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View Poll Results: Should Cyclops be replaced with Havok (along with Jean Grey)?
Keep them both in, having Havok as a villain for the movie 12 21.05%
Just keep Cyclops in; after all, it is First Class 32 56.14%
Keep Havok; no Cyclops please 9 15.79%
Get rid of them both 4 7.02%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2010, 06:46 PM   #51
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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Originally Posted by Deaths Head II View Post
I was upset about Scott not being in this movie, but I've learn to accept it. One thing people aren't realizing about why people are upset over this is because First Class was advertised for a while as a movie about Cyclops, Jean and the early team. Sure Singer got a new script when he came on, but people still held out hope that Cyclops would still be a part of the movie. Especially since they were announcing young mutants to star in the film, including Cyclops' brother. It didn't seem like the concept of the film being about the First Class of mutants changed.

The revelation that the film was set in the 60s came just a few days ago, so people like me were disappointed. Sure it doesn't make sense for Scott to be alive in the 60s, but I was wondering why they were setting it in the 60s to begin with. That wasn't the concept they were talking about before. Yes, Cyclops being in the 60s makes as little sense as Angel and Iceman being part of the original team but it's just the fact that we were expecting Cyclops until now and just now got the revelation that it's taking place in the 60s and that Cyclops won't be in it.

Of course, now that the sudden disappointment is over, I'm fully willing to accept the decision and I'm starting to look forward to this movie yet again. The 60s setting will allow for an interesting story, and so will the relationship between Xavier and Magneto. My only hope is that Singer doesn't screw over the characters already in the movie, because I am actually a big fan of Havok and Banshee too. I don't know much about the actors they picked for those two and I don't have a lot of faith at the moment.
No one specified anything about Jean, Cyke, Beast, and Storm being a part of this. Yeah the Shwartzmann script was there and featured them, but once that was tossed, anything was fair game. That is why I was making a big issue about a movies spanning two decades and McAvoy playing a 30-50 year old from beginning to end. You shouldn't have assumed this was a template from the FC comic, or the original high school mutant drama script. The movie title is irrelevant.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:04 PM   #52
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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Jarvis is not a computer.
Nick Fury is not black.
S.H.E.I.L.D. didn't form The Avengers
Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo are two separate characters.
Hogan and Pepper were an item.


You can't bash certain changes and simply overlook others.
Jarvis hasn't been the leader of the x-men since the beginning of the comics.... He's barely as iconic as Alfred really..... because even your average viewer probably knows who Alfred is.

Nick Fury may be black but he's still the head of S.H.E.I.L.D.

How the Avengers are formed in film verse doesn't seem like it will change the crucial line up by much...

whiplash and .... wait who cares!?

Pepper did have the hots for Tony and somehow the movie verse didn't really screw over either character.


This is one of those changes where once again - A crucial character to the mythology gets gypped... again.

This guy's their freaking field leader, he's the fist behind Xavier's dream and not one film did him real justice.

So I think it's fair if some people "hate" on that fact as someone so put it.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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No one specified anything about Jean, Cyke, Beast, and Storm being a part of this. Yeah the Shwartzmann script was there and featured them, but once that was tossed, anything was fair game. That is why I was making a big issue about a movies spanning two decades and McAvoy playing a 30-50 year old from beginning to end. You shouldn't have assumed this was a template from the FC comic, or the original high school mutant drama script. The movie title is irrelevant.
There's a big difference between "holding out hope" and "assuming." Singer didn't say anything about the script and he was still clearly bringing in a team of young X-Men. One of those was Cyclops' brother, one of them was Cyclops' teammate Hank. I was holding out hope that Cyclops and Jean would be announced as well. The First Class element is still there, it just wasn't what the original concept was about and I didn't know that until Singer revealed this takes place in the 60s.

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Old 08-23-2010, 07:36 PM   #54
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

Until it's a reboot, with entirely different people handling the decisions, I'm not gonna care anyway.

I stopped believing they understood cyclops a long time ago, and didn't think they were suddnely going to get it right now.

If anything it's a relief he's not in it. I don't have to see more of their warped idea of who he is and what he's like.

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Old 08-23-2010, 10:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

lol...This is the perfect example of how fans can have such a negative influence on a movie..

I keep bringing this up too--How can people accept the premise of this movie which centers on Magneto and Xavier's early years, but complain that they didn't squeeze in characters that probably don't need to be there but should just because they're popular? We don't want another Gambit situation do we?

I don't care that Cyclops isn't in this movie because I accept the premise of the movie.

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Old 08-23-2010, 10:59 PM   #56
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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lol...This is the perfect example of how fans can have such a negative influence on a movie..

