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Old 12-27-2010, 03:54 AM   #51
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

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Speaking of the Disney Renaissance, has anyone seen the doc Waking Sleeping Beauty?

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i had totally forgotten that Tim Burton used to be an animator for Disney. it's no wonder why he has a soft spot for Disney and why some of his most recent films are somewhat aimed at kids/families

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Old 12-27-2010, 05:28 AM   #52
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The problem is that the trio wasn't there to supervise the entire production. Pocahontas had a year left when the `94 shake-up occurred. Hunchback was only in development. So, they're missing that "magic" touch. Plus, without Katzenberg, the marketing failed. Aladdin and Lion King dominated in `92 and `94. Pocahontas had to settle for #4 and being overshadowed by Toy Story. Hunchback didn't even make the top 10. Neither did Hercules and Mulan. Tarzan sneaked in, but like Pocahontas, it was overshadowed by Toy Story. So, really, public interest ended with Lion King. And that was because Katzenberg wasn't there to pull the marketing strings. The man is a genius in that department. Only he can pull-off four Shrek films, two TV specials, and a ride at Universal Studios. And let's not get started on Madagascar.

So, yeah, we can include `95-99 but the "magic" ended with Lion King. There's no ifs-and-buts about it.
I disagree with "magic". I'd say after Hunchback, there were a dropoff, though I understand why you said after Pocahontas.

I'll be honest, I didn't remember much from the Hunchback of Notre Dame when I was younger. I watched it when I was 6 and remembered liking it, but not loving it (I loved the toys more than the movie haha). But now I'd say Hunchback was definitely up there with the others. I'd say that Hunchback's problem was that it was a bit more relatable to adults than Children, unlike the others which had a much better blend.

I'll also say you're a little too focused on money. They last 5 films are included because of quality and similarity. They were all musicals or had music interludes.

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That's the common perception, but to be fair, the Disney Renaissance is from 1984-94. That's when Michael Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Frank Wells were running the show. Granted, The Little Mermaid is the film that started the "magic" but things didn't happen over night.

The Great Mouse Detective and Oliver & Company aren't "classics" but they paved the way. They served as a learning experience. Then, there's Roger Rabbit. Most people don't realize how important that film is to the Renaissance. On the surface, Don Bluth was Enemy #1 but it was really Steven Spielberg. He produced the Bluth movies and then came to Disney to show-off. That's the straw that broke the camels backs. The Little Mermaid was essentially an F-you to Spielberg.

In `94, when Frank Wells died and Jeffrey Katzenberg left the company, is when everything changed. The Lion King was really the end of the Renaissance. Michael Eisner didn't know how to run the company alone. That's why the quality in Disney Animation declined. The post-Lion King films have their fans but we can all agree that they can't compete with what came before. Those were the true classics.

It kinda does. Rescuers Down Under, like Mouse Detective and Oliver, is important to the history. They made a lot of animation break-throughs with that movie and it opened the door to Pixar. Nightmare Before Christmas should also be considered. It was released through Touchstone since it was "too dark" but the film is a classic in its own right and continues to be a money-maker for the studio.

I just counted the ones that are often identified with DR and these are the films. You could make an argument, but I don't identify the films with the era. I'll admit its because its probably because of quality because I always found Rescuers Down Under to be boring (The first Rescuers film was so much better). I liked Oliver and Company though.

But to be honest, I'd say it starts with The Little Mermaid because that's the film that jump started Disney's run of going back to their fairy-tale (or fairytale-like) roots, hence the term Disney Renaissance. A wave of quality creative activity happening due to embracing the past.

People say it ended with Tarzan because that was the last film have music interludes. It wasn't a musical, per se, but it did feature a lot of music montages.
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You know the fact that almost everyone has named a different Disney movie that was the hallmark or the tipping point goes to show how influential and memorable each of these movies were individually.

Powerhouse is all I can think of. A stretch in which Disney probably cemented their level of accuracy of quality for as long as animation exist.
This.

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:18 AM   #53
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

I just realized that I have only seen 3 of the 'Renaissance 9', although I did get my Mom 'Beauty and the Beast' for Christmas so I will add that shortly.

I agree with those that feel 'Hunchback of Notre Dame' is underrated, I thought they did a good job retelling it in animation form that appealed to both kids and adults alike.

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The films after Tarzan didn't have as huge a financial reception so after 90s ended and Fantasia or The Emperor's New Groove were nowhere close to the box office total of Tarzan (despite critical praise on par with the others for both) it was recognized that the Renaissance was over.
Was this some sort of re-release?

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:30 AM   #54
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

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I'll be honest, I didn't remember much from the Hunchback of Notre Dame when I was younger. I watched it when I was 6 and remembered liking it, but not loving it (I loved the toys more than the movie haha).
Dude, did you ever get the puppets from Burger King? Those are ingrained in my memory as if it were yesterday.

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Was this some sort of re-release?
I think he probably meant Fantasia 2000.

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Old 12-27-2010, 01:31 PM   #55
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

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Dude, did you ever get the puppets from Burger King? Those are ingrained in my memory as if it were yesterday.
Yes, I got all the toys for Hunchback. I even remember having a near 1 foot Phoebus toy that I used to always play with.

And I did mean Fantasia 2000

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Old 12-27-2010, 01:37 PM   #56
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Aladdin is by far my favorite, but I do like the sea witch from the Little Mermaid.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:14 PM   #57
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Bit of Trivia for you, apparently the Sea Which from Mermaid was based off a drag queen performer.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:16 PM   #58
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

So, who was all of yours favorite villain from this era? I'm going with Frollo.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:19 PM   #59
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Bit of Trivia for you, apparently the Sea Which from Mermaid was based off a drag queen performer.
I can't say I'm surprised.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:20 PM   #60
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Bit of Trivia for you, apparently the Sea Which from Mermaid was based off a drag queen performer.
Yes, Ursula was inspired by Divine.

