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Old 11-06-2010, 05:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

The only way I see Bruce quitting is for if he sees a hope in having a normal life. I think calling it "for a girl" is selling it short. In all of the movies except for Batman, Batman & Robin and Batman Begins he has hopes of having a normal life and is willing to sacrifice the cape for it. I think its a good and believable reason for him to do so

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Old 11-06-2010, 01:18 PM   #27
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

If Nolan's movies with their solid faithfulness aren't Batman movies, what the hell are Burton's movies? Give me an adjective here, because I can't think of one.

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Old 11-06-2010, 03:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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Originally Posted by returntovoid View Post
Well, being Batman is much more than just a mere job for him and quitting would be not being himself. Fighting crime as Batman is way for him to deal with the trauma of his parents death and if he didn't become Batman, he'd probably being abusing himself with drugs/alcohol.

I have no problem with writers trying to humanize Batman but I just think there are more compelling ways than his quitting/unnecessary guilt.
He hasn't reached that point yet.

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Old 11-06-2010, 05:52 PM   #29
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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sure nolan has the same things the older ones had, a cool car, a rubber suit, villians with makeup, but they really lack something, especially TDK. the atmosphere and the execution and look of the characters and world just doesnt strike me as batman. its too common/average looking. besides the narrows in BB, gotham city looks like any old city. sure, in the comics they tend to look i guess somewhat modernized but even then the city always looks darker, grimmer, lots of statues and gargoyles, somewhat, well, gothic looking. the tumbler is, well...not a batmobile, or a sorry excuse for one. the villians were rather plain and boring looking, especiallt scarecrow, and they are almost never given enough screentime, save for the joker in TDK but thats because hes the joker. but scarecrow and ras al guhl were almost non existant through most of BB. the realism for me just killed the series, and i just wanted to know if anyone felt like this as well.

i guess im just not a fan of nolan. hes all big now cuz of TDK but really he hasnt done anything that i would watch. tim burton on the other hand....is more my style. and no im not a goth kid, the complete opposite actually. but his batman films were just more batman, from gotham, to the batmobile/batsuit, to the music, the atmosphere, the character representations. hell i even liked batman forever better. the new films also lost the fun of the original films. what happened exactly? now they have to make everything realistic. i dont get it. i hate batman and robin because it prompted the studio to go in not a 180, but a total 360 from what the films used to be. just saddens me.
Honestly, my favorite Batman aesthetic is the back and forth between gritty urban decay and international adventuring that was largely the style for Batman comics in the 90s, and that's what the Nolan films seem to capture. So, I'm not bothered.

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Old 11-06-2010, 08:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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If Nolan's movies with their solid faithfulness aren't Batman movies, what the hell are Burton's movies? Give me an adjective here, because I can't think of one.
What is this solid link between faithfulness and quality?

Btw, I do think Nolan's movies are Batman movies. Although I don't think much of Batman Begins I loved TDK.

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Old 11-06-2010, 10:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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What is this solid link between faithfulness and quality?
I love the Burton movies (returns especially). But they are not "faithful" really.

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Old 11-06-2010, 11:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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I love the Burton movies (returns especially). But they are not "faithful" really.
... yes... and?...

I mean, let's not start writing a list on Nolan's unfaithfulness, okay? We're both fans and we know what we're talking about.

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Old 11-06-2010, 11:43 PM   #33
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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.. yes... and?...
Have you read the title of this topic?

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Old 11-09-2010, 06:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

The Nolan Batman films aren't perfect, but I'm glad we finally have a director knows how to use character development, something gravely missing from the Burton films (shoot, I even think Schumacher was better than Burton in this area). The motivation behind Batman or Gordon was missing from Burton films. What was Penguin's motivation in Batman Returns? What was Catwoman's motivation? What did she want to accomplish? Why would Gordon trust Batman in Batman 89, especially when he saw Batman drop a man into a bucket of acid, shoot bullets at a parade of people, etc? Batman seemed awefully bored and nonchalant at killing the villains (strapping a bomb to a guy's chest and walking off,..is this The Punisher?) Christopher Walken's character dies at the end (whom Batman doesn't witness doing anything villainy at this point) at Batman doesn't care. Batman doesn't grow in Returns.

