Telltale's The Walking Dead

[SolarTiger]

I'm hoping with next gen we can finally have more true choices in games like Heavy Rain did. I never played it but heard that unlike other games that promise choice, there is literally 5 or 6 different endings.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Heavy Rain's endings are really less about what choices you make but rather how well you do on the QTE sequences. The ending system is tiered with the best ending being "you hit all the button prompts" and the worst being "you didn't so everyone is dead". I think there's actually only 1 choice that actually creates a ending (a variation of the worst one). So its less about making actual choices Walking Dead style and more quantitatively a reflection of how well you did.

Its a lot like old FMV games that resulted in different endings depending on your performance.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Upset Spideyfan

Heavy Rain's endings are really less about what choices you make but rather how well you do on the QTE sequences. The ending system is tiered with the best ending being "you hit all the button prompts" and the worst being "you didn't so everyone is dead". I think there's actually only 1 choice that actually creates a ending (a variation of the worst one). So its less about making actual choices Walking Dead style and more quantitatively a reflection of how well you did.

Its a lot like old FMV games that resulted in different endings depending on your performance.

IDA. Alot of the decision making is left to the QTE's but its still decision making. I liked that there is no failing in the game and it proceeds regardless if you "fail" a QTE and doesnt just restart so you have to do exactly what the developers want you to do in that scenario. I think theres a bit more freedom in HR's favor on that front.

You can obtain and miss entire segments of the game depending on what you choose to do. For example if you let Ethan get caught, you get a new chapter based around his time in the police station, but you dont have to go there. Its not like the game forces you to remain on the run the entire time. There are of course some forced segments such as Ethan surviving the early car crash and Shelby not drowning when his car goes into the river, but theres still several spots in the game where the story does branch out. Madison and creepy guy? Thats another chapter that can be missed and its based on the choices you make, not getting a QTE right or wrong. TWD never branches out; HR does even if everything gets all tied back up at the end as the story reaches its climax.

The entire end segment is different depending on how you played an what combination of characters you bring there and of course the various endings go on from that. I think QD did a relatively good job with the choices they offered and think it was a bit more open and less "scripted" so to speak for lack of a better term, but it could have benefited for more consistent writing. Without going into spoilers, one the biggest complaints about it was plotholes and causing the gamer to stretch his imagination in order to make certain works without giving a valid explanation for so. Thats something I really hope they correct in their future games. I think TWD benefits by having better writing and while there are minor plot holes and stuff that gets dropped, its really nothing major that stands out and hinders the gaming experience

Originally Posted by SolarTiger

I'm hoping with next gen we can finally have more true choices in games like Heavy Rain did. I never played it but heard that unlike other games that promise choice, there is literally 5 or 6 different endings.

Its more closer to 20. Theres 4 playable characters and each of them has about 3-5 endings and I beleive there's one unplayable that has 1 or 2. Its all spliced together at the end when you've completed the game. I thought that was really neat

[SpideyVille]

I remember going after the Platinum for Heavy Rain and looking at a guide for how to get each ending. The best part, yet most frustrating thing about it, was hat there were certain decisions or objects you had to make as early as halfway into the game just to unlock the course of events that would allow you to reach a particular ending. The endings truly were based on what you did or didn't do.

I was also thinking that inFamous 2 is a good example of a game that had different endings based on you choices, but at the same time, about 90% of the game is the same with just a few missions that are different based on whether you played a Good Cole or Evil Cole. But it was definitely an improvement over the first one, which basically had the same ending.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by SpideyVille

I remember going after the Platinum for Heavy Rain and looking at a guide for how to get each ending. The best part, yet most frustrating thing about it, was hat there were certain decisions or objects you had to make as early as halfway into the game just to unlock the course of events that would allow you to reach a particular ending. The endings truly were based on what you did or didn't do.

I was also thinking that inFamous 2 is a good example of a game that had different endings based on you choices, but at the same time, about 90% of the game is the same with just a few missions that are different based on whether you played a Good Cole or Evil Cole. But it was definitely an improvement over the first one, which basically had the same ending.

Infamous 2 was both an improvement and setback. I think it was a setback bc Infamous 1's choices were a bit more ambigious. You didnt always know what was the good or evil choice. In Infamous 2, its either red or blue and blatantly spelled out for you. I think that game's karma system was more about building your character than affecting the story as you are very different at the end of the game based on how you play and the abilities unlocked are more varied and different than Infamous 1

[SpideyVille]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Infamous 2 was both an improvement and setback. I think it was a setback bc Infamous 1's choices were a bit more ambigious. You didnt always know what was the good or evil choice. In Infamous 2, its either red or blue and blatantly spelled out for you. I think that game's karma system was more about building your character than affecting the story as you are very different at the end of the game based on how you play and the abilities unlocked are more varied and different than Infamous 1

Yeah, I think with the ending of the first one, it still kinda made sense that both would lead up to what happens in the second one. But with the final choices in inFamous 2, I think it was a bit too definitive in that one ending could lead into a sequel, while the other seemingly ended Cole's arc.

[Upset Spideyfan]

I wasn't arguing Heavy Rain didn't have branching paths or alt endings.

Originally Posted by Havok83

IDA. Alot of the decision making is left to the QTE's but its still decision making.