I keep bringing this up too--How can people accept the premise of this movie which centers on Magneto and Xavier's early years, but complain that they didn't squeeze in characters that probably don't need to be there but should just because they're popular? We don't want another Gambit situation do we?

I don't care that Cyclops isn't in this movie because I accept the premise of the movie.
That's exactly what the cast list is giving us; a laundry list of mutants who really have no place in an Xavier/Magneto story. Admittedly the stories about Xavier and Magneto pre-X-Men #1 are interesting, but why not actually, I dunno, use characters from those stories.

Mr. Sinister, The Shadow King, Lucifer, Baron Von Strucker, Cassandra Nova, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Amelia Voight, Legion, young Ororo Monroe...all could have a place in this story, but they choose to throw in an extremely random who's who cast...just like Wolverine.

It's the same WTF factor as having Cyclops and Gambit randomly show up in Wolverine: Origins.

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Old 08-24-2010, 12:23 AM   #57
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

its been said a couple times. this movie will be about magneto and xavier. so they will become friends form a team then breakup. then they go off and form their own teams. probably a sequel we will see cyclops fight havok.

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Old 08-24-2010, 02:19 AM   #58
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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Originally Posted by TNC9852002 View Post
lol...This is the perfect example of how fans can have such a negative influence on a movie..

I keep bringing this up too--How can people accept the premise of this movie which centers on Magneto and Xavier's early years, but complain that they didn't squeeze in characters that probably don't need to be there but should just because they're popular? We don't want another Gambit situation do we?

I don't care that Cyclops isn't in this movie because I accept the premise of the movie.
Well besides everything Optimus_Prime has said...
because for a while now we were expecting X-men.... "First Class"...

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Old 08-24-2010, 02:51 AM   #59
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

Who said there's no Cyclops in this film..? Just because it hasn't been "confirmed" doesn't mean anything... because, technically, no casting choices have yet been "confirmed".

(Why is there no "shaking of the head" smilie??)

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Old 08-24-2010, 03:50 AM   #60
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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Who said there's no Cyclops in this film..? Just because it hasn't been "confirmed" doesn't mean anything... because, technically, no casting choices have yet been "confirmed".

(Why is there no "shaking of the head" smilie??)
where have you been the last 24hrs? Its all over the web, Singer confirmed it. No Jean, no Scott. this automatically destroys whatever interest I had in this film. the first class, team, or whatever the heck you wanna call them were the fantastic five...now these D-List mutants.

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Old 08-24-2010, 03:50 AM   #61
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

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its been said a couple times. this movie will be about magneto and xavier. so they will become friends form a team then breakup. then they go off and form their own teams. probably a sequel we will see cyclops fight havok.
That's what I'm hoping for. That would be the best way to do it.

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Old 08-24-2010, 04:03 AM   #62
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

While the idea of having Alex being older than Scott may sound preposterous, what if Havok came from the future or something? That could possibly explain the age difference.

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Old 08-24-2010, 09:29 AM   #63
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Jarvis is not a computer.
Jarvis is a D-List character at best, who frankly was more interesting as the overtly gay manservant in Ultimates than he ever was in 616. He might as well have been a computer, since he's already just practically the character equivalent of a home appliance.
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Nick Fury is not black.
Clearly though, in Ultimate MU, he is black, and played by Samuel L. Jackson (once he started appearing in Ultimates). It was wise for Marvel to use his character, since he provided such easy access to the comics. Furthermore Nick Fury in 616 is no longer the character he once was. He's not head of S.H.E.I.L.D, and he's infrequently used.
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S.H.E.I.L.D. didn't form The Avengers
Again, in the Ultimate U they clearly did.
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Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo are two separate characters.
The movie actually gets this right. Ivan Vanko is the son of Crimson Dynamo, and his character recently appeared in the comics as the son of Crimson Dynamo. Furthermore, as others said "who cares".
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Hogan and Pepper were an item.
So was Tony and Pepper. Also, this isn't really important to Iron Man's story.

Let's see, if this were Iron Man, making Havok 20 years Scott's senior would be akin to making Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan Tony Stark's grandmother. It changes the entire dynamic and really just seems like their intentionally trying to f*** with the story.

Why is Havok even in this movie? Can you answer that? They could use Amelia Voight, for example. They could use Apocalypse. They could even use Christopher Summers if they're really itching to include a Summers in the movie. ALL WOULD MAKE SENSE with regards to their comic counterparts. Instead they go Havok? Really, no one in that script meeting said "waitaminute that's Scott Summers' younger brother, and Scott isn't born yet, we really can't use him"? I mean what if you had Lex Luthor running around the planet Krypton before it was destroyed? That wouldn't bother you a bit?

