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View Poll Results: What did the super soldier serum give Steve Rogers?
Peak human physical condition 11 28.21%
Superhuman strength 28 71.79%
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:18 PM   #1
XtremelyBaneful
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Default What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in MCU?

I was thinking about the best place to write this, technically it belongs in the Captain America world section but there never seems much activity there, but I think this subject provokes a serious question for the MCU.

I know it's called super soldier serum but it is of my understanding that 616 captain america is of peak human physical condition, but if that's how he is in the MCU, it gives me the impression that he's overpowered. I know the MCU also bases some of its stuff on the ultimate comics and that cap is superhuman there, and even if he is superhuman, then again, I feel that that is making him overpowered.

In cap1, he fought and outdid several trained killers and soldiers which makes sense, fought toe to toe with red skull which makes sense because there's no indication that he was supposed to have superhuman strength

In av1 when he was fighting loki, he was able to deal some damage but could not really hold his own. and in 616, loki has superhuman strength*

In cap2, he's able to throw his shield from sitting on his bike with enough inertia that it was able to the same distance as if he threw it with a full force, and kick a guy off of a boat like even a most-fit human couldn't do. In his first fight with the winter soldier at first it seemed like he was evenly matched but still had the upper hand - but 616 winter soldier's arm is supposed to house superhuman strength. then in their second fight it seemed most of the time that cap easily had the upperhand, overpowering the winter soldier and I originally thought maybe the recalibration of the winter soldier's mental programming just made him sort of physically weaker, but when I brought up the discussion on facebook everybody just said cap was a stronger/better fighter, but I don't really like that answer because it does not make the winter soldier seem like much of a formidable opponent, in that case. and again, it makes captain america overpowered, in my opinion.

I didn't really like av2 and besides the foreign language bootleg version online I saw it once at the theater and it looked like during the fight with ultron on top of the truck, cap was able to hold his own - but 616 ultron is also supposed to house superhuman strength, so if cap was able to hold his own against ultron (or at least deal more damage) than why couldn't he with loki?

he challenged iron man to some sparring in av1 and next year they're actually going to fight but I don't know how he's supposed to stand a chance because iron man's armor gives him superhuman ability as well...I guess the shield will go a long way. I don't know how the fight ended in the comics.

bottom line is, in my opinion, if captain america is at peak human physical condition, then in several instances he comes off as overpowered in the MCU and if he is superhuman, then again, in my opinion he's an overpowered superhero. not every main character has to have superhuman strength; I originally thought his capabilities physically would be similar to that of daredevil but if he is superhuman, then he's stronger than daredevil.

*I know superhuman strength goes a long way, though. for instance, drax is superhuman but was easily outdone by ronan, who was obviously much stronger. the point here is that I thought cap was not supposed to be superhuman at all.

What do you think?

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Old 09-13-2015, 04:45 PM   #2
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

Cap is definitely superhuman



Look the way he can so easily pick up humans and throw them away, also the power of his kicks is insane!

The reason he kinda had a chance against Ultron is because he was more capable post Avengers due to his training with SHIELD, and because Ultron was also protecting the cradle. Besides Cap was barely even keeping up with that fight anyway.

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Old 09-13-2015, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

BW is peak female. Daredevil is about peak male. Cap is far superior in MCU. He has strength and durability that far exceeds his size and weight. It is superhuman.


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Old 09-13-2015, 09:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

The key answer is "MCU Cap is not peak human, and never was meant to be." Beyond that, he's basically as strong, fast, and tough, as shown on screen. I'd benchmark him as:

1. Strong enough to lift a couple tons, though not without effort, and he doesn't have the ability to ignore physics like a lot of the brickier characters can ( vis a vis leverage, strength of handhold, etc )

2. Durable enough to match his strength, albeit with *relatively* penetrable skin. He's incredibly resilient and heals fast beyond that, so even where shooting or stabbing him actually draws blood, it doesn't necessarily do much lasting harm.

3. Faster than peak human, maybe, but probably not bullet-time. Its a marginal advantage, though, compared with his strength or durability. This one is, as always, the toughest to benchmark, because its hard to distinguish between speed and skill.

