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Old 03-16-2011, 04:23 PM   #76
White_widow
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

1) For simplistic and easy, kevlar and sheet foam do not come to mind. If you have these supplies, go for it! It think that would make a nearly impossible to break cuff. If you want cheap and easy, I got a cuff idea for you. Get the sweat wristbands from walmart for 3-5$ Next take a soup can and cut the lid off of both sides (though that only works with some kinds of cans). Then take pliars and "bite" down on the ridges on the inside of the can. They will slice you if you ignore that step. Finally, glue the wristband to the metal can. (If you have webbing, glue shouldn't be a problem!)

2) Sounds good. It allows the cartridges to keep what small pressure they have to themselves and quick cartridge replacements.

3) So how does that work exactly? Can you describe it in more detail?

There is almost nothing you can weld that you can't find an adhesive for. The bond may not be as strong, but sometimes that's a good thing. Also, certain epoxies can hold over 3000psi worth of breaking force. It works for metals. For equipment, think peter parker. When I started, I had all these glorious ideas for solenoid valves (which I'm not going to lie, I had no idea what one was at that point), pressure vessels, and air compressors. Peter parker had science geek beakers, very little chemicals, and whatever he could find in Uncle Ben's tool box. I recommend a drill, a dremel, and a giftcard to homedepot. That's really all you need to build a prototype.

If you want to pressurize the fluid by rapid oxidation, then you add yeast in very warm water. You will not get pressure for very long using that method, especially with 3% hydrogen peroxide. Also, go light on the surfactant (soap). Too much will make it bubble and absorb the oxygen that the formula needs more of.

Let me know if I can provide any further assistance.

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Old 03-16-2011, 05:23 PM   #77
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Well, when you showed the elephant toothpaste, it seemed like a small amount of something reacted with the yeast, causing the mixture to rise and shoot out. I plan to do this in a fine-point cartridge, and put the tip into the nozzle, which will open ans close. And I dont mean to be annoying, but I'm a little confused on the overall ingredients for the fluid, and how to put them togrther. You mentioned soap and 3% hydrogen peroxide? I just want to be clear before I go out and buy the materials.

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Old 03-16-2011, 08:02 PM   #78
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Alright. How do you propose to be able to shut the nozzle on and off? A valve?

As for the ingredients so far:

stringy cohesive glue:

Styrofoam (until better plastic is located)
acetone (100% pure. Can't be anything lower)
instant contact cement (contains acetone and comes in 3 oz)

Note: the longer you stir it, the stronger it gets. Also, just use just enough acetone to make the styrofoam a blob. any more will make it too thin.

Propellant:

-warm water
-Yeast
-hydrogen peroxide (available at any store in 3% concentration. In hair salons, one can get 6%. On the internet, one can get 30% more concentrated equals more oxygen.)
-soap (to make foamy any dish soap would do the trick.)

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Old 03-16-2011, 09:51 PM   #79
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

The nozzle will probably be something like a casual straw, reenforced with something, maybe duct tape or thicker coatings of plastic. There will be a string or rubber band holding it so that it is closed. Think when you bend a hose, and the water stops, but when you open it up, there is still continuous flow of water. This is the principal I intend to incorporate into this part of the shooter. There will be a somewhat sculpted chambet that fits the cartridge, this way they can be interchangable. Then, the end of the cartridge will go into the back of the nozzle, after it is activated. Then the water-hose element is incorperated. That way I don't have to keep shooting until the fluid is drained. And 1 more thing: I bought instant krazy glue instead of cement. Will this still work?

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Old 03-17-2011, 05:57 AM   #80
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Interesting theory! I can honestly say that no one has brought that one up. ^^ Yes, Krazy glue will work, but it will burn clothing and attatch to skin. There's more to this message, but I have to leave for a while. I'll finish later today.

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Old 03-17-2011, 03:28 PM   #81
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

There is two problems and maybe a third with Krazy glue and the current formula. Krazy glue (aka cyanoacrylate):

1.) burns through some styrofoams weakening the structural integrity to make itself stronger. This will make the thing hard to break, but incapable of bending or staying a liquid in the cartridges.

2.) The elephant toothpaste experiment works by the chemical reaction
2H2O2--> 2 H20+ O2. This means that the hydrogen peroxide becomes water and oxygen gas. Krazy glue reacts with hydroxide. This means that it will react with the water and release heat and more oxygen. It will also lose its super adhesive strength.