Burton films had atmosphere and cinematics, but that can't replace a good story and character development.

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Old 11-10-2010, 05:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

Both Nolan and Burton Batman films are of equal quality and same amount of faithfulness/unfaithfulness but it's just all about preference on what's better. It's my dream job to be a filmmaker but when I will make a film, I'll will make it in a formalistic style of filmmaking because of genres like Film-noir and German Expressionism hence why I prefer Burton's Batman films.

Now TDK is a brilliant film but it fits into the realist style of filmmaking that I'm not a fan of, I liked Begins more because it had classical style of filmmaking that was a balance between the realist and the formalist style. Both Nolan and Burton are visionary auteur directors that have their own different unique style of quality films. As long as a visionary auteur is directing the Batman films with quality not some hack like Schumacher, the Batman franchise is in good hands.

Batman is a character that's been there for 75+years and can be interpreted in multitude of ways that are all valid to some period of the comics, whether you like a particular period is all left to you. You have the Burton/Keaton Batman, Nolan/Bale Batman, Joel Schumacher Batman, three different Frank Miller Batman's, O'Neil/Adams Batman, Finger/Kane Batman, ABC/Adam West Batman, Loeb/Sale Batman, Dini/Timm Batman etc.

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Old 11-10-2010, 05:52 AM   #36
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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Originally Posted by SentinelMind View Post
The Nolan Batman films aren't perfect, but I'm glad we finally have a director knows how to use character development, something gravely missing from the Burton films
Im gonna have to very strongly disagree with Sentinel Mind here. I thought it was the characters even more so than the great vibe and art direction that made Burton's movies, especially Batman Returns, with which many, as well as the press, seem to agree. Just because something isnt spelled out doesnt mean it isnt there. Burton's Batman was the most complex because he was partially insane and stayed in the shadow psychologically. Batman was approached as the operatic, tragic character, like Phantom of the Opera. Phantom was a hurt shadowy person, yet it absolutely didnt mean that he wasnt developed.

Burton: This guy wants to remain as hidden as possible, and in the shadows as possible, and unrevealing about himself as possible, so all of those things - you know, he’s not gonna eat up screen time by these big speeches and doing dancing around the Batcave
Again, I felt less is more with him in the sense of who he is. (…) Michael’s eyes - it goes back to kind of like silent movie acting. I like when people sort of just look. It’s a movie so you kinda get more between the lines then you do [from] the actual lines (…) There's a loneliness to that character and witheldness. He’s a character that is sad and is private
Even when hes standing there looking there's an electricity about him.


Where there was a hint of Batman's disturbing duality in the 1989 film, that agitation is enlarged for the sequel and pitted against Catwoman as his ideal mate, both psychotically and sartorially (Columbus Dispatch, June 1992)

Bruce is a solitary man, tarnished by internal demons. We never get to understand him or know him. Keaton's Wayne was the most interesting and likeable thing for me in Burton;s movies so much so that I started renting movies with Keaton to see more of this character. However, I underestimated Keaton's talents and he played a very different character in every movie, even when playing hurt and angry cop in One Good Cop (1991)

Anyway


Quote:
(shoot, I even think Schumacher was better than Burton in this area).
I dont see how when he didnt even intend to. He was always very vocal about making Batman more comical and not treating the mythology very seriously. One thing Ive got to give him is that, intentionally or not, he did do well with Wayne, truly showing someone still closed inside and clearly in deep depression

Quote:
What was Penguin's motivation in Batman Returns?
I thought it was pretty clear, and it was also a great character element.He was like a dark version of Edward Scissorhands, someone rejected by his own parents and the society and forced to feel and act the certain way. His goal was to kill the happy and loved first borns because he was feeling hurt for being rejected by his own parents and society, while other first borns were happily living with their families - something that life denied him.

