Michael Bay has killed Transformers for me

[Jochimus]

Originally Posted by Hound89

jeez u guy need to grow a sense of humor

Also bay didn't do any thing wrong with the source material other then give them a more defined purpose for being on earth

Obviously. In fact, he liked it so much, he did it twice. Personally, I can't wait to see what OTHER long-lost and precious life-giving Cybertronian artifact will be discovered to JUST HAPPEN to have been on Earth for centuries on end and can apparently only be wielded against the forces of evil by Sam Witwicky in the third one...

The old TF mythos may have had a more general premise (the Decepticons trying to bleed the Earth dry of energy resources and the Autobots fighting to stop them), but at least between the cartoon and the comic book it could support a NUMBER of different plots.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by Jochimus

Obviously. In fact, he liked it so much, he did it twice. Personally, I can't wait to see what OTHER long-lost and precious life-giving Cybertronian artifact will be discovered to JUST HAPPEN to have been on Earth for centuries on end and can apparently only be wielded against the forces of evil by Sam Witwicky in the third one...

it will apparently be on the moon and even if there is one they have a reason for it now cause the Fallen was there

but we dont know what the plot is even about yet so i digress

So you hate walls of text... here goes a simple explanation.

Bay...
Made...
Everything...
Dumb.

No

He

Didn't

[knowsbleed]

Good argument. You win. *explosion* The end.



^new Michael Bay movie.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by knowsbleed

Good argument. You win. *explosion* The end.



^new Michael Bay movie.

hahaha Ive never herd that joke before

[knowsbleed]

Look, either add to the conversation or move on... unless you feel the need to post more rolly eyes to add to your already strong arguments.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by knowsbleed

Look, either add to the conversation or move on... unless you feel the need to post more rolly eyes to add to your already strong arguments.

My arguments are weak? yet your response was this

Originally Posted by knowsbleed

Bay...
Made...
Everything...
Dumb.

followed by a tired ass joke about bay

Why dont you try saying some thing new, and then ill respond, hows that sound chief?

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hound89

1. the all Spark

2. the Sun Harvester/Matrix

now with out giving me a wall of text

what did he do wrong with he source material?

In the source material the Decepticons raided Earth's energy resources. It was an analogy for imperialism. Bay turned Transformers into army recruitment ad mixed with a monster truck rally because he's a neo-conservative.

Like I said, we got a condescending, frat boy version of Transformers instead of a geek-centric version.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

In the source material the Decepticons raided Earth's energy resources. It was an analogy for imperialism.

your reading to much into it , there wasn't any secret analogy, they just wanted to steal energy, and most of there plans were stupid once they were able to easily get off the planet

its why every Transformers series since G1 has had the Deceptions actively looking for some thing on earth

Bay turned Transformers into army recruitment ad mixed with a monster truck rally because he's a neo-conservative.

Bay has Contacts with the military, if u were makign a transformers movie you'd us those contacts too, The military has a presenc ein the movie cause it dumb to think the military would just sit back and let the Autobots do the work, so calling it an army recruitment add is being irrational

Like I said, we got a condescending, frat boy version of Transformers instead of a geek-centric version.

it was plenty geek centric.

How they handled soundwave, is an example of them caring about the source material

dont know where u get "condescending" from

[knowsbleed]

Originally Posted by Hound89

My arguments are weak? yet your response was this


followed by a tired ass joke about bay

Why dont you try saying some thing new, and then ill respond, hows that sound chief?

You asked for simple, I gave you simple. Simple wanted simple and got simple... and now you complain?

Chief? Your tough talk is so good. I'm virtually shaking here.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hound89

your reading to much into it , there wasn't any secret analogy, they just wanted to steal energy, and most of there plans were stupid once they were able to easily get off the planet

Your right it was no secret. The analogy is obvious. A powerful occupying force steals oil and energy from a native species who is helpless to stop them. And the Decepticons had plenty of reasons to stay on Earth. Cybertron was depleted so the Decepticons needed more power sources.

Bay has Contacts with the military, if u were makign a transformers movie you'd us those contacts too, The military has a presenc ein the movie cause it dumb to think the military would just sit back and let the Autobots do the work, so calling it an army recruitment add is being irrational

In the original series it was clear the human military was outmatched by Decepticons so they left it up to the Autobots to stop them. Making Transformers an army recruitment ad is the opposite message of the original. The decepticons were created as military class and the autobots were created as a worker class. Another analogy scrapped by Bay, I guess he wanted to spend more time showing robots fart/piss/hump or close ups of man ass.

it was plenty geek centric.