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Old 09-13-2015, 10:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
The key answer is "MCU Cap is not peak human, and never was meant to be." Beyond that, he's basically as strong, fast, and tough, as shown on screen. I'd benchmark him as:

1. Strong enough to lift a couple tons, though not without effort, and he doesn't have the ability to ignore physics like a lot of the brickier characters can ( vis a vis leverage, strength of handhold, etc )

2. Durable enough to match his strength, albeit with *relatively* penetrable skin. He's incredibly resilient and heals fast beyond that, so even where shooting or stabbing him actually draws blood, it doesn't necessarily do much lasting harm.

3. Faster than peak human, maybe, but probably not bullet-time. Its a marginal advantage, though, compared with his strength or durability. This one is, as always, the toughest to benchmark, because its hard to distinguish between speed and skill.
He took a shot to gut by one of those Chitauri weapons and jumping out of a plane into the ocean would normally break multiple bones at the height he was so is durability and semi-accelerated healing is on the list.

The only thing that hasn't been displayed is agility other than jumping over a 10ft gate. Sure he's not par with Spider-man but Blonski showed more acrobatics in the Incredible Hulk with Cap's blood/serum then Cap has in any film.


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Old 09-13-2015, 10:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

Yeah, they definitely have Cap in the Super Human category. The question is, how far do those super human abilities go? I don't know about him lifting two tons even with great effort but yeah, he's stronger than probably 2 or three men combined and he is very durable, surviving things even very fit soldiers and athletes of the normal variety probably wouldn't.

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Old 09-13-2015, 11:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

Like most comics, there have been developments over the years that build on the original intentions of the creators. What the comics and the MCU have done over time likely differs in part in comparison to Simon and Kirby originally intended, if they even created strict parameters in 1941.

Without getting too verbose, the SSS and Vita-Ray treatment gave Rogers abilities that are at the *theoretical* limits of human strength, speed, and durability. In the comics, I've seen him doing 1100lb raw reps on the bench and run a mile in 1 min, 13 seconds. Both of those far exceed the actual records and they were achieved by people with vastly different body types. Plus, he survived in suspended animation, which is not scientifically possible (for now, at least) for a human being.

Add all of that up and it's easy to see that he's superhuman, even if "peak" might have been the original buzzword.

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Old 09-13-2015, 11:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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Originally Posted by Lantern Venom View Post
Like most comics, there have been developments over the years that build on the original intentions of the creators. What the comics and the MCU have done over time likely differs in part in comparison to Simon and Kirby originally intended, if they even created strict parameters in 1941.

Without getting too verbose, the SSS and Vita-Ray treatment gave Rogers abilities that are at the *theoretical* limits of human strength, speed, and durability. In the comics, I've seen him doing 1100lb raw reps on the bench and run a mile in 1 min, 13 seconds. Both of those far exceed the actual records and they were achieved by people with vastly different body types. Plus, he survived in suspended animation, which is not scientifically possible (for now, at least) for a human being.

Add all of that up and it's easy to see that he's superhuman, even if "peak" might have been the original buzzword.
Yeah, in comics it's unscientific as hell. But... I think I always viewed it as this... Human beings are capable of amazing physical feats, in terms of outcomes (breaking concrete blocks, parkour artists that jump incredible chasms ect.) or endurance (free climbing a shear rock wall, marathons through terrible terrain and so on). My take was Cap had, even without training, the inate physical ability to performs such feats. The SSS was about producing strong soldiers with lightning reflexes and the endurance to march all day and fight all night. ADD IN training and honing those attributes and you have someone that is incredibly formidable. On top of that mix in experience and battle testing. These were what made Cap the incredible hero that doesnt' think twice about throwing himself into action regardless of the odds when it's necessary.

MCU Cap while similar, does seem to be presented in a way that is beyond simply the upper limits of human ability. That motorcycle stunt in AOU in the opening is... That's straight up SUPER human. The question is... How far into super human strength speed, reaction time/reflexes and durability does MCU Cap go? As was pointed out we've really yet to see his upper limits but he's been shown to survive things and do such feats that are not just of an incredibly fit human being.

