Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

[ALP]

Yeah if you want to apply logic to where it doesn't need to be that is a-okay.

Next I want to know how Penguin came up from the sewer with the mayor's baby without his rubber duck cracking through the cement. Do tell.

[Elevator Man]

Originally Posted by ALP

Yeah if you want to apply logic to where it doesn't need to be that is a-okay.

Next I want to know how Penguin came up from the sewer with the mayor's baby without his rubber duck cracking through the cement. Do tell.

Can we get back on topic please. Thank you.

[ALP]

This is very much an extension of the OP's ideas and thoughts.

He specifically stated he doesn't consider Nolan's movies Batman movies compared to the first three films. He said it had to do with the realism and logic of the films. So we are discussing whether or not the previous films have just as much or less logic and realism.

Oh and here is the quote.

"We tried to take the edge off of it being gruesome by making them real in their own context. We did a snake in Beetlejuice which just didn't work so I always had my own personal set of standards of what I thought was believable in this world and what didn't quite make it. It (creating our own logic) worked in Beetlejuice, and I continued that philosophy in Batman, which was a mistake. It disturbed people. In Batman I always loved that whole thing of The Joker pulling out a gun and shooting the Batplane down. But again it's perception. I was doing a giant big-budget movie and people expect a certain kind of thing with that. So while that concept works in Beetlejuice and Pee Wee, it doesn't necessarily work when people perceive the movie as a big blockbuster." - Tim Burton, Burton on Burton, page 64.

[Bat-Mite]

Originally Posted by ALP

He specifically stated he doesn't consider Nolan's movies Batman movies compared to the first three films. He said it had to do with the realism and logic of the films. So we are discussing whether or not the previous films have just as much or less logic and realism.

Yes. The topic creator could have saved himself a lot of typing by saying, "I like Burton and hate Nolan" and could have given this topic the title, "Another Burton vs. Nolan topic" and he probably would have received the same general results. He's also been noticeably absent from the topic since his original post, leading me to believe that he was just trying to get a rise out of people.

[ALP]

But he actually said he liked Schumacher's Batman more than Nolan's too!

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by Bat-Mite

Yes. The topic creator could have saved himself a lot of typing by saying, "I like Burton and hate Nolan" and could have given this topic the title, "Another Burton vs. Nolan topic" and he probably would have received the same general results. He's also been noticeably absent from the topic since his original post, leading me to believe that he was just trying to get a rise out of people.

Well.....the thread starter hasn't logged back on the Hype since he logged off one minute after creating this thread. So He doesn't really care what you guys think about it. And since the creater of this thread is the SECOND user name that another older poster was using to make the thread that he doesn't care about and the older name hasn't even been here since June.....I think discussing the topic is fine but don't even give a second thought to it's creator.

[metalhead_dave]

Originally Posted by The Man

Anyone else think that nolans movies arent really "Batman movies"?

No, both Begins and TDK could easily be six issue arks in the Batman comics, espescially TDK.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by ALP

This is very much an extension of the OP's ideas and thoughts.

He specifically stated he doesn't consider Nolan's movies Batman movies compared to the first three films. He said it had to do with the realism and logic of the films. So we are discussing whether or not the previous films have just as much or less logic and realism.

Oh and here is the quote.

"We tried to take the edge off of it being gruesome by making them real in their own context. We did a snake in Beetlejuice which just didn't work so I always had my own personal set of standards of what I thought was believable in this world and what didn't quite make it. It (creating our own logic) worked in Beetlejuice, and I continued that philosophy in Batman, which was a mistake. It disturbed people. In Batman I always loved that whole thing of The Joker pulling out a gun and shooting the Batplane down. But again it's perception. I was doing a giant big-budget movie and people expect a certain kind of thing with that. So while that concept works in Beetlejuice and Pee Wee, it doesn't necessarily work when people perceive the movie as a big blockbuster." - Tim Burton, Burton on Burton, page 64.

It saddens me that nowadays Burton barely has anything good to say about his Batman movies. I think his early work is extraordinarily brilliant (especially Scissorhands and Returns) and far superior to his most recent work (albeit Todd was great). Anyway, the very important thing in this quote is that Burton is implying that the world in his Bat movies is different than ours

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

It saddens me that nowadays Burton barely has anything good to say about his Batman movies.

I know he doesn't like Batman '89, but I thought he loved Returns?

[ALP]

He still talks about them, only briefly though. When he was on Charlie Rose last year, Mr. Rose tried to get him to talk about the Joker and wanted him to compare Jack to Heath but Burton just sort of avoided it and only said something to the effect of "Different generation, different interpretation." I can understand it being a bit awkward. I mean I doubt Raimi and Maguire are going to readily discuss their Spider-Man when the new movies are out. Just for the respect of what's going on. B/c when you get to discussing them...people want you to compare them.

But I also recently watched Tim Burton's masterclass and when he spoke of Batman'89 it was how there was just a lot of pressure and he had a much better time with Returns but then it was released and the hoopla started over again lol Anyway B'89 feels more rooted in reality than Returns. Returns feels like a completely different world whereas the first feels like a mashup of different periods. I liked Metropolis and Nosferatu, but I must admit I never liked Cabinet.

[El Payaso]

Well, artist are always their own worst critics.

Burton's opinion on his work is very biased by his experience while doing it. B89 was a very hard movie to do, everyone demanding a successful blockbuster, it was Burton's first major movie. Even Nicholson said he was impressed at how easy Burton was taking the production of the film. But whatever he says B89 was a significative movie within the genre. And personally a masterpiece. But then again Nolan's TDK also is.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by ALP

But he actually said he liked Schumacher's Batman more than Nolan's too!

