The Batman (1966) Appreciation Thread

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Joker

theMan-Bat, do you know if there's any truth in the rumor that Burgess Meredith was going to play Penguin's dad in Batman Returns, but couldn't end up doing it because he was ill at the time?

I've never even heard of that rumor before. I don't believe that rumor is true. No, I believe Tim Burton had originally intended to cast Paul Reubens and Diane Salinger from Pee-wee's Big Adventure as Oswald's parents. Judging from Tim Burton's own Batman Returns commentary, he picked personal favorite actors of his preference for those roles. He said, "Like anything you make, you like to make it personal, so it was fun to work with Paul and Diane. It's obviously a small little role, but as the Penguin's parents it was important, and that (the doctor) was Stuart Lancaster who was in Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, who was also in Edward Scissorhands in a small part. So, you know, I like to make things as personal as possible."
So it's pretty clear that Tim Burton had gotten who he wanted. Stuart Lancaster was cast as the doctor just because Tim Burton's a fan of Russ Meyer's Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! During his Edward Scissorhands commentary Tim Burton said, "This guy is Stuart Lancaster, he's the star of Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, which is a great movie. He use to be one of Russ Meyer's actors in all of his films."

It's quite possibly the most faithful adaption of Batman ever put on screen. The only other adaption to give it a run for it's money in terms of faithfulness would be BTAS.

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

And yes, this is without a doubt THE most faithful adaptation of Batman from comics to the screen. With only a few liberties taken.

The Batman: Year One movie is the most faithful adaptation of Batman comics to the screen released to date, and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 and Part 2 looks to be just as faithful.

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

The Batman: Year One movie is the most faithful adaptation of Batman comics to the screen released to date, and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 and Part 2 looks to be just as faithful.

Not really... they just took it panel for panel. It's not that impressive. A point that got it some negative reviews. Thank god for Bryan Cranston because that movie would have been a complete dud without him.

The Adam West TV show captured the mood, vibe, colours and sensibilities of the Batman comics form the 50's/60's and put it on screen.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

I've never even heard of that rumor before. I don't believe that rumor is true. No, I believe Tim Burton had originally intended to cast Paul Reubens and Diane Salinger from Pee-wee's Big Adventure as Oswald's parents. Judging from Tim Burton's own Batman Returns commentary, he picked personal favorite actors of his preference for those roles. He said, "Like anything you make, you like to make it personal, so it was fun to work with Paul and Diane. It's obviously a small little role, but as the Penguin's parents it was important, and that (the doctor) was Stuart Lancaster who was in Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, who was also in Edward Scissorhands in a small part. So, you know, I like to make things as personal as possible."
So it's pretty clear that Tim Burton had gotten who he wanted. Stuart Lancaster was cast as the doctor just because Tim Burton's a fan of Russ Meyer's Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! During his Edward Scissorhands commentary Tim Burton said, "This guy is Stuart Lancaster, he's the star of Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, which is a great movie. He use to be one of Russ Meyer's actors in all of his films."

Fair enough. What you say makes perfect sense. I just thought he may have chosen those actors after Burgess became unavailable for the part.

I don't know where this rumor started, but it's one that springs up every now and then regarding the movie. The fanboy in me would have loved to have seen the immortal Burgess Meredith play Oswald's father in this. It would have been deja vu for him don a tux, monocle and cigarette holder again That's what I liked about it. Paul Reubens was dressed a lot like classic Burgess Penguin.

The Batman: Year One movie is the most faithful adaptation of Batman comics to the screen released to date, and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1 and Part 2 looks to be just as faithful.

In terms of a panel for panel recreation, you're right. What I was referring to was more in terms of taking an era of the Batman comics and translating it so perfectly to the screen. Year One took one story, and did it well. This show took an entire era, and so many characters, and transplanted them so well from page to screen.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

Not really... they just took it panel for panel. It's not that impressive. A point that got it some negative reviews. Thank god for Bryan Cranston because that movie would have been a complete dud without him.

The Batman: Year One movie really is the most faithful adaptation of Batman comics to the screen released to date, whether you personally enjoy it is irrelevant to the fact of it's faithfulness. Translating comics to the screen panel by panel, using the actually dialogue from the comics word for word is being extremely faithful to the source material.

