Young Justice Cartoon

[TheCorpulent1]

I preferred Peter David's take on Atlantis. Strong magical history but in the present it relies more on technology and only a couple of the major characters derive their powers from magic. Atlantis seems to lose something to me if it's presented as an underwater Hogwart's.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=888

Greg confirms that Orm and L-5, the Light member Black Manta talks to at the end, have the same voice actor (Roger Craig Smith).

Hmmm....

[Gold Samurai]

I don't know if someone said it here but "Downtime" felt more like

"Kaldur: the last Waterbender"

[TheCorpulent1]

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=888

Greg confirms that Orm and L-5, the Light member Black Manta talks to at the end, have the same voice actor (Roger Craig Smith).

Hmmm....

Ocean Master = one of the Light, which makes me think the Light are basically an updated Legion of Doom or Secret Society of Supervillains.

[RisanF]

Here's an old point I've been wanting to make on the whole Wally/Artemis thing.

Earlier, Dread mentioned Wally/Raven from the comics as a parallel to Wally/Artemis in a point about "opposites attract" couples that don't really last. I actually read a Wally/Raven fanfic called "Dragons, Demons, and Other Wonders of the Heart", which was part of a series that was basically about taking the pseudo lesbian subtext between Wonder Woman and Princess Audrey from "Maid of Honor" and making an entire fic about it (great stuff). What was interesting about the story was the portrayal of Raven as this sort of quiet, mousy roommate of Starfire (whom Wally was initially interested in). The geek-girl thing worked well with Wally's boisterous, upbeat nature, and let Wally champion Raven through her problems.

Which brings me to Young Justice; I've read fanfics that are more inspired than this show currently is. And that's all Young Justice is: a fanfic. All DC animated shows are basically offshoots of somebody else's idea or characters; the only original character here is the new Aqualad. But here, there hasn't been any really gripping interactions or twists yet, other than the strong continuity and the appeal of the standard Animated DC show.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Drz

[Drz]

Ah so Orm is a bad guy too, what a tweest! Also new episode preview:
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/ne...ullnews&id=982

Hmm so it seems Megan has been on Earth for over 6 months, she recognizes the Superman symbol and has watched enough of the Hello Megan sitcom to get the catchphrase stuck on her head.

[Lencho01]

Originally Posted by Drz

Ah so Orm is a bad guy too, what a tweest! Also new episode preview:
http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/ne...ullnews&id=982

Hmm so it seems Megan has been on Earth for over 6 months, she recognizes the Superman symbol and has watched enough of the Hello Megan sitcom to get the catchphrase stuck on her head.

Superboy screaming again?

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Drz

Ah so Orm is a bad guy too, what a tweest!

Only if one is unfamiliar with Aquaman's rogue's gallery.

[Scarecrow_King]

Preview Pics and Video for next episode
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=31195

sigh. more black costume for Wally. why do they ever even show the yellow costume if he's never gonna wear the damn thing? its really starting to get on my nerves.

[bored]

They strive for that, if you hadn't noticed. Otherwise, how could "Hel-LO, Megan!" be such a big part of the show?

[GhostPoet]

That is the only part of the show that annoys me to know end. "Hel-LO, Megan"
ughhhhhhh

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Errr....nope, I still don't have a thin hide so as to have one insignificant phrase bother me.

[Dread]

The preview for "BEREFT" looks both interesting and possibly annoying. Just when Superboy has started to ease up from being a stock angry loner, here comes a plot that brings it out of him. He's quickly becoming the Wolverine; the most dysfunctional yet useful member of the team; the guy who normally should be the weakest link, but who the plot often turns into the strongest one. In real life, a guy who screams and rages blindly and disobeys orders is canon fodder; in fiction, he's more useful than the best trained, rational leader.

I am curious about whether an episode in which the team forgets about each other is really a good idea for a 9th episode. I suppose if the season was 12 episodes it might be, but I don't know if it is. Artemis has only been a part of the team two episodes; it seems a bit of a waste from her perspective. One would imagine that if the "memory lapse" negates 6 months of memories, that Robin, Kaldur, and Kid-Flash should still know each other, although they may not know Megan, Superboy, or Artemis. As Superboy was rescued from a test tube less than that length of time, he'll be the most effected. Part of me wonders if the amnesia angle is a hammer that is being used to actually get some solid depth to some of the characters that can't be accomplished any other way. Movies often use absurd situations as shorthand to getting to narrative places that take more nuance to reach normally. "What if you were granted a wish by a magic carnival machine" and all that.