Could be worse. My nose could be gushing blood.

Originally Posted by Joker

I know he doesn't like Batman '89, but I thought he loved Returns?

Yeah he does, but even so everytime he talks about Nolan's movies he puts down his version

[ALP]

Hahaha!


I don't think Burton puts his own bat films down, it's more he just realizes people want different things in different times. Like when Charlie Rose asked him what he thought about the 'darkness' and seriousness of TDK, he sort of just said that audience expectation change and he was only able to pull off a certain amount of darkness in B'89 and that he needed light moments too.

Funny because back when Nolan's films were just coming out, Burton always avoided talking of them. When asked in Hero's complex around 2007 what he thought of Begins, he said he hadn't seen it. Said the same thing about TDK at first. Then Mr Rose was all "C'mon Tim I know you've seen it. It was the biggest movie of the year, don't lie"

Putting their own movies down is what Spielberg does whenever something flops.

[GothamAlleys]

As a side note, I just rewatched TDK 2 days ago for the first time in well over a year (I think TDK is the kind of movie that is one big journey and shouldnt be rewatched too often because it spoils the magic) and I know people are probably tired of hearing that but man, that movie kicked-my-*ss! Out of 4 times Ive seen it, this time I enjoyed it the most

[ALP]

With my favorite movies I have seen them over and over and the magic is never lost. Thus is the magic itself of a brilliant film!

[GothamAlleys]

But its even more fun when you take a long break. Then you cant wait to see it and it feels a bit fresher

[ALP]

I also want to point out that the serious tone of Nolan's films also garner criticism in a way that Burton's films and Schumacher's do not. I mean there are times when Batman Returns is a complete cornfest! But people do not pick apart every little line and detail as they do in Nolan's movies because BB and TDK have a more gritty tonality. There are some lines in Burton's movies that are just as corny as what we find in Batman Begins. But at the same time many people just dismiss Burton's work because it has a tongue in cheek flavor and an awareness that doesn't take itself too seriously. Schumacher and Burton knew they were making 'comic movies'(though lets avoid B&R) while Nolan treats his work more seriously. Nolan gains more acclaim but with his acclaim also comes a great deal of nitpicking.

[GothamAlleys]

That too but moreso because of the fans. Many claim it to be an absolutely perfect movie and I think by now its no secret that those who did the most damage to the movie were the extremist fans. By shoving the 'perfection' of the movie down everyone's throat and claiming absolute reality and seriousness, people tend to focus more on its flaws and one liners

[LykanKomics]

I try to stay out of these type of convos but I think some of you take this wayyyyyyyy to far. But on topic I look at it like some one said. If I can see it being a comic arc then it was good and served it's purpose wheter it's realism went too far or logic comes into play. I honestly can't see a story arc for batman and robin or forever in the store and being like OMG I have to read this. But the other movie gives you that feeling. Just my 2cents playaz. Don't be mad

[funkycrime91]

I'll just put it simply. I've been watching Batman since I was 6 years old, and I like some bending of reality but I liked how Nolan grounded Batman and his universe, personally I applaud it. But to each their own.

[Panthro]

So is there a "Anyone else think that Burton's movies aren't really Batman movies" thread out there somewhere?

[Grayson]

No, they're very Batman.
I think it's one the best interpretations of the Batman mythos to date.
Not just movies either, I mean comics, animated shows, etc.

[GothamAlleys]

Theres no such thing as a "real" batman movie. Batman had many different faces and interpretations and hes open to more. Hes not a definitive character. You can have a dark Kane Batman from Burton's movies and animated show, you can have a campy spoof from the TV show and Schumacher's movies and you can have a crime action movie from Nolan. Theyre all valid

[LuisTX85]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Theres no such thing as a "real" batman movie. Batman had many different faces and interpretations and hes open to more. Hes not a definitive character. You can have a dark Kane Batman from Burton's movies and animated show, you can have a campy spoof from the TV show and Schumacher's movies and you can have a crime action movie from Nolan. Theyre all valid

I agree with you 100%!

[TheBat812]

Originally Posted by theman

sure nolan has the same things the older ones had, a cool car, a rubber suit, villians with makeup, but they really lack something, especially TDK. the atmosphere and the execution and look of the characters and world just doesnt strike me as batman. its too common/average looking. besides the narrows in BB, gotham city looks like any old city. sure, in the comics they tend to look i guess somewhat modernized but even then the city always looks darker, grimmer, lots of statues and gargoyles, somewhat, well, gothic looking. the tumbler is, well...not a batmobile, or a sorry excuse for one. the villians were rather plain and boring looking, especiallt scarecrow, and they are almost never given enough screentime, save for the joker in TDK but thats because hes the joker. but scarecrow and ras al guhl were almost non existant through most of BB. the realism for me just killed the series, and i just wanted to know if anyone felt like this as well.

i guess im just not a fan of nolan. hes all big now cuz of TDK but really he hasnt done anything that i would watch. tim burton on the other hand....is more my style. and no im not a goth kid, the complete opposite actually. but his batman films were just more batman, from gotham, to the batmobile/batsuit, to the music, the atmosphere, the character representations. hell i even liked batman forever better. the new films also lost the fun of the original films. what happened exactly? now they have to make everything realistic. i dont get it. i hate batman and robin because it prompted the studio to go in not a 180, but a total 360 from what the films used to be. just saddens me.

Nolan is one of this current generation of filmmakers best. They definitely are Batman movies, just like Burton's were Batman movies, but similarly they're unique adaptations and interpretations - just like every comic ever has been.