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Old 02-11-2011, 03:11 PM   #51
Nave 'Torment'
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
But Bryan Singer has specifically stated that it's not called X-Men United. That was what Fox came up with.

The film is called X2.
Oh... alrighty then

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Old 02-11-2011, 05:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

I can see how they are ignoring things from Wolverine (i.e. Emma Frost), but not so much X3. Funny enough they seem to be using the same visual effect for Emma Frost.

X3 it's pretty clear that Hank was one of the original X-men, so I don't see how this story conflicts with that. Infact, I hope it will strengthen it. Kelsey Grammar was one of the only reasons to see X3, but unfortunately he didn't have alot of screen time with McKellum so the connection to Magneto was gone.

Clearly at this point the X-movies are an entirely different element than the comics, so I'm not expecting any kind of faithful rendition to anything in the books. I do hope that we get a serious story about the interaction between Magneto and Xavier.

I'm also of the opinion that XMO: Woverine wasn't terrible, it was dissapointing, and could have been better with some stops in the editing room. I liked Gambit, but some of the other elements were downright silly, with Deadpool being the top of the list. However I like Jackman, and while he's not exactly the Wolverine from the comics, I think he reflects most of the main characteristics of Logan and then added some of his own personality traits as any actor would do.

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Old 02-11-2011, 06:04 PM   #53
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

So stupid for everyone to try and retconn X3 and Origins, just cause you dont like it.

Its part of the series, its part of continuity...and like X-Men comics, continuity is all jumbled, its as close as a comic storyline/series as you will get lol.

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Old 02-11-2011, 06:08 PM   #54
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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So stupid for everyone to try and retconn X3 and Origins, just cause you dont like it.

Its part of the series, its part of continuity...and like X-Men comics, continuity is all jumbled, its as close as a comic storyline/series as you will get lol.
Ha ha, very true.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

All of the X-films have issues... with X2 being the least... but X1... I'm sorry but the first X-men had some very silly elements... mainly the entire main plot about Magneto trying to turn everyone into mutants. Everyone hates Wolverine Origins... but Victor Creed in WO was a much more interesting character then in the first X-men. Sometimes I wonder if this "hate" for certain movies is just people's views being changed by peer pressure, or maybe if someone says something long enough everyone starts to believe it. X-men 1 was just as silly as the rest of the X-men movies. Did everyone forget some of the dialogue... "Do you know what happens to a toad when it gets struck by lightning?" Don't get my wrong, I love the movie, but saying it's far superior to the rest is silly. All this talk about rebooting or Retconning is just speculation because we know for a fact that Fox has tried extremely hard to keep continuity. They kept it with Wolverine Origins, they are keeping it with First Class, and as far as we know The Wolverine as well. Except we won't have the cameos of the other movies, because it's Wolverine's personal story. Unless we see some evidence that Fox is rebooting or canceling out certain movies, there is no reason to say that's how it is just because you dislike one movie over another. If you are a real hardcore x-men comic book fan, then you should probably hate ALL the movies, with all the changes they have made. I can understand people saying they want a complete reboot, and I can understand people saying they like all the movies, but if you are a fan of the franchise accept the reality that these films were in fact released... and are in fact part of the franchise. Denial... It's a hard one I guess.

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Old 02-12-2011, 12:42 AM   #56
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Thumbs up Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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Originally Posted by JerseyJoker View Post
So stupid for everyone to try and retconn X3 and Origins, just cause you dont like it.

Its part of the series, its part of continuity...and like X-Men comics, continuity is all jumbled, its as close as a comic storyline/series as you will get lol.
Indeed!

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Old 02-12-2011, 01:01 AM   #57
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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I wish Singer would just go ahead and do X3. FOX made their money from Last Stand nothing to lose in dumping it now haha.

I just watched through the end credits of X-men 3 and turns out it's all just a crazy dream being had by some guy in a coma.

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Old 02-12-2011, 01:13 AM   #58
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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Originally Posted by JerseyJoker View Post
So stupid for everyone to try and retconn X3 and Origins, just cause you dont like it.

Its part of the series, its part of continuity...and like X-Men comics, continuity is all jumbled, its as close as a comic storyline/series as you will get lol.
True, I wouldn't say it's stupid for everyone, just that it's too nit-picky. Though, seeing as how Singer is involved, I understand why people are saying that.

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I just watched through the end credits of X-men 3 and turns out it's all just a crazy dream being had by some guy in a coma.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-12-2011, 05:19 AM   #59
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

in synger's idea for x-3 emma frost would be an old lover of charles, and interestingly enough she'll appear in this one, i think that Brian Synger is planting seed to make x-men 4 what he envisioned x-3 to be.

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Old 02-12-2011, 08:23 AM   #60
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

It would be awesome if they did X-4. But we shall see.