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Old 12-27-2010, 02:30 PM   #61
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So, who was all of yours favorite villain from this era? I'm going with Frollo.
Scar. Easily had the best villain song ever written. 'Be Prepared' has such powerful music and Jeremy Irons vocals are awesome. And the visuals that accompany it on film really give off a Hitler vibe

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:13 PM   #62
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

Shan Yu from "Mulan" is my favorite, that's partly because "Mulan" is actually one of the first Renaissance era movie I saw as a kid.

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:38 PM   #63
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I'd say Frollo, Scar and Gaston are my favorites. Though if I had to say who's the best, it's Frollo by far. He was the deepest character. A character who was power hungry, but felt he was religiously justifiable in his actions. He was probably the only villain that wasn't purely motivated by ego or power, but his religion and lust.

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Old 12-27-2010, 05:57 PM   #64
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

I loved the Disney Renaissance era, particularly because they were a key part of my childhood. I got "The Little Mermaid" video when I was two and I constantly watched it. It's actually one of my earliest memories. "Beauty and the Beast" was the first film I ever saw in theaters. I still remember being scared of the scene with the wolves in the beginning. I really loved the hell out of "Aladdin" the year after that. I remember I had a bunch of the Burger King toys too. "The Lion King" is still one of my all-time favorite Disney movies. Those four are the ones I relate to most. I remember liking "Pocahontas", "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Hercules", "Mulan" and "Tarzan", but not as much as those first four. I wouldn't even consider anything after "The Lion King" to be part of the renaissance. After that, Pixar took over.

I'd really like to see that "Waking Sleeping Beauty" documentary. I've always been interested in behind the scenes stuff from that era of Disney animation.

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:01 PM   #65
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I'd say Frollo, Scar and Gaston are my favorites. Though if I had to say who's the best, it's Frollo by far. He was the deepest character. A character who was power hungry, but felt he was religiously justifiable in his actions. He was probably the only villain that wasn't purely motivated by ego or power, but his religion and lust.
This^

Frollo is not only one of my favorite villains, but The Hunchback of Notre Dame is one of my favorite movies of all time because of his portrayal.

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:10 PM   #66
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What about the music folks? Favourites?

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:44 PM   #67
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"Circle of Life" may be my favorite opening sequence ever. That song coupled with those visuals = instant chills. TLK has my favorite music from the era. BUT that was the work of a "guest" songwriter (Elton John) and composer (Hans Zimmer) for Disney, and I still feel that Alan Menken defined the Disney Renaissance, and pretty much any one of his songs from TLM, BatB and Aladdin are classic and amazing. "Colors of the Wind" and "Go the Distance" from Pocahontas and Hercules are pretty great and iconic, too.

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Old 12-27-2010, 06:54 PM   #68
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I'm the only person I know who doesn't like those movies.

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Old 12-27-2010, 07:07 PM   #69
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''Circle of Life'' may be my favorite opening sequence ever. That song coupled with those visuals = instant chills. TLK has my favorite music from the era. BUT that was the work of a ''guest'' songwriter (Elton John) and composer (Hans Zimmer) for Disney, and I still feel that Alan Menken defined the Disney Renaissance, and pretty much any one of his songs from TLM, BatB and Aladdin are classic and amazing. ''Colors of the Wind'' and ''Go the Distance'' from Pocahontas and Hercules are pretty great and iconic, too.
Opening 5 mins of Lion King I maintain is the most epic opening to a film ever, most of that due to the music.

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Old 12-27-2010, 07:21 PM   #70
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What about the music folks? Favourites?
With music I've been thinking about this. and here it is:

1. The Lion King
2. Hunchback of Notre Dame
3. Little Mermaid
4. Beauty and the Beast
5. Aladdin
6. Tarzan
7. Hercules
8. Pocahontas
9. Mulan

People may wonder why I have Hunchback so high, but it more than Hellfire. I loved the score of the film. The score itself is the second best to TLK. If we only go by songs, I'd put it lower because Hellfire is the only memorable song in the movie.

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Old 12-27-2010, 07:22 PM   #71
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Mulan is underrated. I love the mountain pass scene. **** is pretty intense.

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Old 12-27-2010, 07:48 PM   #72
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

The Lion King is one of my favorite films of all time and definitely my favorite Disney film.Scar was without a doubt my favorite villain.

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Old 12-28-2010, 12:02 AM   #73
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Mulan is underrated. I love the mountain pass scene. **** is pretty intense.
As a movies, its higher. There are some great scenes in the film like the mountain scene, and the training scenes. I put it last because there's not much as much music in the film as the others, and that was the only song I can recall off the top of my head. And I watched all of the DR films last weekend.

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Old 12-28-2010, 12:22 AM   #74
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Default Re: Remembering the Disney Renaissance

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I think he probably meant Fantasia 2000.
Ah I see, I must have missed that altogether as I have no recollection.

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Scar. Easily had the best villain song ever written. 'Be Prepared' has such powerful music and Jeremy Irons vocals are awesome. And the visuals that accompany it on film really give off a Hitler vibe
Personally Jafar is my favourite but Scar was excellent, and I fully agree with you on 'Be Prepared'.

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What about the music folks? Favourites?
Individual songs?

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Old 12-28-2010, 12:28 AM   #75
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The Lion King and Aladdin are two of the best movies of all time. The others are good stuff too, but Imo, Lion King + Aladdin makes for a great day. To this day, I consider it a travesty that only 16 minutes of Zimmer's score for TLK is available.

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