Official First Class News & Speculation Thread - Part 1

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by The Mast

First, he never hit any nail, because he reacted incorrectly to the kind of post I was making. Now, you're doing the same. You read his post and assumed what mine was about, like he did. If you'd read the convo, you'd have noted that I wasn't complaining about tiny details or how it's not 100% accurate.

It's only respectful to read both sides before cheerleading. That's just rude.

Secondly, why not say that to anyone, though?

Why make these movies when the general public can get off their asses and go read the comics? It works both ways here.



Can everyone stop insisting that the reason I'm annoyed is because it's not being translated to the smallest detail? Really?

I don't mind having a discussion, but if you're gonna sit there and say I'm nit-picking over smallest details, then we might as well go our separate ways. None of the problems I stated are tiny details.

Tiny would be, "Oh, Obediah Stane didn't die that way." It's not a tiny nitpick, if you wish to trivialise it that way, to have issue with calling the movie X-Men: First Class. This is bearing in mind that none of the first class is there except Beast. Yet, they are having the brother of one of the inaugural members...and Azazel.

That's not even smart marketing. People know Cyclops, they know Iceman etc. How is having Azazel and Angel Salvatore even going to appeal to a general audience when people who read the COMICS barely give a crap?

Really, it's quite frustrating that anytime someone comes up with legitimate issues, and voices them without dissing anyone else, you all act like it's the stereotypical comic book nerd problem. It's not. It's not unthinkable nor unreasonable for someone to have a legitimate issue with Fox and their history with comic book movies.

To that end, I move to this point:



Seeing as there's no universal right or wrong when it comes to taste, I doubt it. You've got people in this very thread who have said they're pleased with the X-movies. Now, that's their right and I fully respect that, but that doesn't send them the message of, "We're making crap movies."

You suggest that throwing our optimism and support behind the makers will help. Why? Especially since it's not even them that I have an issue with, it's Fox. Fox hired Tim Story to direct Fantastic Four, he didn't hire himself.

Look at the other comic movies Fox have distributed. Such gems as Daredevil, the two Fantastic Four movies, Elektra...

That's eight movies, including the four X-Men ones to date, that I consider bad to legitimately terrible. How can you honestly reduce any anti-Fox argument to, "You just nitpick everything."?

For the record, I'm not even an X-Men fan. I like the comics now and then, used to love them, but my concern is that Fox will continue to grab up any other franchise they can unless they're stopped. It's not solely an X-Men concern.

Maybe, once in a while, you should consider whether you are far too accepting. Because the common trend is that it's everyone else not being satisfied with anything anyone does, ever. Maybe that's not the case. Maybe you ought to demand a little more from the people saying, "Here's our movie, pay to watch it." I don't think I'm being unreasonable at all.

They've poured almost 900 million into those eight movies. Don't you think Fox have had their shot at putting out a worthy comic book movie? Don't you think it's time to let the rights go to Marvel? Who, in just three movies, have already established themselves as better suited to handling these projects?

You make some points I can empathise with. But it's not as clear cut as that.

Other studios have also delivered superhero misfires. Sony gave us Ghost Rider and Spider-Man 3, while Warner Bros were behind Batman & Robin, Batman Forever, Superman 3, Superman 4, Catwoman and the some-love-it/some-hate-it underperforming Superman Returns.

Clearly there is a wide spectrum of critical response and box office performance in this genre.

Even Marvel itself isn't perfect. Its revamp of the Hulk made no more than Ang Lee's version for Universal (neither film has been scintillatingly brilliant) and, quite frankly, Iron Man 2 was a mess (with multiple villains popping up all over the place).

The four X-Men films so far are a mixed bag, partly due to the fact they weren't mapped out from the beginning but have stumbled along on a one-by-one basis, with different directors and writers contributing.

Personally, I don't think any of the four films has been terrible or unwatchable. I always make sure i see superhero films with one or more people who aren't diehard fans, in order to keep some perspective on the matter without going all uber-geeky and nitpicky. I don't want to believe a film is 'teh worst evah' just because they made a few changes here and there.

It's fair to say there were more issues with the last two films because of some faulty decisions and misjudgements (like curing Rogue and bastardising Deadpool) and this is obviously why they felt they had to get Singer back because his X-movies have been the most solid and consistent.

I couldn't help but noticing that you didn't even like X2, aside from the Nightcrawler/Whitehouse scene. Of course, that scene is nowhere to be found in the comics...Nightcrawler has never been a brainwashed pawn of Stryker who tries to assassinate the president. It's odd that you single it out as something you like most.

[Mulholland '49]

We could of had Gambit and Angel in this movie... ehh don't even get me started.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

We could of had Gambit and Angel in this movie... ehh don't even get me started.

How? Gambit and Angel both played significant roles in the last two X-Men films. It's nothing like Emma, who was an unnamed cameo.

But, I can almost guarantee that if Angel wasn't in X3 he would be in this film.

[Mulholland '49]

The point I was making was that neither were used to their full potential and were just thrown in their movies to attract more fans. They should have just left them alone.

Oh lord I just remembered Psylocke.

[JP]

Agreed.

[Crockett]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

The point I was making was that neither were used to their full potential and were just thrown in their movies to attract more fans. They should have just left them alone.

Oh lord I just remembered Psylocke.