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Old 09-13-2015, 11:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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MCU Cap while similar, does seem to be presented in a way that is beyond simply the upper limits of human ability. That motorcycle stunt in AOU in the opening is... That's straight up SUPER human. The question is... How far into super human strength speed, reaction time/reflexes and durability does MCU Cap go? As was pointed out we've really yet to see his upper limits but he's been shown to survive things and do such feats that are not just of an incredibly fit human being.
Yes, that move alone exceeds the limits of human ability. Motorcycles weigh between 800-1000 lbs, much heavier than even the strongest human can military press, which was 535lbs, the last time I checked. So he not only had the agility to execute the flip, but the flexibility to control the motorcycle as he brought it over his head, then throw it a distance that even the strongest powerlifter couldn't do. That's far beyond 'peak".

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Old 09-15-2015, 07:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

As another way to look at it, I look at movie Cap as being a little less strong than Spider-man will probably end up being, a lot less fast, but at least as tough and maybe tougher*. He's basically in the same power tier as Spider-man, overall.

*I, admittedly, tend to think Spider-man's raw durability gets overrated, and that he's *not* as tough as he is strong. He just looks it a lot of the time because he's so agile and flexible that he virtually never takes a solid hit. On those occasions when he takes a hit he can't roll with or dodge ( like a really, really unlucky bullet )? He's usually hindered by it a lot more than movie Cap is, who treats most bullet wounds as something he can walk off.

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Old 09-15-2015, 08:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

If surviving in ice without aging for 70 years is just peak physical condition, then, yeah, go with that.

He didn't age, he built 100 pounds of muscle in 12 seconds, survives plane crashes, fights aliens, and is the one guy that just about everyone in the Marvel Universe respects. Guys with the ability to rip him and half are like "yes, sir!" around him.

Super powered or peak human physical condition is kind of irrelevant. Steve Rogers' personality makes Cap a hero and the super solider serum makes him badass. That's all that matters.

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Old 09-15-2015, 08:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

Peak human means the maximum theoretical limits of the human body. It's been theorized that humans could possibly run up to 40 mph. The fastest man alive is Usain Bolt. His max speed was clocked at 28 mph. He's not even close. People flipped out after they saw Cap throw a motorcycle over his head. Motorcycles weigh somewhere between 500-1000 pounds. It's not outside the realm of possibility that such a feat is possible utilizing only peak human strength.

http://www.livescience.com/8039-huma...ph-theory.html

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Old 09-15-2015, 09:24 PM   #13
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

But in TFA, he held up a motorcycle with three women on it over his head and has a metabolism faster than the average human. That's superhuman.

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Old 09-15-2015, 09:57 PM   #14
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

guarantee he's done more ridiculous stuff in 616 than in the movies. Heck he beat up Spider-Man, who is like minimum 10x stronger/faster/durable

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Old 09-15-2015, 10:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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Peak human means the maximum theoretical limits of the human body. It's been theorized that humans could possibly run up to 40 mph. The fastest man alive is Usain Bolt. His max speed was clocked at 28 mph. He's not even close. People flipped out after they saw Cap throw a motorcycle over his head. Motorcycles weigh somewhere between 500-1000 pounds. It's not outside the realm of possibility that such a feat is possible utilizing only peak human strength.

http://www.livescience.com/8039-huma...ph-theory.html
We're not talking about a simple military press, of which several men have already exceeded 500lbs. He brought it over his head in split second from a position that even a professional powerlifter wouldn't attempt due the possibility of severe injury. Then he threw it approximately 25 yards, which is also out of the realm of human possibility.

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Old 09-15-2015, 10:42 PM   #16
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guarantee he's done more ridiculous stuff in 616 than in the movies. Heck he beat up Spider-Man, who is like minimum 10x stronger/faster/durable
Spider-man's strength level has varied greatly from writer-to-writer and in various media adaptations as well.

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Old 09-16-2015, 03:44 AM   #17
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In my personal opinion, Captain's biggest limitations are two fold. He cannot flight at all. Even Hulk can jump high enough to appear to flight. This could change if they made Sam Wilson the next Captain America He has no effective projectile weapon. Yes he has the shield but it can be stopped as shown by the Winter Solider or deflected.

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Old 09-16-2015, 06:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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If surviving in ice without aging for 70 years is just peak physical condition, then, yeah, go with that.

He didn't age, he built 100 pounds of muscle in 12 seconds, survives plane crashes, fights aliens, and is the one guy that just about everyone in the Marvel Universe respects. Guys with the ability to rip him and half are like "yes, sir!" around him.

