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Old 12-26-2010, 10:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Its funny that in the 80s Don Bluth on top and Disney was struggling and then in the 90s it turned upside down.

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:09 PM   #27
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Look at how miserable Tim Burton was.
LOL, his face is just kinda like that, though.

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:12 PM   #28
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Its funny that in the 80s Don Bluth on top and Disney was struggling and then in the 90s it turned upside down.
I loved me some Don Bluth. It's a shame his movies died out.

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:16 PM   #29
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LOL, his face is just kinda like that, though.
Eh, good point.

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Beauty and the beast is still my favourite of that era
yes.... even above lion king

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:39 PM   #31
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One of the things that never re-emerged in the so called Disney Renaissance was the excellence in animation, the quality of the animators work is sub par to the original Disney animators. Sure the films in the 90's were entertaining, but from standard of artistic merit they surely lacked. One of things Eisner said at the time, in terms of quality in animation, is that general audience wouldn't know the difference if it's good animation or not, so why spend the money?

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Old 12-26-2010, 10:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Love, love, love it. I think I still know most of the words to the soundtracks, even! Most people in my life know that I am a big 2-D animated Disney fan...I got 7 more movies to add to my collection this Christmas The main one out of my favorites that I still need on dvd is Aladdin.

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Old 12-26-2010, 11:17 PM   #33
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One of the things that never re-emerged in the so called Disney Renaissance was the excellence in animation, the quality of the animators work is sub par to the original Disney animators. Sure the films in the 90's were entertaining, but from standard of artistic merit they surely lacked. One of things Eisner said at the time, in terms of quality in animation, is that general audience wouldn't know the difference if it's good animation or not, so why spend the money?
One of the problems I had with Pocahontas and Mulan was that the pupils had no color in it a lot of scenes. There certainly was a lack of consistency with the eyes. In some shots they Pocahontas did show her brown eyes, but in others they didn't.

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Old 12-26-2010, 11:42 PM   #34
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Just magical. Alan Menken's amazing.
A large part of why those films are great can be attributed to the music of Menken and Howard Ashmen.
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One of the things that never re-emerged in the so called Disney Renaissance was the excellence in animation, the quality of the animators work is sub par to the original Disney animators. Sure the films in the 90's were entertaining, but from standard of artistic merit they surely lacked. One of things Eisner said at the time, in terms of quality in animation, is that general audience wouldn't know the difference if it's good animation or not, so why spend the money?
Can't agree with that, about the only one I can say lacks depth in terms of animation is Mermaid, and that's only because they were on a shoe string budget. The animation got progressively better as the series continued, although I will say I do like the more painterly look of the older films, the films started to get a bit too crisp and clean for my liking from '95 on.

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Old 12-26-2010, 11:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

not sure if it is included in the renaissance
but i really feel that atlantis was and still is incredibly underrated

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Old 12-26-2010, 11:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

It isn't but you'd be surprised with how many people include it.

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Old 12-27-2010, 12:30 AM   #37
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I'm a huge animation buff and have tons of cartoons on DVD from 80's and 90's with the exception of any Disney films....yep that's right I just couldn't stand Disney's musical diabetic fluffiness with it's cutesy characters.

About the only Disney thing I ever saw was Gargoyles and then only because it was an action/adventure cartoon.

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Old 12-27-2010, 12:37 AM   #38
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Then you're missing a lot of great stuff.

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Old 12-27-2010, 12:42 AM   #39
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My favorite song from DN:
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:44 AM   #40
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that song is perfect

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Old 12-27-2010, 01:06 AM   #41
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Disney just ran out of steam. Fantasia 2000, Atlantis, and Emperor's New Groove did so-so. Then came Treasure Planet and Home on the Range.
Oh, Treasure Planet was hardly a bad movie. It's really underrated.

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Old 12-27-2010, 01:42 AM   #42
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here are the 9 Disney Renaissance films.
That's the common perception, but to be fair, the Disney Renaissance is from 1984-94. That's when Michael Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Frank Wells were running the show. Granted, The Little Mermaid is the film that started the "magic" but things didn't happen over night.

The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver & Company aren't "classics" but they paved the way. They served as a learning experience. Then, there's Roger Rabbit. Most people don't realize how important that film is to the Renaissance. On the surface, Don Bluth was Enemy #1 but it was really Steven Spielberg. He produced the Bluth movies and then came to Disney to show-off. That's the straw that broke the camels backs. The Little Mermaid was essentially an F-you to Spielberg.

In `94, when Frank Wells died and Jeffrey Katzenberg left the company, is when everything changed. The Lion King was really the end of the Renaissance. Michael Eisner didn't know how to run the company alone. That's why the quality in Disney Animation declined. The post-Lion King films have their fans but we can all agree that they can't compete with what came before. Those were the true classics.

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Rescuers Down Under doesn't count.
It kinda does. Rescuers Down Under, like Mouse Detective and Oliver, is important to the history. They made a lot of animation break-throughs with that movie and it opened the door to Pixar. Nightmare Before Christmas should also be considered. It was released through Touchstone since it was "too dark" but the film is a classic in its own right and continues to be a money-maker for the studio.