How they handled soundwave, is an example of them caring about the source material

dont know where u get "condescending" from

It wasn't geek-centric. It was made by frat boys for frat boys.

The movie is condescending because it crams robot fighting it's most idiotic blockbuster in history instead of elevating the material for the sake of a grown up fanbase.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Your right it was no secret. The analogy is obvious. A powerful occupying force steals oil and energy from a native species who is helpless to stop them. And the Decepticons had plenty of reasons to stay on Earth. Cybertron was depleted so the Decepticons needed more power sources.

with how the energon cubes worked there were easier ways for them to get energy that wouldn't have the autobots messing them up every week

In the original series it was clear the human military was outmatched by Decepticons so they left it up to the Autobots to stop them. Making Transformers an army recruitment ad is the opposite message of the original. The decepticons were created as military class and the autobots were created as a worker class. Another analogy scrapped by Bay, I guess he wanted to spend more time showing robots fart/piss/hump or close ups of man ass.

first Bay didnt scrap it

or did u not notice all the decepticons were military vehicles [atleast in the first one] and all the autobots are cars?

The human military is still out matched, but they serve as valuable support, calling it a "Recruitment add" is so petty

It wasn't geek-centric. It was made by frat boys for frat boys.

The movie is condescending because it crams robot fighting it's most idiotic blockbuster in history instead of elevating the material for the sake of a grown up fanbase.

there are much more idiotic block busters i can think of

Its transformers, its supposed to be robots fighting, i know 15 minutes of the autobots siting around talking about there feelings seems appealing, but it would be a waste of money, their was plenty of geek wank to satisfy me

and if u think the movies haven't "elevated" the material ur refusing to see it out of hurt feelings

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by AirUpThere

Michael Bay is horrible and is receiving so much credit for the ticket sales success of Transformers. It seriously makes me sick.

see GJ Joe
a fairly acurate adaptation of 80's source material...no one cared...
not even the fanboys that cry from their parents basements that their source material is the old testament.

no one cared.
80's are kinda lame in modern society...a new transformers cartoon comes on, no one(avid tv watchers) cares. A new tf comic book series..no one(comicbook fan) cares.

why is it bays TF is so huge but other 80's properties(including speed racer) are so forgotten?
dumb question I know.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

idiotic blockbuster in history instead of elevating the material for the sake of a grown up fanbase.

If they were to make a life action barbie movie...elevating it to sex and the city would be a no no.
just because the "original" audience grows up, doesn't mean the material has to.

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Many many things in Bayformers were idiotic. MEgan fox landing on some dudes dick, a decepticon humping her leg, dogs humping, ass shots of john tuturro, parents on marijuana, stereotypical transformers, robots pissing on people, devastator with a ballsack, etc etc. That is how you dumb down a movie. Its as cheap as a fart in terms of getting a cheap laugh.

Some things also just didnt make sense. Why did the decepticons enroll a human transforming decepticon in college to attend keg parties and seduce Sam to kill him in bed. Why not just blow the **** out of the lecture halls he is going to be in or abduct him there? They are giant robots after all.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by 8Diagrams(WU)

Many many things in Bayformers were idiotic. MEgan fox landing on some dudes dick, a decepticon humping her leg, dogs humping, ass shots of john tuturro, parents on marijuana, stereotypical transformers, robots pissing on people, devastator with a ballsack, etc etc. That is how you dumb down a movie. Its as cheap as a fart in terms of getting a cheap laugh.

and guess what all that stuff is funny, it did what its supposed to, there's no harm in humor

Some things also just didnt make sense. Why did the decepticons enroll a human transforming decepticon in college to attend keg parties and seduce Sam to kill him in bed. Why not just blow the **** out of the lecture halls he is going to be in or abduct him there? They are giant robots after all.

they were keeping an eye on him to see if he had any info, or any thing, its called stealth especially if they are under the assumption the autobots are guarding him

they are Robots in DISGUISE after all

[knowsbleed]

The justification for saying that Bay's movies are good are pretty much along the lines of this:

"Transformers was silly in the first place... there's no reason it has to be serious now."

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by knowsbleed

The justification for saying that Bay's movies are good are pretty much along the lines of this:

"Transformers was silly in the first place... there's no reason it has to be serious now."

sept the movies are much more serious then the cartoon

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Marvin

If they were to make a life action barbie movie...elevating it to sex and the city would be a no no.
just because the "original" audience grows up, doesn't mean the material has to.

