wax (right terms?) Acting, directing, script, makeup-artist.

Surely, we ought to be championing an AMAZING X-men film. Surely.

Will we get that with a sequel?

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

????? Top 5?

So let's see...

In the same league as Batman, Superman, Begins, Sin City, Blade, Superman 2?

Don't think so

That's called...different strokes for different folks. Different people have different opinions....it's a wonderful world we live in.

[Project862006]

blade WTF

done with you lol

[Infinity9999x]

Originally Posted by truth

Well as many people have commented, Wolverine is popular BECAUSE he is not the MAIN guy. That's the point they missed. We love him because he ain't the leader and he is an outsider and not your regular hero where the spotlight is on him. In the films, they were consciously trying so hard to make him the cool character and everyone service him. I mean, Cyclops and Storm were just pupperts in those films.

Yes, blame Singer and his writers. He's the damn director.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "Main guy." No, Wolverine has never been the leader type, but he has, for a long time in the comics, been one of the most prominent characters, and often times has more solo books about him out then actual X-men titles. So the Wolverine-centric traits of the X-men is indeed something that started in the comics (I know, because people have been complaining about it for a while, yet people still seem to buy his books).

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

but there are a large group of people at Comic-Con who falsely represent the fans that really care about this stuff. That's the major problem I have.

Actually...what it sounds like you are saying is....there is a large group of fans who like the movies and how they are done....and there is a large group of fans who don't like the movies and what they have done. Both groups care about the characters...but have different interpretations and expectations of them.

Originally Posted by truth

Not once have I heard that Jackman was amazing or anything from X-men has been amazing.

That very statement is amazing. Because I myself have heard many people say that Jackman and the movies were amazing.

Originally Posted by truth

Blame it on the script. I blame the whole boil of wax (right terms?) Acting, directing, script, makeup-artist.

The actual term is BALL OF WAX. You blame them all for what you see as a failure. Others praise them all for what they see as a success.

Originally Posted by truth

Surely, we ought to be championing an AMAZING X-men film. Surely.

I have spoke on this before. I acknowledged that the makers of the XMEN movie had a choice to make.

Choice one - follow the books continuity fromm 45+ years ago and start at the very beginning with Prof X, Marvel Girl, Cyclops, Angel, and a non hairy/non beast looking Beast....and endure the complaints of where's Wolverine, why isn't Beast hairy, why are they calling Jean Marvel Girl and why is she so powerless from the young fans who know nothing of the past.

or

Choice two - pull in bits and pieces from throughout the 45+ years of continuity and feature the current popular characters and storylines....and endure the complaints they are getting.

Not an easy choice...but I can understand thier going with Choice B.

As a side note....I personally grew up reading the books of Choice A (I started reading comics in the mid 60's, and stopped reading them regularily in the mid 80's)...I would love to see a movie based upon these books...but then most of the things I would love to see movies based upon would not interest most of the teens around here.

Originally Posted by truth

Will we get that with a sequel?

Will we get a movie based upon the original XMEN series with a sequel...well, if it's a sequel then it can't be based upon them...so the answer is no.

[ALittlePush]

Originally Posted by truth

Makeup and effects can do wonderful things to make Keaton and Sinise not look TOO old, but without them just plainly looking CG.

Can I ask why Kiefer would not have been right for the part?

Why would Gary, a man that can do ANYTHING, not have been right for this part?

All those actors have put in amazing, CLASSIC performances, all before X1. Something that Hugh hasn't done.

It's not the age factor as such for Keaton and Sinise. Like you said, they could be made to look younger, however, the keyword in your post is that they could be made to "not look TOO old", i.e you're suggesting they would have looked old for the role without makeup and effects. With the budget constraints on X1, do you really think they would have wasted money on casting an older actor, just to make him look younger in every scene he's in, when it would just be cheaper and easier to cast a younger actor for the part. It's not just the age though, it's the physical aspect of the role and the prospect of more sequels. Same with Oldman, can you seriously imagine them throwing themselves around in the Wolverine/Deathstryke fight in X2.