I don't really see it. Failing to tap A quickly enough and getting Norman killed really isn't decision making. I'm not knocking the game on those merits at all, the game never professed to be that, but that is where most of the variation comes from: failing to do something.

What people are talking about in here is divergent storytelling as a result of player choice, I don't think that Heavy Rain really does that. What it does is essentially remove the failure state you'd see in a normal FMV game of this style and keeps the action going, but again that's not really "I choose to not kill this man" and now the plot will play out differently. To be fair HR does several straight up "this or that" decisions, Walking Dead style, but only 1 has any sort of serious effect (and even then only in the worst-possible ending).

[Quasimod0]

just finished episode 5.

[Nightmare]

Clem

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Havok83

I knew someone would say that and to me thats bull and a weak excuse. So bc its hard, developers shouldnt do it? I love games like this. Heavy Rain was my favorite game of 2010 and I hoped more developers would make games like that. TWD fufilled a void in a very empty niche genre, but like others it does have its shortcomings, and the lack of choice masked around false perception is one. It got highly praised for what it achieved and Im not knocking or taking away from it, bc I enjoyed it, but its flaws become very apparent upon second playthrough and/or finding about what happens with alternate decisions. Its highest achievement in this first game was its storytelling and writing. Season 2 can simply offer just more of the same, but why aim for just that?

What can set it apart from the original and other games is to actually having branching choices and not merely have most decisions end up with the same consequence no matter what you do. Now that would truly be innovative and quite an accomplishment. Would it be challenging? Yes, but undertaking and actually succeeding in overcoming a challenging aspect of game design is what seperates a typical game from an exceptionally extraordinary one. They already have a good foundation and framwork to build upon. They really need to expand things to make it so that your choices actually do matter and not have every outcome be the same with different dialogue attached. Im hoping QD does that with their upcoming Beyond and I hope the same for TWD S2

Yes but that's why people should complain less about the lack of real choice in the games that make an effort like this & Mass Effect & get on the backs of the 99% of games that don't even try. Also it's a simple resource balancing act. The more real choice you have over a longer series of games the more you will not see & as a result the parts you do see will individually have less resources allocated to them. And of course everyone wants all this on the cheap.

[Matt]

Every time I see this thread bumped, I expect a season 2 announcement and am always devastated when it isn't.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yes but that's why people should complain less about the lack of real choice in the games that make an effort like this & Mass Effect & get on the backs of the 99% of games that don't even try. Also it's a simple resource balancing act. The more real choice you have over a longer series of games the more you will not see & as a result the parts you do see will individually have less resources allocated to them. And of course everyone wants all this on the cheap.

Why? Story influencing decisions isnt the premise behind 99% of games out there, nor should it be. Those games shouldnt be penalized for not doing something they arent setting out to achieve. To me thats saying people should complain that there's no co op in TWD. Well thats not the premise behind the game, so one shouldnt expect or hold it against them

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Havok83

Why? Story influencing decisions isnt the premise behind 99% of games out there, nor should it be. Those games shouldnt be penalized for not doing something they arent setting out to achieve. To me thats saying people should complain that there's no co op in TWD. Well thats not the premise behind the game, so one shouldnt expect or hold it against them

Ok what I'm getting at here is that real choice that works in games is rare and when a game tries it they seem to get criticised by those who want choice the most. I mean I think its great but don't know if its always worth the hundreds of extra hours of potential scenes you need to let play out depending on which characters you kept alive in game 1 & 2 & whether you turned left out of your base or took a dump during an important battle. For those who don't do multiple playthroughs (a big majority given the small number of people who even complete a game's campaign once) the resource-starved game that's left for them is guaranteed to suffer to some extent.

Something like TWD needs choice & consequence to succeed (along with story & characters) as that is its main asset and the rest of the game is not really aiming too high. Mass Effect on the other hand gets so much criticism despite having all the qualities to be one of the top games out there even if it was totally linear. They must sometimes think what's the point of trying this out when it's leading to an avoidable barrage of criticism and the failure on this aspect of the game blinds these people to all the other merits of the game.

[TheDreamMaster]

[SpideyVille]

[Matt]

I was about to be pissed that this thread was once again bumped with no news of season 2, but that is just too damn funny to be mad about.

[Matt]

But here is some good news:

Telltale hints at "extra content," for season one!



I REALLY would like an alternative chapter 4 and 5 where Lee goes with Lilly.

[Upset Spideyfan]

Excellent.

A bit sad it sounds like season 2 is still a ways off though. I need season 2 in my life now.

[Donut]

Maybe they will add more choices to the game as well. Like leaving with Lilly or being able to save Carley etc

[SpideyVille]

Carley

[Soapy]

It's way too late to add alternate choices into the game. Plus that stuff should have been in there since the beginning.

[James]

Why is it too late? If the DLC were to add in some completely alternate story branches, I'd definitely give it another play through just to see the possibilities.

[KevanG]

Oh god. Duck Hunt. That's terrible.

[Soapy]

What's wrong with Duck Hunt?

[danoyse]

I started the game this week, finished it last night. I think I'm emotionally drained now.

Originally Posted by Matt

Every time I see this thread bumped, I expect a season 2 announcement and am always devastated when it isn't.

Sorry Matt.