Originally Posted by The Joker

In terms of a panel for panel recreation, you're right. What I was referring to was more in terms of taking an era of the Batman comics and translating it so perfectly to the screen. Year One took one story, and did it well. This show took an entire era, and so many characters, and transplanted them so well from page to screen.

Originally Posted by Pfeiffer-Pfan

The Adam West TV show captured the mood, vibe, colours and sensibilities of the Batman comics form the 50's/60's and put it on screen.

The Adam West show was not as faithful to the Silver Age Batman comics as the Batman: Year One movie is to the Batman: Year One comics. Capturing the mood, vibe, colors and sensibilities of Batman comics is not as faithful as also translating actual Batman comic book issues storylines moment by moment, scene by scene, character by character, panel by panel, complete with word for word dialogue from the comics as the Batman: Year One movie does with the Batman: Year One comics which originally appeared in Batman #404 (February, 1987) "Who I Am and How I Came to Be," Batman #405 (March, 1987) "War Is Declared," Batman #406 (April, 1987) "Black Dawn" and Batman #407 (May, 1987) "Friend in Need."

Originally Posted by The Joker

That's what I liked about it. Paul Reubens was dressed a lot like classic Burgess Penguin.

Yeah, Paul Reubens really was dressed like Burgess Meredith's Penguin, complete with bow tie, the tuxedo, the monocle and the long cigarette holder.

[The Joker]

I've found some sources for the Burgess rumor in Returns:

Burgess Meredith, who played the Penguin on the TV series, was asked to play the character's father in the opening of the film but illness prevented him from it. Burton then brought in two of the stars of his feature debut, Pee-wee's Big Adventure (1985), Paul "Pee-wee Herman" Reubens and Diane Salinger, to play the character's parents.

http://www.tcm.com/this-month/articl...n-Returns.html

http://www.squidoo.com/the-penguin

http://www.notstarring.com/actors/meredith-burgess

[Hobgoblin]

Burgess Meredith was a hell of an old man at that time. He would have been 83-84 years old at the time B.R. was filmed. I dont know if a character could have children at that age.


Then again, maybe that would explain Penguin's appearance.

[The Joker]

Even old guys can still have some lead in the pencil

[theMan-Bat]

It seems to me more like casting Burgess Meredith would have been the idea of Warner executives, rather than Tim Burton's plan. I know that Tim Burton was trying to distance his version from the popular satirical TV show. Even the humor in Burton's Batman films is dark humor. Producer Denise De Novi said in Starlog #178 (May, 1992) "The attitude has always been to portray him (the Penguin) as a camp character. Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic."



Although, Burgess Meredith's Penguin also ran for mayor on the TV show, but in a light-hearted comedic way (with no sleazy groping of girls and no disturbing plan to kill children), and with Adam West's Batman running for mayor against him.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[The Joker]

I find it hard to believe they were so anti camp when Penguin drove around in a giant yellow duck vehicle and his master plan at the end involved an adorable army of penguins with candy cane rockets on their backs. All of that was sheer camp. If they were willing to have stuff like that, then casting a considerably older Meredith in a brief non speaking role wouldn't have hurt at all.

Even in the 60's show, Penguin had intentions to "Bleed Gotham City dry" once he became Mayor. It's not the first 60's Batman plot borrowed in Burton's movies. Joker destroying priceless art work in a museum was also done in the 60's show. For a director so adamant to move away from the campy image of the show, he wasn't against using plots from it.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I find it hard to believe they were so anti camp when Penguin drove around in a giant yellow duck vehicle and his master plan at the end involved an adorable army of penguins with candy cane rockets on their backs. All of that was sheer camp.

The suicide bombing penguin army seemed to me like it was intended to be rather disturbing to me for the Penguin to sacrifice his "babies" (as he called them). The duck ride was also part of the Penguin's bird theme, and the duck car ride had been part of an old Gotham World's Fair amusement park, and people would ride the duck car that traveled down to the Arctic World feature (Tim Burton explains this in his Batman Returns commentary). Tim Burton says in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."

Even in the 60's show, Penguin had intentions to "Bleed Gotham City dry" once he became Mayor.

"Bleed dry" is an idiom that means to take someone's money until most or all of it has gone.

It's not the first 60's Batman plot borrowed in Burton's movies. Joker destroying priceless art work in a museum was also done in the 60's show. For a director so adamant to move away from the campy image of the show, he wasn't against using plots from it.