As for Kiefer Sutherland, he has a very distinctive voice and is quite softly spoken. Nothing about him screams Wolverine. It's hard to explain but he just wouldn't be right for Wolverine. Could he play a part in an X-Men film? sure, but could he play Wolverine? No.

Don't get me wrong, they are all good actors and Sutherland is one of my favourites, however, none of them would be right for Wolverine.

Jackman, for me, is Wolverine. So he's tall, so what?

[truth]

I really have a problem with people saying Hugh Jackman IS Wolverine.

All we've had his him, so there is nothing else to compare him to.

We can now say that Keaton IS Batman or Reeve IS Superman because other actors have come and have not surpassed them in those roles.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

I really have a problem with people saying Hugh Jackman IS Wolverine.

I think your main problem is Hugh Jackman.....not what others call him.

Originally Posted by truth

All we've had his him, so there is nothing else to compare him to.

Partly true...but we have had only one person play Wonder Woman too....and it's hard to picture anyone but Lynda Carter in the role. It's not really that there is no one to compare to her...but that she was perfect for the role.

Originally Posted by truth

We can now say that Keaton IS Batman or Reeve IS Superman because other actors have come and have not surpassed them in those roles.

See...that's the thing about opinions....you feel no one has surpassed Keaton, others don't feel the same way.

[Ziggyman]

Need less moping and more badass-ery...

[truth]

The main problem with this Wolverine franchise and part 2 is that Mister Hugh has too much creative control. I am now hearing as a rumor that he wants Aranofsky in to direct. It's he like he OWNS the franchise. You know why he can think that way? The airheads at comic-con that go ga-ga over him when he arrives there.
It's like danoyse's comments of how "hot" he is. You see, we should be talking about the actor of Wolvering putting in a great acting performance....not how "hot" he is.

Sorry guys, Hugh is wrong for the role but more importantly, his involvement in all aspects will not allow the franchise to flourish. A director coming in will not do HIS own full vision

[GuestStar2004]

making money comes before getting the character right, thats how FOX thinks, and what does that mean? show off hugh as being a sex symbol, playing on the character as a good guy hero

as for singer... well technically he to blame for wolverine being the main spotlight but i think he did it for proberly the right reasons at the time, x1 introducing us to the xmen, x2 his origin which hinted in x1, but he did an amazing cliff hanger for jean gray so its a shame that the mo he was off the project they started the wolverine has to be the main character... oh ms berry wants more screen time lets write that in also, and introduce loads of other characters just so we can see them

as for wolverines hieight? its not important if the character is written right then no one would care

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by truth

The main problem with this Wolverine franchise and part 2 is that Mister Hugh has too much creative control. I am now hearing as a rumor that he wants Aranofsky in to direct. It's he like he OWNS the franchise. You know why he can think that way? The airheads at comic-con that go ga-ga over him when he arrives there.
It's like danoyse's comments of how "hot" he is. You see, we should be talking about the actor of Wolvering putting in a great acting performance....not how "hot" he is.

Sorry guys, Hugh is wrong for the role but more importantly, his involvement in all aspects will not allow the franchise to flourish. A director coming in will not do HIS own full vision

Oh, so now everyone who disagrees with you is an airhead? Please.

We don't know how much creative control he had - and he certainly didn't have it when he was cast, seeing as how he was a late replacement for Dougray Scott and the movie had already started filming when he got that part. He didn't have creative control over X2, and yes, he was a producer on X3 and XMO, but he didn't write those scripts and we really don't know what kind of input we had. Remember there were also stories of Fox briefly firing Gavin Hood and repainting sets and demanding the movie be more kid-friendly.

And no, I don't think Hugh should have creative control over the character and I think a sequel should go forward with a director who knows the material, understands the character and has experience with action films. Something the last director didn't have. I'd like it to get the hell away from Fox, too...but unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

I'm not sure about Aronofsky as the director of Wolverine sequel because he's never done a film like this before, but he got one hell of a criminally underlooked performance out of Hugh in The Fountain. So the prospect of him directing him as Wolverine is intriguing at the very least.