There is literally NO REASON to do this, other than to continue the legacy of kicking dirt on Cyclops and anything associated with him.
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You can't bash certain changes and simply overlook others.
Yes I can. It's called judgement. I can hear a change and go "wow, that's a great idea, really helps the story and I'm behind it 100%" and hear another and go "wow, that's really f***ing stupid, what the f*** are you guys on".

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Old 08-24-2010, 10:31 AM   #64
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Let's see, if this were Iron Man, making Havok 20 years Scott's senior would be akin to making Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan Tony Stark's grandmother. It changes the entire dynamic and really just seems like their intentionally trying to f*** with the story.
You just used the Ultimate Universe as an excuse for certain changes. Well, Havok is older than Scott in the Ultimate-U.

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Why is Havok even in this movie? Can you answer that?
I can't.. and get this, it's because.... I HAVEN'T SEE THE MOVIE YET. I know, I know. Pretty crazy.

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There is literally NO REASON to do this, other than to continue the legacy of kicking dirt on Cyclops and anything associated with him.
Really? I see it as a way to pay homage and create a link to Cyclops in a movie that is obviously unable to use him.

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Yes I can. It's called judgement. I can hear a change and go "wow, that's a great idea, really helps the story and I'm behind it 100%" and hear another and go "wow, that's really f***ing stupid, what the f*** are you guys on".
Well in this case, and this my my own opinion, your judgment is bad. To target all the changes in the X-Men movies and use it as a reason to suggest Fox should stop making them and then praise Marvel despite them making many changes as well is nothing more than hypocritical. You know that WB makes changes as well, right? And Sony, etc.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:15 AM   #65
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You can't have X-Men without Cyclops. Cyclops is the X-Men.

I know they may exist, however, in my 20+ years of reading Marvel, I have never once read an X-Men title that did not include Cyclops... even when he left the team, he was still featured in the story.. (and, seriously, how can you have Havok and not Cyclops?) I don't believe that Cyclops is not in this film.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:19 AM   #66
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You can't have X-Men without Cyclops. Cyclops is the X-Men.

I know they may exist, however, in my 20+ years of reading Marvel, I have never once read an X-Men title that did not include Cyclops... even when he left the team, he was still featured in the story.. (and, seriously, how can you have Havok and not Cyclops?) I don't believe that Cyclops is not in this film.
You really don't read many X-books, then.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:22 AM   #67
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You really don't read many X-books, then.
I have a stack of hundreds sitting in my closet. Every single one has Cyclops in it.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:27 AM   #68
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I have a stack of hundreds sitting in my closet. Every single one has Cyclops in it.
Then you specifically buy the ones that happen to feature Cyclops.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:27 AM   #69
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Nope. There are tons of time in the main books alone he's not present. And by main books I mean Uncanny. Cyclops may be an important X-Man, but he's not the X-Man.

There are plenty of times where Storm leads in his stead throughout history, hell even times where Havok himself leads the team. Like JP said, you just don't read many X-Men comics.

And right now he's only really in Uncanny, and the not in continuity anymore Astonishing X-Men.

The other main X Books feature him in every other issue supporting roles.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:30 AM   #70
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Cyclops is one of my favorite characters, but a comment like "He's THE X-Man", a comment which I've actually heard before, is just so ignorant and outlandish. It defeats the purpose of the X-Men all together.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:31 AM   #71
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Then you specifically buy the ones that happen to feature Cyclops.
Haha... no, but like I said... I know they exist (without him). But, per chance, I have never personally seen an issue without him... So, to me, Cyclops is the X-Men..

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:33 AM   #72
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Cyclops is literally in my top 5 X-Men, but I'm not going to be butt hurt if he's not featured in something with the X-Men in it or with their name on it.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:34 AM   #73
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Haha... no, but like I said... I know they exist (without him). But, per chance, I have never personally seen an issue without him... So, to me, Cyclops is the X-Men..
Wow. You must have HUGE gaps in your collection then, because he's been on some long ass sabbaticals from the team before.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:43 AM   #74
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Default Re: No Cyclops; Reaction Thread

In the 70s, Cyclops, Jean, and Professor X were called the heart of the X-Men. That's how I like to view it. At least this film has Professor X.

PS: It's funny because all three of those characters were killed off in X3.

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Old 08-24-2010, 11:44 AM   #75
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Eh. Jean is always dead. Xavier's pretty much a douchebag now, and most of the team hates Cyclops.

Things have changed. That was the 70's.

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