Cesar Romero's Joker also chaotically destroyed paintings on the TV show, but with a light-hearted comedic outcome (with no disturbing defacing of a woman with acid and no plan to deface another woman with acid like Jack Nicholson's sadistic Joker). In the "Pop Goes The Joker" episode, Cesar Romero's Joker defaces paintings in an art gallery with paint-spraying guns. But instead of being horrified at his defacing of art, Cesar Romero's Joker’s defacing is loved as pop art. After more success at an international art competition, Cesar Romero's Joker founds his own art school.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[theMan-Bat]

Here is another interview with Adam West and Burt Ward I've scanned from Comics Scene Spectacular #7 (1992).

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

The suicide bombing penguin army seemed to me like it was intended to be rather disturbing for the Penguin to sacrifice his "babies" (as he called them).

Yeah, and the 60's Batman show had Batman and Robin in some horrific death traps where they'd be boiled in acid, eaten alive by leopards, crocodiles etc, blown to bits, riddled with bullets etc. The outcome would be horrific if they didn't escape but the style in which it was done was pure camp.

The penguin army with their little metal helmets and rockets was total camp.

The duck ride was also part of the Penguin's bird theme, and the little duck car ride had been part of an old Gotham World's Fair amusement park, and people would ride the duck car that traveled down to the Arctic World feature (Tim Burton explains this in his Batman Returns commentary). Tim Burton didn't intend for those things to be interpreted as sheer camp, and didn't see them as sheer camp.

It doesn't matter where it came from or how Tim Burton personally saw it. It WAS campy. He was driving a giant yellow duck around, which even made QUACKING noises on Batman's radar screen lol.

Tim Burton also says in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."

Intentions and results of those intentions are two different things.

"Bleed dry" is an idiom that means to take someone's money until most or all of it has gone.

I know what it means. He also intended to install the Joker and the Riddler in positions of power once he became Mayor. He was going to wreak havoc on Gotham.

The 60's show often had the villains with the most sinister of intentions. Mr. Freeze was going to freeze them all to death several times. It's the execution of it that's campy.

]Cesar Romero's Joker also chaotically destroyed paintings on the TV show, but with a light-hearted comedic outcome (with no disturbing defacing of a woman with acid and no plan to deface another woman with acid like Jack Nicholson's sadistic Joker). In the "Pop Goes The Joker" episode, Cesar Romero's Joker defaces paintings in an art gallery with paint-spraying guns. But instead of being horrified at his defacing of art, Cesar Romero's Joker’s defacing is loved as pop art. After more success at an international art competition, Cesar Romero's Joker founds his own art school.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

I know all of that. You're missing my point. You say Tim Burton wanted to escape the specter of the 60's campy show. Yet in both of his movies he took two silly storylines from the show and used them in his movies. There's no shortage of stories to use as inspiration from the comics, yet he took two from the 60's Batman show.

You see my point. That's why I don't buy Burgess Meredith in a non speaking cameo would have been some kind of campy inclusion that hurt the movie's serious tone or credibility.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

Here is another interview with Adam West and Burt Ward I've scanned from Comics Scene Spectacular #7 (1992).

Yeah, I know they don't consider either of Burton's movies suitable for kids. Ward has said so many times. He dissed that Batman was killing as many people as Joker in Batman '89, and he said he didn't care for Returns because it was grossly too violent:




But that doesn't mean there wasn't campy elements in the movie among the dark violence.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, and the 60's Batman show had Batman and Robin in some horrific death traps where they'd be boiled in acid, eaten alive by leopards, crocodiles etc, blown to bits, riddled with bullets etc. The outcome would be horrific if they didn't escape but the style in which it was done was pure camp.

The penguin army with their little metal helmets and rockets was total camp.

It doesn't matter where it came from or how Tim Burton personally saw it. It WAS campy. He was driving a giant yellow duck around, which even made QUACKING noises on Batman's radar screen lol.

Intentions and results of those intentions are two different things.

I disagree with your opinion of Batman Returns, and Batman Returns was certainly not perceived as pure campy by the general public. If Batman Returns was light and campy like the Adam West TV show then parents wouldn't have complained, the Dove Foundation wouldn't have complained, McDonald's wouldn't have canceled the Batman Happy Meal's prematurely and Warner Brothers wouldn't have replaced Tim Burton with Joel Schumacher in order to lighten up Batman.

I know what it means. He also intended to install the Joker and the Riddler in positions of power once he became Mayor. He was going to wreak havoc on Gotham.