And I don't care if my thinking Hugh as Wolverine is hot makes you mad. In fact, I'll make you even madder and say he is damn hot. And I thought he gave a great performance as Wolverine - better in the first two movies, when the scripts were better, but he's definitely one of my favorite superhero movie performances of the last 10 years.

You don't like Hugh as Wolverine, that's fine. If you're opinion and you're entitled to it. Just like I'm entitled to mine. It's a wonderful world we live in.

[Doctor Jones]

Aronofsky directing Hugh as Wolverine is a dream come true.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

The main problem with this Wolverine franchise and part 2 is that Mister Hugh has too much creative control. I am now hearing as a rumor that he wants Aranofsky in to direct.

Your opinion. Other people don't agree. Aronofsky is a good director...that could be interesting.

Originally Posted by truth

It's he like he OWNS the franchise. You know why he can think that way?The airheads at comic-con that go ga-ga over him when he arrives there.

So...his fans are airheads. Nice. You're really racking up the offensive comments towards others.

Originally Posted by truth

It's like danoyse's comments of how "hot" he is. You see, we should be talking about the actor of Wolvering putting in a great acting performance....not how "hot" he is.

Why can't she talk about how hot he is? In every forum at the HYpe the boys talk about how hot any woman is. Why is she not allowed to do the same with the male actors?

Originally Posted by truth

Sorry guys, Hugh is wrong for the role but more importantly, his involvement in all aspects will not allow the franchise to flourish.

Again...there are many who disagree with you.

Originally Posted by truth

A director coming in will not do HIS own full vision

I'd say that depends on the director and FOX studios.

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jones

Aronofsky directing Hugh as Wolverine is a dream come true.

I love The Fountain...I'm actually hoping he does this one....although he probably won't.

[truth]

I've got my fingers crossed for Aranofsky doing Batman.

I'm thinking that Cronenberg would handle the dramatic aspects of Wolverine a lot better than Darren. He would understand the character. But again, the actor needs to be changed.


I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone, if I was, I apologise. It's just quite annoying how the media deem...THOSE...people at comic-con as being the fan community. So if they like it, then it's okay. Some of us here on forums like this get looked over while others just don't even bother and just wait until it's done right.

All I'm saying is, you will be suprised by how many people really don't like where all this is going. I'm sure if they brought in an actor with the right height, right look and acting-chops...A LOT of people will be saying how they finally got Wolverine right.

All we need is to have a look at the other side of the fence.

[danoyse]

Originally Posted by truth

I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone, if I was, I apologise. It's just quite annoying how the media deem...THOSE...people at comic-con as being the fan community. So if they like it, then it's okay. Some of us here on forums like this get looked over while others just don't even bother and just wait until it's done right.

You do realize a lot of people here attend Comic Con, right? They're not random people brought in off the street.

All I'm saying is, you will be suprised by how many people really don't like where all this is going. I'm sure if they brought in an actor with the right height, right look and acting-chops...A LOT of people will be saying how they finally got Wolverine right.

All we need is to have a look at the other side of the fence.

I wouldn't be surprised. We have a whole X-Men forum where people give their different opinions, which we're all entitled to. You should stop trying to make ridiculous assumptions about everyone who disagrees with you.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by truth

I've got my fingers crossed for Aranofsky doing Batman.

I'm thinking that Cronenberg would handle the dramatic aspects of Wolverine a lot better than Darren. He would understand the character. But again, the actor needs to be changed.


I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone, if I was, I apologise. It's just quite annoying how the media deem...THOSE...people at comic-con as being the fan community. So if they like it, then it's okay. Some of us here on forums like this get looked over while others just don't even bother and just wait until it's done right.

All I'm saying is, you will be suprised by how many people really don't like where all this is going. I'm sure if they brought in an actor with the right height, right look and acting-chops...A LOT of people will be saying how they finally got Wolverine right.

All we need is to have a look at the other side of the fence.

Have you spent any time actually reading anything here besides this thread? Many of our posters attended SDCC...many attend lots of cons....I attend cons.....there are threads of all types here complaining or praising every concievable aspect of these or any comic based films.

[C. Lee]

Looks like I need to type faster and stop playing princesses and Batman with my daughter between my posts...danoyse keeps saying stuff before me.