I'm not saying make it only for adults. I'm saying embellish the story and characters to make it more memorable and satsfying. The same way Star Wars and Indiana Jones took cheesy serials from the 30's and made them classic cinema.

Instead of potty humor mixed with a monster truck rally you could have cyber punk space opera that offers more than cheap thrills.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hound89

sept the movies are much more serious then the cartoon

Kids openly wept during the Transformer animated movie when Optimus died.

Did anyone cry when Optimus died during Bayformers? What about Sam?

Nope, not at all.

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I'm not saying make it only for adults. I'm saying embellish the story and characters to make it more memorable and satsfying. The same way Star Wars and Indiana Jones took cheesy serials from the 30's and made them classic cinema.

Instead of potty humor mixed with a monster truck rally you could have cyber punk space opera that offers more than cheap thrills.

that is not the transformers every one knows and loves

and these movies will be remembered, and parodied and honored for years to come whether you like it or not

[Jake Cassidy]

I like Bay's movies and the cartoons. Is that allowed? Or do I have to pick 1 or the other?

[Hound89]

Originally Posted by Jake Cassidy

I like Bay's movies and the cartoons. Is that allowed? Or do I have to pick 1 or the other?

It is perfectly fine and normal, The hardcore Transformers fans are known for there to ability to hate on any thing remotely new or diffent when it comes to the franchise

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Kids openly wept during the Transformer animated movie when Optimus died.

Did anyone cry when Optimus died during Bayformers? What about Sam?

Nope, not at all.

proof?
I'd like some

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by knowsbleed

The justification for saying that Bay's movies are good are pretty much along the lines of this:

"Transformers was silly in the first place... there's no reason it has to be serious now."

Did the old movies involve gov't viral crackers or logical military responses to extra and or terrestrial threats.How bout the socialogical remifications that a saburbanite would suffer upon discovering that in his case the western tradition of recieving one's first car is elevated to first contact...

The old cartoon had at best a silly theme taken seriously involving class issues in space with robots...I'll be the first to admit that that is removed but I do seem to remember the modern flame wearing prime making several speeching about the value of life.

in all seriousness...
give it up
in any other super hero thread the amount of negative discussions allowed in the bay zone would be ...a "concern."

and don't get me started on the double standard when it comes to acceptable humorous material between this franchise and other films.

[8Diagrams(WU)]

Give James Cameron that same budget and the guy can bring a much higher quality movie that can still entertain the masses without the unnessesary Bay stuff. Its weird, its a movie with high quality special effects, but that ends up being low quality in overall terms.

[bell110]

Originally Posted by Mace Dolex

I'm a die hard TF fan since 1984 when I was 8 and have collected the toys, comics, VHS, DVD's and just hate it when other so called fans just blame characters in one move only because of the potty humor and Bay's fascination with mindless action.

If fans have anything to complain it was the TF Armada/Cybertron/Energon cartoons which were complete garbage and now we have whiney people complaining that the movies featured too much time on the humans.

Whether I hate to admit it if an entire 2 hours were focused solely on Transformers then we'd have a boring movie, the humans are always needed in the TF universe so the audience can have someone to relate to.

Michael Bay has many haters but if it weren't for him the Transformers brand wouldn't be as big as it is now. SO DEAL WITH IT!!!

I do hate the Armada/Cybertron/Energon series. And you can't prove either way that Bay is the reason for how big Transformers are. Giant transforming robots are just inherently cool. A lot of directors could have done the same or better with Transformers.

Originally Posted by Hotwire

The cartoon was made in 1984, as a toy commercial, for kids. The movies were made in 2007+, as a toy commercial, for the people who were kids when the cartoon came out, and the kids they have now. My original point was that the same stuff that was OK for them to do in the cartoon, is somehow, not OK for Bay to do.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a good movie. Movies should be have a higher quality than cartoons. Toys would have sold regardless.

Originally Posted by Hound89

1. the all Spark

2. the Sun Harvester/Matrix

now with out giving me a wall of text

what did he do wrong with he source material?

Well, there wasn't any "all spark" in the old toons. The matix was different in the toon. There was no sun harvester in the old toon, and that was just a stupid idea.

Originally Posted by Hound89

How they handled soundwave, is an example of them caring about the source material

dont know where u get "condescending" from

Yeah, how they handled Soundwave. They didn't even use the vocoder.