The 60's show often had the villains with the most sinister of intentions. Mr. Freeze was going to freeze them all to death several times. It's the execution of it that's campy.

The villains on the show never killed anybody, nor was there even any blood. Which are reasons why Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns were such surprises to general audiences when there was killings and there was blood.

I know all of that. You're missing my point. You say Tim Burton wanted to escape the specter of the 60's campy show. Yet in both of his movies he took two silly storylines from the show and used them in his movies. There's no shortage of stories to use as inspiration from the comics, yet he took two from the 60's Batman show.

You see my point. That's why I don't buy Burgess Meredith in a non speaking cameo would have been some kind of campy inclusion that hurt the movie's serious tone or credibility.

Tim Burton didn't write the scripts for Batman and Batman Returns. Sam Hamm wrote Batman and Daniel Waters wrote Batman Returns. Was Tim Burton even aware that Burgess Meredith's Penguin also ran for mayor on the TV show and that Cesar Romero's Joker also destroyed paintings on the TV show? Did he see those episodes of the show? Did he even care? We don't know for sure. We do know that Tim Burton didn't make Batman and Batman Returns to be campy like the TV show. Again, producer Denise De Novi said in Starlog #178 (May, 1992) "The attitude has always been to portray him (the Penguin) as a camp character. Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic."
And Tim Burton himself says in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."
Tim Burton was trying to distance his version from the popular satirical TV show, so I don't believe that he intended to cast Burgess Meredith as Oswald's father. Apparently you disagree. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by The Joker

Yeah, I know they don't consider either of Burton's movies suitable for kids.
But that doesn't mean there wasn't campy elements in the movie among the dark violence.

I wasn't even sharing my scans of that interview as some sort of argument. As you already know, I disagree with your opinion of Batman Returns.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

I disagree with your opinion of Batman Returns, and Batman Returns was certainly not perceived as pure campy by the general public. If Batman Returns was light and campy like the Adam West TV show then parents wouldn't have complained, the Dove Foundation wouldn't have complained, McDonald's wouldn't have canceled the Batman Happy Meal's prematurely and Warner Brothers wouldn't have replaced Tim Burton with Joel Schumacher in order to lighten up Batman.

I never called Batman Returns campy. I said it had campy elements in it. I'm well aware of the backlash it had for being too dark and scary for kids. That doesn't mean every single scene in it was a terror experience for kids.

The villains on the show never killed anybody, nor was there even any blood. Which are reasons why Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns were such surprises to general audiences when there was killings and there was blood.

The villains in BTAS never got to kill anyone either. But campy is the last thing they'd be described as.

Tim Burton didn't write the scripts for Batman and Batman Returns. Sam Hamm wrote Batman and Daniel Waters wrote Batman Returns. Was Tim Burton even aware that Burgess Meredith's Penguin also ran for mayor on the TV show and that Cesar Romero's Joker also destroyed paintings on the TV show? Did he see those episodes of the show? Did he even care? We don't know for sure. We do know that Tim Burton didn't make Batman and Batman Returns to be campy like the TV show. Again, producer Denise De Novi said in Starlog #178 (May, 1992) "The attitude has always been to portray him (the Penguin) as a camp character. Tim hates camp, and it shows in his treatment of the Penguin. He's serious, dark and disturbed. He's totally psychotic."
And Tim Burton himself says in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."

If Denise De Novi's words are to be believed, then Hamm and Waters wouldn't have used plots from the 60's TV show in the first place if Burton's opposition to camp was so established. The writers would be keenly aware of what their director wants. Second, with all due respect to Burton, he was living in cloud cuckoo land if he thought stuff like a marching army of penguins or a giant yellow duck car was not camp.

Tim Burton was trying to distance his version from the popular satirical TV show, so I don't believe that he intended to cast Burgess Meredith as Oswald's father. Apparently you disagree. So we will have to agree to disagree.

I never said Burton specifically wanted him. I originally asked you if there was any truth in the rumor that Burgess was up for the part. Maybe you're right and it was WB who wanted Burgess rather than Burton.

But since Burton apparently had full creative freedom on Returns, I doubt Burgess would have even been considered if he was as opposed to any connections to the TV show as you say. Yet all sources say the only reason Burgess didn't do it was because he was ill at the time.