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Look at how miserable Tim Burton was.
The DVD special features have the complete footage. Tim Burton was a major weirdo in those days. Now he's just an eccentric artist. LOL.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:18 AM   #43
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That's the common perception, but to be fair, the Disney Renaissance is from 1984-94. That's when Michael Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Frank Wells were running the show. Granted, The Little Mermaid is the film that started the "magic" but things didn't happen over night.
In `94, when Frank Wells died and Jeffrey Katzenberg left the company, is when everything changed. The Lion King was really the end of the Renaissance.
This is only half true, imo. Yes, that's when things fell apart at the top, but when you consider how long these movies take to make and that they still had movies that were well into production from the old regime at that point, then I think it's fair to include at least the next two that were released after The Lion King (Pocahontas, Hunchback) as part of the Renaissance. Pocahontas especially, as that would have been more than half way done when Wells died, and its story and characters would have been long since locked in place.

I agree though that the "Big 4" of the Renaissance were unquestionably The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King. So FOR ME, it ended with The Lion King, but just like you said the ones before The Little Mermaid should be included despite not being quite as seminal, so should the ones immediately after TLK, imo.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:39 AM   #44
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consider how long these movies take to make and that they still had movies that were well into production from the old regime at that point
The problem is that the trio wasn't there to supervise the entire production. Pocahontas had a year left when the `94 shake-up occurred. Hunchback was only in development. So, they're missing that "magic" touch. Plus, without Katzenberg, the marketing failed. Aladdin and Lion King dominated in `92 and `94. Pocahontas had to settle for #4 and being overshadowed by Toy Story. Hunchback didn't even make the top 10. Neither did Hercules and Mulan. Tarzan sneaked in, but like Pocahontas, it was overshadowed by Toy Story. So, really, public interest ended with Lion King. And that was because Katzenberg wasn't there to pull the marketing strings. The man is a genius in that department. Only he can pull-off four Shrek films, two TV specials, and a ride at Universal Studios. And let's not get started on Madagascar.

So, yeah, we can include `95-99 but the "magic" ended with Lion King. There's no ifs-and-buts about it.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:44 AM   #45
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Most of these animated films were a huge part of my childhood. It was a great time for Disney and animation.

If I had to list some of the best ones (to me) I'd say:

The Lion King
Aladdin
Beauty and The Beast
Hercules

Sadly, I didn't enjoy The Emperors New Groove or Tarzan. Maybe at that point, I'd grown out of the Disney phase.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:50 AM   #46
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Don't agree with the posts above. Pocahontas is the tipping point for when things started to go south, it's an extremely underrated film and doesn't get mentioned enough along with the four films preceding it. It's without doubt the most mature story of the era, and in fact probably the most mature animated film Disney released up to that point. There's a 'Big 5' for that era, the next batch of films after were good, but were not at the same level.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:59 AM   #47
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

You know the fact that almost everyone has named a different Disney movie that was the hallmark or the tipping point goes to show how influential and memorable each of these movies were individually.

Powerhouse is all I can think of. A stretch in which Disney probably cemented their level of accuracy of quality for as long as animation exist.

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:08 AM   #48
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Pocahontas is the tipping point for when things started to go south, it's an extremely underrated film and doesn't get mentioned enough along with the four films preceding it.
There are several reasons for that. For starters, there was the marketing. I already explained that above. People didn't flock to Pocahontas the way they did with the previous four. So, as a result, they don't have a fond memory of getting hyped and making long lines. Most people probably didn't even see that movie in theaters. I sure didn't. And that leads to the second reason: the release date. Pocahontas was released during an aggressive summer. There was Die Hard With a Vengeance (the year's highest grossing film worldwide), Braveheart (that year's Oscar-Winner for Best Picture), Batman Forever (yes, it was popular at time), Apollo 13, and Power Rangers. Without the Katzenberg marketing, it got lost in the shuffle. Then, there was Toy Story. It got A LOT of hype as a groundbreaking animation film. It was the Snow White of 3D graphics. Pocahontas was the beginning of the end for Disney AND traditional animation.

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:25 AM   #49
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Speaking of the Disney Renaissance, has anyone seen the doc Waking Sleeping Beauty?

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:35 AM   #50
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There are several reasons for that. For starters, there was the marketing. I already explained that above. People didn't flock to Pocahontas the way they did with the previous four. So, as a result, they don't have a fond memory of getting hyped and making long lines. Most people probably didn't even see that movie in theaters. I sure didn't. And that leads to the second reason: the release date. Pocahontas was released during an aggressive summer. There was Die Hard With a Vengeance (the year's highest grossing film worldwide), Braveheart (that year's Oscar-Winner for Best Picture), Batman Forever (yes, it was popular at time), Apollo 13, and Power Rangers. Without the Katzenberg marketing, it got lost in the shuffle. Then, there was Toy Story. It got A LOT of hype as a groundbreaking animation film. It was the Snow White of 3D graphics. Pocahontas was the beginning of the end for Disney AND traditional animation.
You're talking about the marketing and profit, I'm talking about the quality of the film itself, the movie is still on par with the four films before it in terms of story, design and music.

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