Amnesia episodes are also a standard TV plot for serial series. Same as the "leader loses faith" episode. Again, where is the shrinking episode? The time travel episode where people meet dinosaurs? The "adopt a pet/baby" episode? The mind swap episode? C'mon, if you're going to adopt one or two older than stone plots, you may as well do them all! I normally can't stand amnesia episodes, because all you do is spend 22 minutes waiting for the characters to figure out who they are so they can FINALLY overcome the threat that they usually could have overcome in 5 seconds with their memories, which they then do at the end. Often, if anything different is learned during the amnesia episode, it doesn't remain, because the older memories supplant it. For team episodes, an amnesia episode often stresses the power of teamwork harder than usual (usually about as subtle as a sledgehammer to Jello). It is possible that this could be the best amnesia episode of any show ever made, but I usually can't assume that until I see it.

Two screen shots depict Kid-Flash and Artemis together; if the amnesia plot hook is used as a hammer for any story purpose, it will be in getting these two together, which THE HELMET OF FATE suggested. Without 6 months of knowledge, Artemis doesn't know Wally is a mouthy fop, and Wally wouldn't be initially irritated at her for at the notion of "replacing" Speedy as the team archer. The two are like oil and water and may NEED something as crude as an amnesia episode to get ANY scene out of them where they aren't arguing. I can imagine when everyone's memories return, Artemis and/or Wally might retain some of their experiences in the desert together. There should be a better way to get them together than that, but we'll see how it goes. The experience could allow Wally to see Artemis beyond simply assuming she is Speedy's replacement and rejecting her on those grounds, while Artemis might see that in an area like a desert where there are fewer things to trip over, Wally could be useful.

The irony is that unless they enter the desert at night, a black uniform is actually LESS useful for stealth purposes than a yellow/red one.

The desert of Bialya is naturally one of DC's fictional areas, and comes with a slew of stories from past lore. It is the desert with Dan Garret initially found the Blue Beetle scarab, which later empowered him and Jaime Reyes. Black Adam has been involved in affairs around the area too. But perhaps more to the point of the show, it is an area that the villain Queen Bee has often been involved in. We do know that Queen Bee has been confirmed for this show; what better a villain in an episode that harps about team work than a villain who is used to programming drones? The desert is north of Iran and Saudi Arabia, which is naturally a hotbed region now.

Originally Posted by Primal Slayer

If those 3 dont think about how to use their pwoers properly then he would be a challenge for them. Espically since they never faced him before. If you just try to use brute streangth against Clayface (which SB probably did) then I dont think it would work that well since he is jsut made up of clay or whatever and one punch is not goign to affect him in his A game, Megan probably didnt even think of trying to pull him apart with her TK and Kaldur clearly didnt think about using electricity against him.

I still don't see how Clayface TKO's Superboy. AMAZO couldn't even do that with Superman's strength; Clayface isn't that strong.

I just feel the scene either needed more time and set up, or a different villain needed to be chosen. The DCU is a big universe; no need to rely almost exclusively on Batman villains.

The sad thing? I have no problem understanding how Clayface could have beaten Kid-Flash. He likely just slipped on clay.

Originally Posted by Savage

I actually like that aspect. It separates Atlantis from the typical depictions such as Marvel's. It's closer to Asgard in that magic and technology are one and the same and that's very cool to me. I love the idea.

Exactly. I loved this show's version of Atlantis.

Originally Posted by Gold Samurai

I don't know if someone said it here but "Downtime" felt more like

"Kaldur: the last Waterbender"

In my review, I noted it as "KALDUR: THE STARRING WATERBENDER" (as Tula and Garth were guest waterbenders).

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=888

Greg confirms that Orm and L-5, the Light member Black Manta talks to at the end, have the same voice actor (Roger Craig Smith).

Hmmm....

Interesting. Aquaman must be away a lot if he can't tell Ocean Master is his brother, though.

Originally Posted by RisanF

Here's an old point I've been wanting to make on the whole Wally/Artemis thing.

