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Old 03-21-2011, 03:14 PM   #101
JMA610
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention, I talked to a friend and his metal working tools will be up for grabs this weekend, so I reserved them. That being said, I'll be able to make an all metal cuff and parts for it.

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Old 03-21-2011, 03:22 PM   #102
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Woah... you have access to metal working tools? I must ask, How old are you? Before that though, the flask is a metal box with a hinged cap on it. Take the hinge off by twisting it to create a hole. The hole should be connected to tubing which leads to a CO2 adapter. The Co2 adapter has a needle to puncture the cartridge and secures it in place. If the adapter is welded to the cuff the cartridge will be secure.

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:44 AM   #103
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Ok, thanks for the explanation. And not to worry, I am of legal age and know the tools I'm using. Plus, there will be other people around anyway.
So I'll probably get close to done this weekend. Hopefully.

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Old 03-22-2011, 04:25 PM   #104
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Idea! It just came to my attention that the shooters dont have to have large flasks or C02 to fire the fluid. I found little 3-4 ounce belt flasks at target. Not only would these work on a cartridge belt like in the cartoon and later comics, but it would mean the more we could fit onto 1 shooter. Heres my newest plan:

1) Cuff made out of layered sheet matal, fitted around a portion of my forearm.

2) The belt flasks will have bent pieces welded on the back so that they can be taken off or clipped on through slits in the cuff. Thus, they are movable/replacable.

3) Test the smaller containers, hopefully can find a way to contain 70-80 psi (probably less psi due to smaller amount and area). The guar gum would make this work even better, but I will tweek the fluid as soon as I run tests with the shooter.

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:02 PM   #105
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Did you find those online or at target? If it's online, then they're still kind of bulky but if not, SCORE! If you have metal welding tools and sheet metal, reinforce the cartridges around the seams while adding the clips. That's a GREAT idea! Are you going for CO2 or hydrogen peroxide propulsion? If you choose hydrogen peroxide, know that borax, the crosslinking agent will attatch to that instead of the fluid. Also, I need to check the chemistry on the glue, but the guar gum thing won't reinforce the current fluid's cohesion if it doesn't contain hydroxide. I found another thing that will though. I'll have to check it. Interesting discoveries good sir!

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:23 PM   #106
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

I'm glad that you think so! I found them online, but I'm pretty sure that it said that they are available in the store, too. And I'm going for hydrogen peroxide propulsion, so should I put a coating of something on the inside of the flasks so the peroxide acts normally? I think this is it. The journey for the almost-perfect webshooter is almost over

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Old 03-22-2011, 06:25 PM   #107
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

They are a little bigger then you'd think. I ordered like 6 of those 40z flasks and they're too wide. (Just a fair warning.) For The coating, I would recommend Teflon to counteract the adhesive. To save the hydrogen peroxide, try to mix the guar gum and current fluid with the borax, create the polymer and THEN add the hydrogen peroxide (make sure to evaporate it a bit). Then pour that into the flask and add the water/yeast mix. That should still create rapid oxidation. As for myself, I am going to go the CO2 route for an added amount of pressure that can be regulated. I just bought an adapter for co2 cartridges and I have 25 12gs and 1 16g. Now if I get a connector tube, I can build a prototype. (those are cheap too) They are coming close to a reality! ^^

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Old 03-22-2011, 07:02 PM   #108
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

I found a video clip that reveals alot about the webshooters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7WRlxrlM7k 5:41 - 6:12

It reveals the size of cartridges, the cartridge replacement system, the web fluid, and the properties of the fluid.

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:19 PM   #109
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Great find! But it seems to be an electronic mechanism turning the cartridge wheel. Something we can chat about as soon as our prototypes are finnished, yah? Seems like a formidable assignment for us.
And thanks for the heads up on the flask stuff. Oh, and I found a 5-pack of 6 ouncers on amazon for $5.20. Pretty good deal, considering most prices.

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:42 PM   #110
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Oh, that's the deal I went for too! Shipping brings it to like 10$ or something like that. If either one of us creates a successful prototype, I have an idea on the turbine spinner that could make web shapes or fibers.

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Old 03-22-2011, 08:52 PM   #111
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

The thinnest flasks for the arms that I can find (though more expensive than the great amazon deal)
http://www.advantagebridal.com/perso...eel-flask.html

http://www.eflasks.com/vf1135.html

http://www.amazon.com/Oz-Stainless-S.../dp/B000E1CBGQ

Also, if you want even smaller cartridges and you have sheet metal to reinforce it, You could use a metal lighter case.

http://www.kalanlp.com/vmchk/Lighter...Lighters/LZ521

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:16 PM   #112
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Cool I'm curious as to how the lighter box would work.......... For now I'll just stick with the amazon deal. It's actually really convenient, considering what we are making and how many we need. Anyway, what is your idea for the spinneret nozzle? I might even have time to pick the parts up for that, too.

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Old 03-22-2011, 09:30 PM   #113
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

It's just an idea for a small metal box (but that's only if reinforced). That one has to have parts that they made. A thick hollow needle with a disk that has holes in it that is attached to the bottom of the needle. At the top of the needle, use a mesh. Make a small turbine that has a hollow center so that it fits onto the needle. The fluid will be forced through the disk going through both the turbine and mesh covered needle. The turbine will send out strands that wrap around the middle cords.

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Old 03-23-2011, 04:55 PM   #114
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

I have been following this discussion for around a month and I must say I have found it incredibly intruiging, keep up the good work! I'm really, very interested to see how the web shooters and fluid formula work out(I've never been too interested in chemistry till now, but as I said this is very intruiging).