The Penguin’s story in Batman Returns is unbearably sad. Who among us has not felt discarded and unloved, and has not sought revenge on the world to soothe our wounded souls (comicsbeat.com)

Quote:
What was Catwoman's motivation? What did she want to accomplish?
She was deeply hurt inside before the accident, and even more fractured inside after - her costume was suppose to poetically reflect her personallity. She hides her pain by forcing herself to think that shes tough and doesnt care, but then we see in the movie that she finally snaps and wants to kill and revenge on Shreck for everything bad that happened to her in her life. Even the first time out as Catwoman she thrashed his store. The motivation was always a slow revenge

Quote:
Why would Gordon trust Batman in Batman 89, especially when he saw Batman drop a man into a bucket of acid, shoot bullets at a parade of people, etc?
Theres no place in the first movie where he would trust him. And by Batman Returns, Batman had more than proven himself and who knows what happened in between aside from him saving the city

Quote:
Batman seemed awefully bored and nonchalant at killing the villains (strapping a bomb to a guy's chest and walking off,..is this The Punisher?)
And again, for me thats the best take on the character. He is ruthless and he has an insane side hidden deep inside of him. He is like the character from silent movies, intimidating and portraying with his eyes. Besides, thats consistent with the original, pre-Robin portrayal of Batman in Detective Comics

Quote:
Christopher Walken's character dies at the end (whom Batman doesn't witness doing anything villainy at this point) at Batman doesn't care.
He knew he worked with Penguin. He knew he hurt Selina. He knew hes realy a mobster who worked and manipulated Penguin and just tried to kill Wayne?Batman in cold blood without any emotions.

Quote:
Batman doesn't grow in Returns.
??He does. He changes a lot over the course of the movie. In the first movie we saw him constantly hurting and rejecting Vicky. In Returns, for the first time he sees hope in having a life and sees a fellow tarnished soul - Frankenstein finds his Bride. He starts as the same, mysterious character sitting in the dark and then we see him really trying to patch things up with Selina, have a life. He sees her as a fellow tarnished soul who is hurting inside like he does, someone who is also a torn apart outsider. "we can go home...together. Selina...don't you see? We're the same. Split. Wrecked in the center". He never opened before, and never got sidetracked by thoughts of semi normal life

Quote:
Burton films had atmosphere and cinematics, but that can't replace a good story and character development.
And again, for me its the sad story of Returns and the characters that are just as good as the Bizzare Gothic surroundings and feel. Forever and B&R were by intentions straight forward comic book onscreen. Nolan of course does great with the characters too, but in a different way. His characters are normal, real, not Gothic in the poetic sense

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Old 11-11-2010, 12:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

^Great counter debate, jamesCameronOnl.

Both Nolan and Burton are great at character developement and motives in their own different ways.

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Old 11-11-2010, 06:19 PM   #38
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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Im gonna have to very strongly disagree with Sentinel Mind here. I thought it was the characters even more so than the great vibe and art direction that made Burton's movies, especially Batman Returns, with which many, as well as the press, seem to agree. Just because something isnt spelled out doesnt mean it isnt there. Burton's Batman was the most complex because he was partially insane and stayed in the shadow psychologically. Batman was approached as the operatic, tragic character, like Phantom of the Opera. Phantom was a hurt shadowy person, yet it absolutely didnt mean that he wasnt developed.
I haven't seen Returns in a while, but my memory was that his character remained pretty stagnant. I liked Batman 89 and enjoyed the unraveling of the mystery around Batman...but I think Burton's mistake was keeping him "mysterious" and distant in Batman Returns. If you keep your main character emotionally distant, where else can you take him? I also didn't like the angle where Bruce Wayne considered dropping the mantle as Batman is if Catwoman considered getting in a relationship with him. That doesn't seem to fit Batman's character...makes him seem more like a vindictive emo nerd than a caped crusader. He made him too similar to the villains to make me care about him.