Super powered or peak human physical condition is kind of irrelevant. Steve Rogers' personality makes Cap a hero and the super solider serum makes him badass. That's all that matters.

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Old 09-16-2015, 11:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

You know those stories of people who have such adrenaline rushes that they are able to lift cars and stuff? Maybe Cap's peak human abilities, INCLUDES that. Think of how easy it would be, if someone were always that strong, to throw a human being across a room. Throw a motorcycle? He is just as allergic to bullets as other humans. (Maybe a bit more durable.) He has the ability to perfectly calculate the projection of his shield, which is not that far when considering the things some people are able to do... (just watch Stan Lee's History Channel Super-Heroes, it's on Netflix, people with the ability to bend hammers in half, others with the ability to calculate any math problem within a split second, crazy stuff) If cap's super enhanced abilities allows him to do just SOME of the things that humans can do, then I doubt his abilities can be that absurd when you realize that there are some things real life people can do that Cap couldn't.

HOWEVER, there are a couple of things that seem to suggest that he has some type of super-human abilities. For instance, surviving on ice, and not aging at all. Surviving that plane crash with no major injuries then surviving in ice really seem inconsistent with Cap's abilities to be honest. A bullet hurts him but a plane crash leaves him with no serious injuries? I would say with this evidence it almost seems most likely that ice, or even just the ice/water he landed in, could have some extra characteristics, possibly regeneration or the water/ice being 'softer'. This seems more like a crazy theory, than it sound's like the writers actually intended this. I think it honestly seems more like a plot hole. (But one from the comics)

I would say that he probably has enhanced strength, durability and precision, but somehow has super-human ability to not age, and also in some strange circumstances has super-human durability.

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Old 09-17-2015, 12:54 AM   #20
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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and also in some strange circumstances has super-human durability.
That's definitely been established in the MCU. Even considering vibranium's properties, the fall from the elevator in TWS would have knocked out and likely crippled even an Olympian. Cap took a bullet to the abdomen from Bucky but recovered by the end of the movie. He took two energy blasts to the torso from Ultron. Although his new uniform has some enhanced durability of its own, there were several instances in their one-on-one encounter where Ultron would have knocked out or severely debilitated even a very fit human.

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Old 09-17-2015, 09:17 AM   #21
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

MCU Steve seems to be a closer to Ult Steve in terms of physical ability who I think enters Superhuman levels rather than bordering them. But even if he's not "super human" he's not simply a very fit human or even an Olympic caliber human. His peak is rather the peak of evolution for a human, not just of today and it covers strength, durability, stamina, speed, reflexes etc. He's even been mentally enhanced.

So where Bolt can run up to 28 miles in a 100 meter dash, Steve can not only surpass that (40-75mph depending on of it's 616 or Ult Cap) he can do that for miles and not meters.

In the MCU, we see him chase down a car in TFA and in the opening of TWS we see him jogging past Sam at least 3 times during a 2.2m running loop around the Tidal Basin.

In TWS after he is stabbed in the shoulder, shot in the thigh and abdomen he is still able to lift what has to be a multi ton beam off of Bucky that Bucky cannot move.

In terms of damage and healing - his bones are denser (why he looks lighter than he is), his metabolism is faster, he regenerates quickly so that not only did he not age and his cells not get damaged by the freezing the serum heeled any injuries while he was on ice.

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Old 09-17-2015, 09:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in MCU?
He's still a virgin

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Old 09-17-2015, 10:16 AM   #23
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:10 PM   #24
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guarantee he's done more ridiculous stuff in 616 than in the movies. Heck he beat up Spider-Man, who is like minimum 10x stronger/faster/durable
Yes, and in comics he's been in literally thousands of issues since he was created. When you have that big a data set, you can find some truly spectacular outliers. His *consistent* performance, by contrast, is. . . at the peak of normal human capacity, consistent with a bunch of other characters. Which is to say, nowhere near as good as the movie version.

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Old 09-18-2015, 03:52 AM   #25
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Default Re: What is Captain America's limitations compared to the rest of the characters in M

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He's still a virgin
What a Great idea!
Anyways, Cap is definitely a superhuman!

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