Earlier, Dread mentioned Wally/Raven from the comics as a parallel to Wally/Artemis in a point about "opposites attract" couples that don't really last. I actually read a Wally/Raven fanfic called "Dragons, Demons, and Other Wonders of the Heart", which was part of a series that was basically about taking the pseudo lesbian subtext between Wonder Woman and Princess Audrey from "Maid of Honor" and making an entire fic about it (great stuff). What was interesting about the story was the portrayal of Raven as this sort of quiet, mousy roommate of Starfire (whom Wally was initially interested in). The geek-girl thing worked well with Wally's boisterous, upbeat nature, and let Wally champion Raven through her problems.

Which brings me to Young Justice; I've read fanfics that are more inspired than this show currently is. And that's all Young Justice is: a fanfic. All DC animated shows are basically offshoots of somebody else's idea or characters; the only original character here is the new Aqualad. But here, there hasn't been any really gripping interactions or twists yet, other than the strong continuity and the appeal of the standard Animated DC show.

I saw Raven as more of an introverted goth than a "geek girl". She did actually have emotions under the surface, you just had to pierce her emotional armor. Of course, there were no end of Beast Boy/Raven shippers from "TEEN TITANS" forums.

Artemis is not a "geek girl". I actually think one would work well with Kid-Flash. Artemis is an assertive, no-nonsense, all attitude competitor. A type A personality, as it were. While Kid-Flash sees himself as similar, he relies more on bravado he can't back up, at least so far in this show. He's the team's weakest link. One would argue Superboy should be, since he is the angry, emotional loner, but his brute strength makes him more vital as the muscle of the team. Kid-Flash has experience and training, but he hasn't quite combined them properly on the field, IMO, in this show so far. In fact he reminds me very much of how Michelangelo often acted in the 2k3 era TMNT show. There were times he could get serious and actually be a very efficient, even creative fighter (especially in training sequences; Mikey could even frustrate Raph in sparring sessions) - but 90% of the time, he was the one who made wisecracks, screamed like a girl, and screwed up.

I suppose Artemis and Kid-Flash could work in a similar fashion as Kim Possible and Ron Stoppable did (an efficient, non-nonsense action girl and her spastic load of a male sidekick), but to be honest I didn't see enough of that show to understand why Kim and Ron worked out beyond story demands. And to be fair, Wally doesn't screw up nearly as much as Ron did.

At any rate, I wouldn't say there has been no interaction between the characters; I think that is the strength of the show. My problem is many of those interactions, so far, have not risen far above established tropes, which doesn't make them bad, but more predictable than they should be.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Wally's trying to get some martian poon tang. Can you blame him? Plus, M'gann said she liked Superboy's shirt (which is black) so maybe that's the reason behind the rhyme.

[Dread]

Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg Bop

Wally's trying to get some martian poon tang. Can you blame him? Plus, M'gann said she liked Superboy's shirt (which is black) so maybe that's the reason behind the rhyme.

Yeah, Wally is into Megan. This amnesia episode is also a hammer-style method of having Wally lose interest in her and shift onto Artemis. He didn't know Megan 6 months ago.

Again, there may be better ways to move the characters in certain directions, but an amnesia episode is a good hammer to get pegs into the holes you want.

Personally, I would have rather seen the show try to shift these characters around without needing these sort of hammers; I mean, do we REALLY need to continue making Meganboy the most obvious romantic couple since Romeo and Juliet? Most of their scenes in the show have been together. Superboy hasn't interacted much with any other character since the pilot.

It's just....was TSSM really this obvious, and I had fanboy blinders on so I didn't mind it?

[bored]

I think there was a different sort of coyness with TSSM. Here, they're just milking it for drama (though admittedly I got a good chuckle out of Red Tornado seeing Megan and Conner and figuring out that something awkward had happened).

[Dread]

I didn't mind that scene with Red Tornado. What I DO mind is the show seeming to pretend there is a "love triangle" between Wally, Megan, and Superboy. There IS no triangle. The show ruined that chance when Megan was blushing about Superboy in episode 4. There is an established couple, and an intruding third wheel. At this point we are just waiting for Megan and Superboy to make out, order the silverware and get it over with already.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Was I the only one more worried about WHY IS SUPERBOY STARING AT A STATIC TV than the romance. Seriously, there's adjusting to a human life...and then there's THAT. That was kinda creepy. Maybe there's more going on there than we think...