Quote:
Burton: This guy wants to remain as hidden as possible, and in the shadows as possible, and unrevealing about himself as possible, so all of those things - you know, he’s not gonna eat up screen time by these big speeches and doing dancing around the Batcave
Again, I felt less is more with him in the sense of who he is. (…) Michael’s eyes - it goes back to kind of like silent movie acting. I like when people sort of just look. It’s a movie so you kinda get more between the lines then you do [from] the actual lines (…) There's a loneliness to that character and witheldness. He’s a character that is sad and is private
Even when hes standing there looking there's an electricity about him.
I think Burton was making a movie for himself.....Batman and Penguin <> Edwards Scizzorhands. I'm not trying to knock his approach, but I agree with Roger Ebert, I don't think Burton understood or cared to understand Batman and was trying to create a gothic emo fantasy film as opposed to a superhero film.


Where there was a hint of Batman's disturbing duality in the 1989 film, that agitation is enlarged for the sequel and pitted against Catwoman as his ideal mate, both psychotically and sartorially (Columbus Dispatch, June 1992)

Bruce is a solitary man, tarnished by internal demons. We never get to understand him or know him. Keaton's Wayne was the most interesting and likeable thing for me in Burton;s movies so much so that I started renting movies with Keaton to see more of this character. However, I underestimated Keaton's talents and he played a very different character in every movie, even when playing hurt and angry cop in One Good Cop (1991)

Anyway



Quote:
I dont see how when he didnt even intend to. He was always very vocal about making Batman more comical and not treating the mythology very seriously. One thing Ive got to give him is that, intentionally or not, he did do well with Wayne, truly showing someone still closed inside and clearly in deep depression
I actually think Schumacher and Kilmer developed Bruce Wayne's pyschosis in Batman Forever in decent manner. I think he did a moderately good job at making Bruce act as an strict overprotective father figure in Batman & Robin. I think The Ridder's motivation for turning into a villain was somewhat reasonable for the type of film it was. I didn't feel the same way about The Penguin or Catwoman. I felt Burton forced them to have a weird amorphous motivation in order to become a larger threat to Gotham.

Quote:
I thought it was pretty clear, and it was also a great character element.He was like a dark version of Edward Scissorhands, someone rejected by his own parents and the society and forced to feel and act the certain way. His goal was to kill the happy and loved first borns because he was feeling hurt for being rejected by his own parents and society, while other first borns were happily living with their families - something that life denied him.



The Penguin’s story in Batman Returns is unbearably sad. Who among us has not felt discarded and unloved, and has not sought revenge on the world to soothe our wounded souls (comicsbeat.com)
Not me. It'd make sense for him to resent his parents...but leaping from that to desiring to murder Gotham's first born seems ridiculous and long stretch..and a poorly written excuse to make him a real threat in the film. It doesn't even make sense that The Penguin would even have the capability of accomplish this ridiculously unsatisfying task.

Quote:
She was deeply hurt inside before the accident, and even more fractured inside after - her costume was suppose to poetically reflect her personallity. She hides her pain by forcing herself to think that shes tough and doesnt care, but then we see in the movie that she finally snaps and wants to kill and revenge on Shreck for everything bad that happened to her in her life. Even the first time out as Catwoman she thrashed his store. The motivation was always a slow revenge
Ok, I'll accept she wanted revenge against Shreck.


Quote:
Theres no place in the first movie where he would trust him. And by Batman Returns, Batman had more than proven himself and who knows what happened in between aside from him saving the city
At the end of the Batman 89, Gordon and the mayor practically give Batman a key to the city. For all they knew, Batman could have been a rival mob boss of the Joker killing him for personal gain....or some nut who wants to kill the man who murdered his parents instead of allowing him to have a fair trial. I just felt Batman's interaction with Gordon was cartoonish in the Burton films. Plus, look at the mayhem Batman does in Batman Returns, ...straps a bomb to a guy's chest....flame thrower. There's no reason for Gordon to trust a man like Batman. It was good for what it was....film depiction of a Batman cartoon.