3.) cyanoacrylate is very, very hard to get off of people causing damage.

Because of the elephant toothpaste experiment and it's pretty low viscosity, it wouldn't work unless you used a different propellant. It will jam your shooter unless you seperate the elephant toothpaste from your superglue. If you do want to use the krazy glue (because it is by far the strongest glue that isn't created by nano technology), I recommend experimenting with Leren's web fluid.

Leren's web fluid:
-1/3 crazy glue
-1/3 anti-adhesive
-1/3 Krazy glue
-add salt and vinegar

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Old 03-17-2011, 03:37 PM   #82
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Ok, thanks for the info. I'll just go get some instant cement then. Where did you get yours from? I'm having trouble finding it. And I will have some photos posted by the end of the week as well as the test results for the fluid. Is there a certain temperature it works best at?

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Old 03-17-2011, 03:41 PM   #83
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Wow! You're fast 0.o Ok. Well, the instant cement can be found at home depot or lowes in a small brown bottle. It is next to several cans of it. It's near the paint section down one of the aisles. As for temperature, I haven't tested any temperature constrains but avoid using excess heat as that will cause the solution to burn..., very very quickly.


Last edited by White_widow; 03-17-2011 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:27 PM   #84
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Hey, I just started making a batch of fluid. It's going pretty well, but I was wondering if you had a ratio for the propellant yet. I also have drawn up some more sketches for the shooters,although I doubt that I'll have them posted by tomorrow.

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Old 03-19-2011, 07:13 PM   #85
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Nice! I don't have a ratio for yeast, water, hydrogen peroxide, and the formula. This is because I do not have a cartridge that is strong enough to support the pressure. As for the sketches, that's to be expected. This project takes longer then you'd think. I appreciate that you are trying to create it. I'm glad to see people continuing this work.

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Old 03-19-2011, 11:05 PM   #86
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

So when you say you havent found a cartridge that can hold the pressure, what have you tried so far? Just so I dont repeat anything you already tried. And do you have a recorded pressure/psi for the fluid? I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the shooters, but dont get your hopes up. I'll let you know as soon as(if) I figure it out.

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:31 AM   #87
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

What I mean is that I have not purchased a steel nipple for the test. I've used a steel flask and a plastic chemical proof bottle. The flask was too wide for the elephant toothpaste and the bottle was too small to hold in the pressure. One would need somehing that is both strong and narrow. The psi that broke the flask was 70- 80psi. The reason for that was I was using an air compressor and not another vessel of air that would help take it in. (like a co2 cartridge) Keep in mind that the same amount of air gives you different psi ratings. Keep me posted.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:34 PM   #88
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

I will. And about how big were the bottle and flask? When I designed the shooter, I was looking to get it to be rather short on the arm(for flexibility), and thin(for conceling it). In the comics it never went all the way up his forearm, and wasnt visible if he wore them under his street-clothes. And something just hit me: You said the propellent releases oxygen when it is mixed with the fluid. This obviously contributes to the pressure build up. If we can find a way to release some of this, we may not need an AS strong container than if we were to leave it alone. I'll get right on that.............................................. .........

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:42 PM   #89
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

The flask was eight ounces and the container was about two/thirds of an ounce. The comics use the small amount of fluid because it is shear thinning, but because our formula is not, it means we will run out much quicker (though the guear gum/ borax crosslink might solve that). As for pressure, it's not that we need much, it's that we need enough over time to fire out that fluid at a specific distance. I'm working on a modified formula right now but I'm guessing we need it to fire at least 6-8 ounces for it give or take.

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Old 03-20-2011, 02:59 PM   #90
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Ok, thanks. Now, the steel nipples are up to about a foot long, and have no tops to them from the pics I loooked up. Also, I'm starting to think that we might not need interchangeable cartridges. We could have 1 attached to the cuff, and have extra mini-tubes, like small test tubes, filled with the fluid. Then we simply fill the cartridges again, and activate them. I also remember in the earlier comics he didnt refill them at all, because he hadnt made them interchangeable yet. Just an idea we can look into. Especially if we can get about 6-8 ounces per cartridge.

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Old 03-20-2011, 03:08 PM   #91
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

That's true. That was a matter of convenience. I'm really interested to see how your shooter works out! This is probably the first time someone on this forum has come close to building one.