[Dread]

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

Was I the only one more worried about WHY IS SUPERBOY STARING AT A STATIC TV than the romance. Seriously, there's adjusting to a human life...and then there's THAT. That was kinda creepy. Maybe there's more going on there than we think...

It thought it was pretty creepy/stupid too. I think everyone who has commented on the episode online has been dismayed by that scene.

Unlike the "is it a mission or a training episode" thing, where at least 10% of viewers were confused.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

Originally Posted by Dread

It thought it was pretty creepy/stupid too. I think everyone who has commented on the episode online has been dismayed by that scene.

Unlike the "is it a mission or a training episode" thing, where at least 10% of viewers were confused.

It's not so much as that I disliked that scene, but that Superboy seemed like he was in a trance or something when watching the TV. Maybe this is foreshadowing of something about him in the future?

[Dread]

Originally Posted by GamerSlyRatchet

It's not so much as that I disliked that scene, but that Superboy seemed like he was in a trance or something when watching the TV. Maybe this is foreshadowing of something about him in the future?

That's possible. Maybe that is another angle where Superboy is similar to Wolverine; after being liberated by a secret cabal that wanted to make a living weapon, that cabal still has methods to control or influence him.

[Panthro]

It's not fair to judge "Bereft" before it actually airs, but it seems kind of early for an amnesia episode, and as Dread pointed out, those episodes tend to be lame. The whole "Jean Grey has amnesia" on W&TXM was dripping with lameness and felt forced as it served no real purpose other than to make her a damsel in distress for the sociopathic Cyclops to rescue later on, and the poor dumb schmuck didn't get so much as a handshake for his trouble (I'm still surprised they bothered to include her at all, considering that she's MIA in the comics these days & the current X-crew is all about Emma Frost).

Originally Posted by Dread

I didn't mind that scene with Red Tornado. What I DO mind is the show seeming to pretend there is a "love triangle" between Wally, Megan, and Superboy. There IS no triangle. The show ruined that chance when Megan was blushing about Superboy in episode 4. There is an established couple, and an intruding third wheel. At this point we are just waiting for Megan and Superboy to make out, order the silverware and get it over with already.

What bothers me about this relationship, what little relationship is actually there, is that Megan seems to do all the heavy lifting while Superboy just sits there like a bump on a log, in this episode literally (I'm guessing him watching the snowy TV screen is supposed to be funny but it does come off as unintentionally creepy). I know he's an emotionally stunted clone, but would it kill him to make a gesture? He doesn't even get annoyed when Kid Flash randomly hits on Megan (then again, maybe it's better that he doesn't). About the most he's done so far to show any sign of reciprocating her feelings was to tell her she did alright with their Happy Harbor mission in "Dropzone", and managed to say it with an encouraging smile, though I guess reluctantly (and quietly) agreeing to help her prepare dinner counts (along with them being volley ball team one against Robin & Aqualad in Infiltrator). Considering how annoyed she looked when Red Tornado walked in, you have to wonder if something almost happened and then Superboy broke away not knowing what to do; and look at how violently she was chopping those veggies, probably thinking "So close... so damn close..."

Speaking of creepiness in general and in regards to this 'relationship', did anyone else find it creepy that Megan set her sights on Superboy so quickly from the end of Independence Day, part 2? There are times where it's hard not to think of her as being a little stalkerish towards the boy of steel. I was like "Geez, at least give her a few episodes to bond with the guys before setting her sights on someone."

Seeing the 3 generations of Flashes together was cool, but did anyone else notice that they got Iris West-Allen's hair wrong? Iris doesn't have red hair, she has brown hair (though sometimes it looks a tad auburn). I'm guessing they fudged it to make her look more related to Wally (without getting into some very complicated history).

[bored]

I doubt you'll see Iris enough for it to be a major issue. And with how their handling Megan's attraction to Superboy, keep in mind this is supposed to be a depiction of a teen with a crush. We were all there at one point, where you just go after someone you find attractive (and, since we're all nerds here, we were usually sheepish and nervous about it). It's just especially dragged out here because the writers think that somehow makes a better story (or are dragging it along until they can devote a whole episode to them getting together).

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Dread

That's possible. Maybe that is another angle where Superboy is similar to Wolverine; after being liberated by a secret cabal that wanted to make a living weapon, that cabal still has methods to control or influence him.

That's actually what I was thinking. Maybe The Light was talking to him through the tv. Hopefully this comes up again later.

...God, that was creepy.