I respect the two films (although not a big fan of Batman Returns), and I won't knock someone for enjoying them, but I just want to express some disappointment with those 2 film's limitations and satisfaction Nolan had taken the franchise in a different direction.


Last edited by SentinelMind; 11-11-2010 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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I haven't seen Returns in a while, but my memory was that his character remained pretty stagnant. I liked Batman 89 and enjoyed the unraveling of the mystery around Batman...but I think Burton's mistake was keeping him "mysterious" and distant in Batman Returns. If you keep your main character emotionally distant, where else can you take him?
I thought taking him out of the shadows would be the worst thing Burton could do and for me he would ruin the entire series and character. As he said, he modeled Batman after Phantom of the Opera. Once you get to know Dracula and Phantom, iot takes away ALL fun and mystery about the character. This is why I liked this Batman so much, because he was distant, dark, he was the side character and that made him that much more interesting because we were looking at him from other character's' perspective


Quote:
I also didn't like the angle where Bruce Wayne considered dropping the mantle as Batman is if Catwoman considered getting in a relationship with him. That doesn't seem to fit Batman's character...makes him seem more like a vindictive emo nerd than a caped crusader. He made him too similar to the villains to make me care about him.
But he didnt wanna drop everything because he had hots for her like in Forever or TDK. Its a completely different and very fitting scenario. This Bruce is a loner all his life and takes vengeance on criminals out of pain and lust for revenge and hatred for them. He develops an insane split personality. And then, after all these years, he meets someone who is hurting as much as he does inside, and also fractured, someone who shares the pain. This is exactly the same thing as with Frankenstein monster - he was an outsider who was hurtin and all he wanted was just one person in the world who understood him, one person like him. And Selina WAS this Bride of Frankenstein. A fellow, torn up soul who was also just as unstable and psycho as he was


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I think Burton was making a movie for himself.....Batman and Penguin <> Edwards Scizzorhands.
Thats true, those characters are very much alike. Theyre both hurting outsiders and all that, but for me it made Batman that much more interesting than just a Punisher kind of a guy or Sherlock Holmes in a cape. I always saw BAtman was very dark, and this Gothic, Operatic approach worked phenomenal. Plus, this kind of approach can touch the audience emotionally very well and play off well on the characters. Its an Opera, and was partially designed to be - thats why theres music playing almost the entire time in the movie, because they wanted this movie to be like Opera

Quote:
I'm not trying to knock his approach, but I agree with Roger Ebert, I don't think Burton understood or cared to understand Batman and was trying to create a gothic emo fantasy film as opposed to a superhero film
.

As I always say, I think the fact that Burton and Nolan didnt know squat about comic books and Batman helped a lot because they didnt bring a fanboy approach and just did their own thing in their own style, supported partially by the writers who as oppose to them were Batman geeks and specs


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I actually think Schumacher and Kilmer developed Bruce Wayne's pyschosis in Batman Forever in decent manner.
I think he did fairly well as that Kilmer looked like someone with the biggest depression in history. And thats the Batman I like the most but as oppose to Keaton's Bruce who was hiding his depression when in company, being depressed and down is ALL Kilmer did

Quote:
I think he did a moderately good job at making Bruce act as an strict overprotective father figure in Batman & Robin.
The vibe I got was a regular, office working father and his buddy bud teen son. And thats the problem - there was no Batman, at all. After all, Clooney never even changed the voice while in suit and never even acted differently - just Bruce/Buddy Dad in the suit, and that looked comical

Quote:
I think The Ridder's motivation for turning into a villain was somewhat reasonable for the type of film it was. I didn't feel the same way about The Penguin or Catwoman. I felt Burton forced them to have a weird amorphous motivation in order to become a larger threat to Gotham.
Riddler's motivation was good, but so was Catwoman's and Penguin's. Again, Selina was pushed around by everyone all her life. When she was thrown out by bullying , male chauvinist boss she snapped and saw every person that ever did something to her in him. He was an embodiment of every bad, bullying guy/person

Penguin hated the world out of jealousy, seeing happy families, angry that he was denied it. Thats a very common thing - ugly girls hating the most popular, lonely man turning into raping psychos because they had no girls.