Last edited by White_widow; 03-20-2011 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:21 PM   #92
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Yah, me too. But you have really done the hard work. I doubt I could have come up with a working fluid. Anyway, I think we should REALLY look into this method. It seems alot less complicated, and would be more cost effective. And that way you dont have to depend on extra cartridges for the fluid. And it might also be a good idea to get a ratio of the amount of webs from the amount of the fluid used. (EXAMPLE) Like 5 feet of webs for every 2 ounces of fluid.


Last edited by JMA610; 03-20-2011 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:36 PM   #93
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

With enough time you would have. As for the webs to fluid ratio, I suppose that depends on thickness of strands, amount of pressure, nozzle openings, and how quickly it dries. I can't really test any of these numbers without the actual shooters themselves. I'm thinking I should get a co2 punture kit and use my epoxy to seal it to a flask that I can put the fluid in. That way, If the co2 doesn't utterly destroy the can, I can do some of these tests.

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Old 03-20-2011, 03:41 PM   #94
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Right. And with a flask we will be able to hold even more fluid than with just a steel nipple. I'll let you know if I get anywere with that.

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Old 03-20-2011, 03:44 PM   #95
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

I have all of the materials for that shooter though. What do you have for your shooter in supplies?

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Old 03-20-2011, 04:01 PM   #96
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

So far, nothing besides the partially finnished fluid. I really havent had a chance to locate and buy all of my materials. But I should have some of them very soon. And I really think that youve come up with a solution for the shooter with the flask and the co2 cartridge. It is spaceous, conceled, and still looks relatively like the comics' shooters. That being said, The new version of my shooters will be revealed:

1) The same type of cuff, but no cartridge chamber.

2) The flask will be placed were the chamber was, on the bottom of the forearm, with the CO2 cartridge on top.

3) There will be a hole in the flask and cartridge, and something, maybe a small metal tube sautered on, connecting them.

4) The fluid will go in the cap of the flask, and so will the propellent. The cap will be placed on directly after the propellent is put in. The pressure will nrise up thriugh the tube, exit through the cartridge, and there will be webs.

5) The valve is still a work in progress for this model, but I'll be sure to keep you posted.

Well, there you have it. Now I have to go, but I'll be back later tonight.
Let me know what you think of the shooter design so far.

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Old 03-20-2011, 04:13 PM   #97
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Alright, Well have a good time wherever you are going. As a general idea, cap attached to a stem twists off to create a small hole that can be soldered to a pressure tube which connects to a Co2 adapter. I like it so far. The only caution I can give you is be careful with co2. IT is very hard to control when not secure. I'm sure you knew that but I figured I should add the warning, as I don't know your age.

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Old 03-21-2011, 04:24 AM   #98
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Wow! You guys are amazing! All the thought process that goes into this seems to really be paying off WhiteWidow, if you've finished a prototype yet (or if anyone has) can I buy it from you? If not it's ok. I'm not a science wizard like you guys. My talent is drawing the comic books and music. Hahaha. Still, I'll look this over for more details on how to build these and make them not look like engines on my arms. I admire all your creative and scientific skill. The only thing close to web shooters I've made are based on the principals of a fishing reel. With fishing line that could hold 500lbs. Anyway, just wanted to say you guys are awesome and hope to see more of this soon

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:23 AM   #99
White_widow
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Thank you. I appreciate that! I really do. We do not have a working prototype as of yet but we are close. I need to buy one more piece for mine and JMA610 is working on one right now. Did you ever have the username frankmckeever18? I know that guy built a fishing line web shooter and I think he came close to a CO2 one. Whatever the case, if I manage to create a prototype, I'll sell it to you but you'll have to make your own fluid because the formula doesn't ship. I'll tell you how to make it though no extra charge.

I am making a tweak in the web fluid, but I'm still analyzing the chemistry behind it. If it succeeds I'll post. If not, assume it didn't work. Happy spinning!

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Old 03-21-2011, 04:04 PM   #100
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Hey, thanks man. I thought it was only me and White widow on this thread anymore, but thankfully no! Yes, I am in the process of gathering the supplies for my shooter, so it might not be done as soon as White widows'. But thanks again, really. Most of the people I know wouldnt be too enthusiastic about this project. I'm also thinking me and White widow might be able to patent this design depending on how well it turns out.

On another note (for White Widow):
Hopefully I can have full blueprints for the shooters on here instead of just sketches, unless it is decided that they will be for sale(the blueprints).

Also, Ithink I might need some more explanation for what you posted regarding CO2 cartridges and the flask. It may just be the wording. I'm having a kinda slow day

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