I wasn't even sharing my scans of that interview as some sort of argument. As you already know, I disagree with your opinion of Batman Returns.

I think you misunderstood my opinion of it. A campy movie it is not. It's a dark movie with campy elements in it.

[theMan-Bat]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I never called Batman Returns campy. I said it had campy elements in it. I'm well aware of the backlash it had for being too dark and scary for kids. That doesn't mean every single scene in it was a terror experience for kids.

You called scenes in Batman Returns pure camp. You seem to be equating anything you see as funny as being pure camp. The common definition of campy humor is self-parody, like the TV show this thread is about. We know that Tim Burton was not doing a self-parody, as Tim Burton says himself in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."

The villains in BTAS never got to kill anyone either. But campy is the last thing they'd be described as.

Like Tim Burton, while there was some character driven humor, Bruce Timm also took the characters seriously and, while he did have Adam West voice the Gray Ghost in one episode, Bruce Timm was trying to distance his version from the popular campy TV show. Kevin Conroy explained that, "My only real exposure to Batman was the Adam West TV series. So when I went in to audition for Batman: The Animated Series, I told Bruce Timm that and he said, 'Oh God, no. That’s not at all the direction we’re going. This is based on the original Dark Knight series. This goes back to the Bob Kane tradition. It’s very dramatic. It’s very noir.' And he described to me the whole history of the Batman legend, which I was really completely ignorant of."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=23096
Kevin Conroy: "The only exposure I had to it (Batman) was sort of the campy '70s show that Adam West did, which the director, when Andrea (Romano) was auditioning me for the role, she was like 'No, no, no, that’s not the direction we’re going! Wipe your brain clean of that.'"
http://www.comicbooked.com/exclusive...-comic-booked/

If Denise De Novi's words are to be believed, then Hamm and Waters wouldn't have used plots from the 60's TV show in the first place if Burton's opposition to camp was so established. The writers would be keenly aware of what their director wants. Second, with all due respect to Burton, he was living in cloud cuckoo land if he thought stuff like a marching army of penguins or a giant yellow duck car was not camp.

I'm very much aware that you think so. Here is the full page from Starlog #178 (May, 1992) that I quoted from where Denise De Novi states Tim Burton's view on camp.


Batman Returns producer Denise De Novi would know Tim Burton's view on camp. I have no reason not to believe her. Sam Hamm and Daniel Waters wrote very dark Batman scripts, which was obviously Tim Burton's preference. Jack Nicholson's Joker destroying masterpieces showed the Joker's chaotic nature, making a mockery of art and him only liking pictures of death should tell you that he really was about killing and death, and Danny DeVito's Penguin running for mayor showed the Penguin's conning nature as he plotted to kill Gotham's children. Cesar Romero's Joker having had also defaced paintings on the campy TV show and Burgess Meredith's Penguin having had also ran for mayor on the campy TV show does not mean that Tim Burton was trying to make his films campy. The Joker destroying masterpieces and the Penguin running for mayor are not necessarily campy things in of themselves. What made them campy on the show is how they were played out, as the "Pop Goes The Joker" episode was a campy parody of the popularity of pop art and the "Hizzoner The Penguin" and "Dizzonor the Penguin" episodes was an exaggerated campy parody of two types of political campaigns, one being an over-the-top show (the Burgess Meredith Penguin's campaign) and the other being completely sedated and dull (the Adam West Batman's campaign) with Chief O'Hara falling asleep.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

I never said Burton specifically wanted him. I originally asked you if there was any truth in the rumor that Burgess was up for the part. Maybe you're right and it was WB who wanted Burgess rather than Burton.

But since Burton apparently had full creative freedom on Returns, I doubt Burgess would have even been considered if he was as opposed to any connections to the TV show as you say. Yet all sources say the only reason Burgess didn't do it was because he was ill at the time.