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Not me. It'd make sense for him to resent his parents...but leaping from that to desiring to murder Gotham's first born seems ridiculous and long stretch.
.

Explained above

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It doesn't even make sense that The Penguin would even have the capability of accomplish this ridiculously unsatisfying task.
If Batman wouldnt stop him, hed have all the children floating in the sewers


Quote:
At the end of the Batman 89, Gordon and the mayor practically give Batman a key to the city. For all they knew, Batman could have been a rival mob boss of the Joker killing him for personal gain....or some nut who wants to kill the man who murdered his parents instead of allowing him to have a fair trial.
And yet by that time Batman saved millions of lives..TWICE. First decoding the poison, then saving citizens from joker's gas poisoning, and then after all killing Joker. I think thats more than enough to at least give him a chance. And where did they go from that is up to everyone - we dont know how many more times Batman saved the city between B89 and BR

Quote:
I just felt Batman's interaction with Gordon was cartoonish in the Burton films.
Their relationship in Burton;s movies is virtually non existant or not shown onscreen, which is a good thing because it works for the vampire/Phantom approach of Batman. The more this Batman talks the more mystery and darkness it takes from him, so that works for me.

Quote:
Plus, look at the mayhem Batman does in Batman Returns, ...straps a bomb to a guy's chest....flame thrower. There's no reason for Gordon to trust a man like Batman.
Batman was always known to go overboard. Look what he did to Joker in TDK in the interrogation room. Not to mention he was also always shaky with Gordon and Gordon couldnt really predict what he would do, even during the action with the hostages - yet he still trusted or hoped for him to do the right thing. Cops shoot armed criminals all the time, no different than Batman using different weapons to kill armed criminals when he doesnt have firearms


Quote:
I respect the two films (although not a big fan of Batman Returns), and I won't knock someone for enjoying them, but I just want to express some disappointment with those 2 film's limitations and satisfaction Nolan had taken the franchise in a different direction.
I love both. While overall I would give the edge to Burton for the Gothic and operatic portrayal of Batman and his world (personal preference plus Neal Adams' costume), the realism in Nolan's movies works surprisingly well and he still manages to create great characters and believable but interesting stories, even without the magic touch of fantasy. Again, apples and oranges. One approach is like Dark Disney tale (Burton), one like Power Rangers cartoon (Schumacher) and one like crime action movie (Nolan) - totally different flavors

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Old 11-13-2010, 04:29 AM   #40
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

Btw, for those who think a killer Batman is an issue - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...er-batman.html

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Old 11-13-2010, 05:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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Btw, for those who think a killer Batman is an issue - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...er-batman.html
Brilliant blog post.

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Old 11-13-2010, 09:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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Btw, for those who think a killer Batman is an issue - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...er-batman.html
You can understand why people take issue with that. Killer Batman has not been used since the 40's. Batman has predominantly been a moral vigilante who won't take a life needlessly.