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Old 02-12-2011, 09:13 AM   #61
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

I think the idea of retconning x men 3 and origins is dumb, and I hate the concept of reboots in general (the exception to the rule being nolans batman, but just cuz one franchise did it doesn't mean everyone needs to). And I dont say that simply because I'm a fan of xmtls and xmow... I'd say the same thing about terminator too. I hate t3 and t salvation (at least in comparison to t1 and t2) but I certainly wouldn't want something to come along to strike them from the continuity. Whether I like it or not, those movies are part of the continuity. If I remember correctly, that was even one of the problems I had with Sarah Conner chronicles, is that it seemed to retcon things from t3. As a personal preference I dont watch any of the movies beyond t2, but that doesn't change the fact that those other films are continuity. Purposefully ignoring certain aspects of continuity is simply put bad storytelling, and if you dont want to follow the continuity that's been established then maybe you shouldn't be making a film in an already established film series. This is my biggest concern with fc, the seeming errors of continuity this film presents (as well as bastardizing the entire "1st class" by neglecting to include the actual first class with Cyclops and bringing in jean. But in the end, i suppose i can accept beast, banshee and havok)

Luckily tho it doesn't seem like they are blatantly saying xtls or xmow didn't happen, the contradictions in continuity are gonna be rather minor and over lookable (Moira for one... Perhaps she just aged well in x3, not enough of an error to be considered a retcon. Same with Emma frost. I dont even think she's called Emma in xmow. Not a retcon. The worst is really xaviers ability to walk in xmow and x3 and still being buddy buddy with magneto in x3. A continuity error to be sure, but hardly a MAJOR plot point.)

There's not enough in this film to constitute it being a retcon or a reboot. There are some definite errors of continuity, but it should still exist well within the universe. Same with the wolverine. Making a stand alone story that doesn't reference xmow isn't the same as throwing out continuity. Unless it re explores his origin, it can still exist in the continuity simply as a stand alone story that isn't connected to the larger overall story. Which considering its a spinoff, is fine by me. And wolverine fans certainly deserve to see his story told without xmen interference. I saw xmow more of an x men prequel that happened to focus on logans weapon x roots than an actual wolverine film. The wolverine can be that wolverine film.

I'll still have my concerns about fc, due to the continuity and their creative choices, but it appears to be a good film, and it appears that its gonna exist well in the continuity (I think exploring beasts past with the xmen that was referenced in x3 is proof enough that x3 isn't being tossed out of continuity. His look isn't different enough... Plus a time difference of about 40 years can easily explain the difference in appearance)

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Old 02-12-2011, 12:31 PM   #62
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

Reboot will happen... Eventually. It's inevitable. These characters are eternal, but actors sure aren't.

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Old 02-13-2011, 03:23 AM   #63
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Exclamation Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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Originally Posted by JerseyJoker View Post
So stupid for everyone to try and retconn X3 and Origins, just cause you dont like it.

Its part of the series, its part of continuity...and like X-Men comics, continuity is all jumbled, its as close as a comic storyline/series as you will get lol.
Especially since general audiences enjoyed both X3 and Wolverine. Factor out the percentage of sniveling fanboys whining about both films and you have good feelings built up for the entire four movies. Why would Fox want to waste that??? I know comic fan geek boards can spew some hate for these films but in general, "most people" enjoyed them quite a bit. You don't rake in well over a billion dollars with a trilogy and have great DVD sales every time out unless something is working.

A quick duck in to IMDB to check out the ratings and X3 (the weakest film of all four IMO) still drew an average of 7/10 with 114,000 people chiming in. Origins came in just below that with X2 higher. Not bad considering the slanted hate and "1" voters from certain passionate flamers. The grades at Mojo are just as good. I honestly don't feel like gathering data from everywhere but you get my point.

Never in all of movie history has a 7/10 solid film like X-Men Origins Wolverine taken so much unwarranted **** from an alleged fanbase.

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Old 02-13-2011, 04:47 AM   #64
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Default Re: Retconn to x3 & Orgins?

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Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay View Post
Luckily tho it doesn't seem like they are blatantly saying xtls or xmow didn't happen, the contradictions in continuity are gonna be rather minor and over lookable (Moira for one... Perhaps she just aged well in x3, not enough of an error to be considered a retcon. Same with Emma frost. I dont even think she's called Emma in xmow. Not a retcon. The worst is really xaviers ability to walk in xmow and x3 and still being buddy buddy with magneto in x3. A continuity error to be sure, but hardly a MAJOR plot point.)
This can be very easily fixed if Charles' baldness occurs prior to his paralysis. Or a time jump near the epilogue. Either way, it's not a major plot point that cannot be fixed with careful writing. Agree with the rest of your post!

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There's not enough in this film to constitute it being a retcon or a reboot. There are some definite errors of continuity, but it should still exist well within the universe.
We haven't seen this one yet to make those conclusions.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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