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Old 03-23-2011, 06:26 PM   #115
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Well, I just tried to test a batch of fluid and it was a HORRIBLE FAIL. When you make the styrofoam blob, is it supposed to be like silly putty, almost? At least that kind of consistancy. Or is it supposed to be a near-liquid? And am I supposed to make all the components at the same time, or is it ok if they are not? Just some last checks as my shooter creation/ testing nears..........................

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Old 03-23-2011, 08:20 PM   #116
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

First off, welcome to the forum hobbitbox! I'm glad to hear that you like chemistry a little bit more! If you have any ideas just let everyone know!

Now JMA610, Describe what was wrong. The styrofoam should be a putty but if it is thick (as in hard to stir), you didn't use enough acetone. What I do, to make sure it has the right consistency is fill up a glass(a 1/8 fill) with acetone and put pieces of styrofoam into it at a time. Do this and it should be the right consistency. Then pour the contact cement into the jar and add the styrofoam and mix. It should be a low viscosity liquid by the end but an amber liquid nonetheless.

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Old 03-23-2011, 09:00 PM   #117
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Yah, it was kinda hard to stir, and liked to keep its shape in the jar instead of freeflowing. I'll keep that in mind when I make my nezt batch, but I just found out I have to wait until NEXT weekend to use the metalworking tools. So that gives us more time to tweak and configure. And by let it evaporate a bit (refering to the hydrogen peroxide), do you mean after I put it in the fluid, or before? And if you want to make yours rotating like the one in the video, just do a seperate cuff on top of the original, rail it in, and add a wall at one area for a spring to push the cartridges to after one is ejected, allowind more continous web shooting.

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Old 03-23-2011, 09:17 PM   #118
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Evaporate the hydrogen peroxide before you put in the formula. (I haven't tested that yet, so I don't know yet what the consistency should be. I'm not going for the rotating cuff, though. I was showing mostly what one cartridge of webbing can do in the cartoon. It's the first time we saw how much webbing one cartridge can hold. I created a whole new design for the co2. Let's see how that works.

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Old 03-23-2011, 09:20 PM   #119
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Hey guys, this is my first post on this forum, but I've been checking up every day for the past month. I've had this page bookmarked since I learned of it's existence. I won't be of much help when it comes to chemistry, as I'm in the 8th Grade, but I have been very intrigued by the tests you have been performing. Would I be correct White widow, if I said that you have created and tested a working fluid? With the advice you've been giving to JMA610, is it safe to assume you have tested this yourself? I would love to buy a prototype once you complete one. Any estimate on how much a shooter and the materials for the fluid would cost?

~T-Pott

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Old 03-24-2011, 05:52 AM   #120
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Welcome T-pott to the forums. I have created a liquid that has porperties of peter's webs, but I'm missing a key component for this formula. It is missing tensile strength. I also, need to do a pressure test, but I need to buy a stronger container. If the flask goes south, it may cause injury. One thing I would like to mention to everyone is that we do not have a shooter yet. If we do create one, you can buy one, but until that happens, don't count the chickens before they hatch. There is still lots of testing that needs to be done, even if we get the fluid to fire correctly.

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Old 03-24-2011, 02:36 PM   #121
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Right, but if I were to reenforce the flasks with sheet metal, I may increase its ability to withstand pressure enough to contain the fluid at a constant pressure.

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Old 03-24-2011, 03:08 PM   #122
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White_widow View Post
I found a video clip that reveals alot about the webshooters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7WRlxrlM7k 5:41 - 6:12

It reveals the size of cartridges, the cartridge replacement system, the web fluid, and the properties of the fluid.
Okay, I just did a quick bit of math using this clip.

Given peter's height is: 5'10"

(height of the cell and radius) 1.8X= 10'5" 65in
(the tiles from door to wall) 3x units = 17'6" 210 inch
cartridge: 4x2x1/2

The surface area of the cell is about 27851.8 inches squared. This would be assuming the wall of webbing is around one inch thick which could be stretching it a bit (no pun intended) leading to 27851.8 inches cubed

The cartridge has a volume of 4 inches cubed (including the extra plating to hold pressure).

This means that ONE cartridge should hold 27851.8 inches cubed of material inside of it. This must mean that peter must have

1.)compressed a large amount of fluid.
2.) added a strong surfactant.

The fluid expanded by a multiplicative factor of around 7000.

0.o I don't know how he does it. My best guess is that he uses a high expansion foam and compresses the fluid to about a 1/7 (1/10 for good measure) to 1/35 of it's original size, but filling the same space in the cartridge. That should give it a LARGE amount of pressure, and would support the turbine hypothsis assuming that the fluid by itself was way stronger than steel and highly elastic.


Last edited by White_widow; 03-24-2011 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:09 PM   #123
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMA610 View Post
Right, but if I were to reenforce the flasks with sheet metal, I may increase its ability to withstand pressure enough to contain the fluid at a constant pressure.
Yup. the flask is weakest around the 90 degree edges.

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Old 03-24-2011, 07:46 PM   #124
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Wow! You're good. So basically Peter compresses it to 1/7 or 1/10 to 1/35 of the actual size of the fluid, allowing him to have WAY more webbing than we thought. If I am right, it is almost like (using as an example) the effect of baking soda and vinegar, how it is a small amount of liquid and is mixed with a propellent to expand and project (if contained), increased by......... well, alot. Are you planning on trying to figure this out? If so, I want to help in any way I possibly can.

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Old 03-24-2011, 07:58 PM   #125
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Default Re: How to make the spiderman web shooters.

Thank you. I already figured out what to add to the formula for the expansion. What I still need to figure out is how to add tensile strength to it. I found a material that is stronger then steel, easy to make, and proven to create materials in polymers, much, MUCH stronger. I need to figure out how to make an oxygen bond between neoprene and polystyrene. It is dissolvible in acetone (which I found out will evaporate in pressure).

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