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Old 11-13-2010, 09:26 AM   #43
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

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You can understand why people take issue with that. Killer Batman has not been used since the 40's. Batman has predominantly been a moral vigilante who won't take a life needlessly.
Sure I understand if one was used to the other take on the character, BUT
- many fans seem to cheer when Goyer and Nolan mention going back to roots so I scratch my head when the same people criticize it when its not done by Nolan. I never liked bias
-Some people bark at Burton as if he invented a killer Batman

My preference? I dont really care either way. I easily see Batman killing like Punisher, I mean why not, he hates criminals. I bought it with Punisher, I buy it with Batman. On the other hand I grew up with the moral Batman naturally and it makes for an interesting character element and story device. So basically what Im saying is that I dont really have a preference. I like both

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Old 11-15-2010, 01:43 AM   #44
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

I basically like different interpretations of the character. Burton and Nolan both made compelling films , there's Batman the animated series , and even the 60s show can be fun.
Batman is one of the rare characters that can be tinkered with but the basic premise has to be the same. The only time I felt he was really bastardized was in Batman and Robin but the real problem was that it was a supposed sequel to Batman(89)
I think Nolan so far has done the best in representing Batman on film but part of me wants it to go back towards the other direction. I want to be able to see Mr Freeze , Penguin etc but not have it overly campy.

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Old 11-15-2010, 02:10 AM   #45
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

I'm a bit confused by the OP's point.

Are you saying it's 'missing something' because it's not enough like the previous interpretation?

What would be the point in making a movie that completely emulated the style of the previous director *cough Superman Returns cough*?

The whole point is taking another part of the Batman comics, and visualising that within the directors own unique style. That's why I like BB and TDK so much. Nolan wasn't afraid to tell a story that hadn't been told before (unlike Singer, who just tryed to piggy back off the success of the previous films, and failed miserably).

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Old 11-15-2010, 03:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl View Post
Sure I understand if one was used to the other take on the character, BUT
- many fans seem to cheer when Goyer and Nolan mention going back to roots so I scratch my head when the same people criticize it when its not done by Nolan. I never liked bias
-Some people bark at Burton as if he invented a killer Batman

My preference? I dont really care either way. I easily see Batman killing like Punisher, I mean why not, he hates criminals. I bought it with Punisher, I buy it with Batman. On the other hand I grew up with the moral Batman naturally and it makes for an interesting character element and story device. So basically what Im saying is that I dont really have a preference. I like both
Batman doesn't kill he hasn't since 1939. and he is in no way shape or form comparable to The Punisher.

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Old 11-15-2010, 03:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

It's unfair when some people say that a particular interpretation of Batman is not valid. He's a character that's been there for 75+goddamn years with dozens of different interpretations by different artists. Whether you like a particular interpretation or not, it's all up to the reader or audience.

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Old 11-15-2010, 04:04 AM   #48
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It's unfair when some people say that a particular interpretation of Batman is not valid. He's a character that's been there for 75+goddamn years with dozens of different interpretations by different artists. Whether you like a particular interpretation or not, it's all up to the reader or audience.
I agree, but when someone says Batman killing is ok is where I draw the line. I've read the first two years of Batman in Detective Comics and he only killed or expressed no remorse in the death of villians when he was still The Bat-Man. some people seem to think he killed people for a long time back in the day... when it was actually only a few issues in his first year of publication.


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Old 11-15-2010, 01:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

The Nolan films definitely leave something to be desired. I say that the execution of the physical sets and overall look is good. The characters appearances need to be changed and the story in TDK certainly need to be better.

Batman 89 was a perfect film. The first 45 minutes of Batman Returns is good. The giant rubber duckie on wheels combined with the batmobile sabotage sequence (Penguin in a kiddie ride version of the Batmobile) were very very weak and the film doesn't hold up well.

Begins was a solid film, though less time should have been spent in Asia and more time in Gotham (didn't really explore the first night out very well.)

The Dark Knight... the Two Face element was not needed. The entire boat-bomb sequence was not needed. Bale was good. Didn't like the sonar lenses. Ledger's Joker was impressive, but not definitive. Harvey was a good edition, but they should have saved Two-face for next time.

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Old 11-15-2010, 01:43 PM   #50
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Default Re: Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

One thing that I definitely miss in Nolan movies is great Batman shots. Begins had barely one or two that lasted less than 2 seconds. I mean visually the first Batman shot in B89 - with Batman spreading his wings over the two thugs - was better than anything Nolan.

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