Rumors can be wrong. There was a lot of rumors that Joseph Gordon-Levitt was going to be the Riddler as the main villain in The Dark Knight Rises. I also remember the rumors that Philip Seymour Hoffman was being cast as the Penguin for Nolan's The Dark Knight. I doubt Tim Burton seriously considered Burgess Meredith as Oswald's father in the first place. Again, I believe Tim Burton had originally intended to cast Paul Reubens and Diane Salinger from Pee-wee's Big Adventure as Oswald's parents. Judging from Tim Burton's own Batman Returns commentary, he picked personal favorite actors of his preference for those roles. He said, "Like anything you make, you like to make it personal, so it was fun to work with Paul and Diane. It's obviously a small little role, but as the Penguin's parents it was important, and that (the doctor) was Stuart Lancaster who was in Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, who was also in Edward Scissorhands in a small part. So, you know, I like to make things as personal as possible."
So it's pretty clear to me that Tim Burton had gotten who he wanted. Stuart Lancaster was cast as the doctor just because Tim Burton's a fan of Russ Meyer's Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! During his Edward Scissorhands commentary Tim Burton said, "This guy is Stuart Lancaster, he's the star of Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, which is a great movie. He use to be one of Russ Meyer's actors in all of his films."

I think you misunderstood my opinion of it. A campy movie it is not. It's a dark movie with campy elements in it.

I understood your opinion of Batman Returns. What I'm doing is disagreeing with that opinion. You say it has pure camp elements, and as you know, I disagree. I see Batman Returns as a dark movie with dark humor in it, and I say lets agree to disagree because it's obvious that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view. This thread isn't about Batman Returns. Let's get back on topic.

[theMan-Bat]

Getting back on topic, here are scans I've made from a Cesar Romero interview from Starlog #146 (September, 1989).

[TruerToTheCore]

Originally Posted by theMan-Bat

You called scenes in Batman Returns pure camp. You seem to be equating anything you see as funny as being pure camp. The common definition of campy humor is self-parody, like the TV show this thread is about. We know that Tim Burton was not doing a self-parody, as Tim Burton says himself in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."

"Camp is an aesthetic sensibility that regards something as appealing or humorous because of its ridiculousness to the viewer". It's camp.

[theMan-Bat]

You consider Batman Returns campy, and I don't. According to that definition you posted: whether or not it's ridiculous, it must also be appealing/humorous to be campy humor. I do not regard those those particular Batman Returns moments in question to be appealing/humorous, so I do not regard them as campy under that definition, either. You disagree with me, and that's fine. I never said everyone has to agree with me. So don't get all bent out of shape if I don't regard Batman Returns as campy. Again, this thread isn't about Batman Returns. So let's get back on the topic of the campy TV show that this appreciation thread is about.

[Léo Ho Tep]

I do think the camp in Batman Returns is consistent with its darkness, and makes gotham look like some kind of gigantic asylum, which is, indeed, consistent with Burton's vision.

[GothamAlleys]

Not to stirr it back to the off topic debate, and Im not picking sides, but Burton did say : "My tone fell somewhere between the TV series and the new dark comics (The Boston Globe June 1989)"

[The Joker]

There was nothing wrong with having that tone either. Batman Returns is my second favorite Batman movie. Those outrageous campy elements like the big yellow duck car and the marching penguin army are all part of it's charm.

As Danny DeVito said in the special features; "How can anyone hate a penguin?"

[Kane52630]

Any word on a potential dvd release of the tv series? ever since WB got the rights back, I wonder how long it will take for them to do one.

[The Joker]

I haven't heard a whisper about it. I'd be overjoyed if it happened. It's nice being able to watch them on YouTube but I want to own them and watch them in the comfort of my living room.

[Homer J. Fong]

For anyone who has the channel The Hub, the '60s show does air on that sometimes. I think they have it on at 5 or 6 in the morning (eastern time in the US, that is) on weekdays. It's something, at least.


For all the Batman talk I've done here, I don't think I've ever talked about my relationship to the '60s show and movie. Needless to say, I liked it a lot when I was a kid, before I had any clue what camp was (and I'm not sure I entirely understand it now); I just watched it because it was Batman dn I'd watch and love anything Batman. Then, as I grew more into Burton's movies - especially Batman Returns - and the Timm/Radomski animated shows, and all kinds of darker Batman stories, I came to resent the '60s show/movie. Actually, it was never really that I resented them and more that I resented how much of an impact they had on countless people for whom that was Batman or who decided that was Batman. Batman was "Bow! Biff! Wham!" Batman was pressing a button under a bust of Shakespeare and sliding down a pole to the Batcave. Batman was the Batusi. "No, no, no, it's all wrong, why don't you people understand?!" I'd cry. I've mellowed out, though (partly because the Chris Nolan movies have sort of alleviated the problem of a lot of people having this show as their definition of Batman), and don't have those frustrations anymore. I think I'd appreciate the show/movie more now.