Oh yeah.

[Mulholland '49]

I would love to see Forge in this movie too...

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

The point I was making was that neither were used to their full potential and were just thrown in their movies to attract more fans. They should have just left them alone.

Oh lord I just remembered Psylocke.

That's the problem, though, with adding secondary and tertiary characters. Fans all want their favourites to have huge roles, or for every character to have big roles. But it doesn't happen that way. Singer sidelined Jubilee, erased all but a hint of Sabretooth/Wolverine history, removed the origins (and any hint of them) for Cyclops and Storm (and then added in a kid who changed TV stations when he blinked).

Screentime is never going to be evenly distributed. Some of our much-loved characters will end up shoved in the background and used to move the plot forward for the others.

Angel and Psylocke were intended to have larger roles but those got trimmed back - and that's probably a good thing, because there was enough going on in the movie already.

[The Original Bamfer]

Forge would make sense considering all the new technology that will probably be cradted in this film, but it would be easy to assume that Beast, with his intelligence, could take over that role in the film.

[Alexei Belyakov]

Its been really interesting going through this thread (and the last one), alot of mixed feelings regarding the film. I myself stand more positive than negative towards it, the positive being the actors, the negative being Vaughn (although I did like his first two movies). I'm not at all crazy with his mentality on The X-Men having any resemblance to the Bond films or this Magneto/spy/CIA plot. But I'll watch it for the same reason I've watched all of them. When I was a kid I never woulda thought they were gonna make live-action X-Men movies. And yeah I'm with the whole "why make them if they're gonna suck?" mentality, but I seriously doubt it was the studio's intention for ORIGINS to be so bad. I think this film, if aimed at a mature crowd, as was the trilogy, as are the Nolan Batman flicks, can work wonders.

[Matt Mortem]

I think the Bond reference that Vaughn made could have been overstated. I think it was used as more a reference to the time-period rather than any storyline parts.

[Alexei Belyakov]

Originally Posted by Matt Mortem

I think the Bond reference that Vaughn made could have been overstated. I think it was used as more a reference to the time-period rather than any storyline parts.

Hopefully. That whole thing with Magneto being a spy really doesn't work for me. What worries me the most is the idea of Vaughn approaching this the way he approached Kick-Ass. It should be way more serious than that film, like Layer Cake.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Matt Mortem

I think the Bond reference that Vaughn made could have been overstated. I think it was used as more a reference to the time-period rather than any storyline parts.

It has to be said that in the now-abandoned/absorbed X-Men Origins: Magneto script, Erik did go on a mission to track down Nazis (and Xavier ended up involved in it too), so I think this is what Vaughn was referring to. They will go on a mission/quest to find Shaw. That sort of investigation and tracking down the baddie is akin to the Bond movies where 007 had to find the megalomaniac who had some incredible scheme for destroying the world. That's what Vaughn meant and I'm okay with that.


As a sidenote, and as i mentioned on Twitter to another superhero fan, it would be nice to hear the X-Men's animated series theme (from the first series) reinterpreted with orchestral strings into a 60s style track. If they were clever they'd get someone like Duffy (Welsh singer, does 60-style pop tracks, check out her 'Mercy') to do an X-Men soundtrack song.

[The Guard]

I'm going to point out the obvious.

The reason they're probably using the no name heroes and villains?

Someone has to die, even in the early days of the war. There have to be stakes.

And look, for instance, how fans and casual fans reacted to the deaths of popular characters in THE LAST STAND.

[Legion]

Originally Posted by The Guard

I'm going to point out the obvious.

The reason they're probably using the no name heroes and villains?

Someone has to die, even in the early days of the war. There have to be stakes.

And look, for instance, how fans and casual fans reacted to the deaths of popular characters in THE LAST STAND.

One of the reasons I found the X-Men so interesting when I was young was the fact that they seemed so much more mortal than other superheroes. There was always the threat they could die. My first real exposure to the X-Men was the pilot to the 90's series Night of the Sentinels were Morph was killed (although he later returned) and Beast's imprisonment. As a kid a took a while for the impact that these episodes had to sink in.

That being said I have no problem with having a major character being killed off as long as they are done justice and it has a major impact on the story. What I hated about Scott's death in X3 was that he was thrown to the curb in the first two films, and since X3 featured the Dark Phoenix, that should have been his time to shine (as well as Jean's). If they had both gone out like Romeo and Juliet at the end I couldn't have been happier and would have felt it was a more suitable ending.

I have been avoiding this forum after being let down so hard with Wolverine. Now I see these new pics and I'm started to get interested mostly because of Magneto and the overall look of the film.

It's kind of depressing though that this spinoff about lower tier characters may be of higher quality of the core series. Of course this is just an opinion. Then when I think about the villains, members of the The Hellfire Club, I think "shouldn't they have been in X3?"

Wolverine is my favorite character but I think we'd all agree that he was a bit of a screen hog in the X-films. Now there's an opportunity to make a film where we see more of Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Beast but instead they chose to place the story in a setting this wouldn't be possible. As for having characters that could die, well with the "original" lineup in addition we could have had characters like Sunfire, Thunderbird, Mimic...hell I would have loved to have seen Morph!!

[protocida]

I've been thinking... Matthew Vaughn already said several times that he won't necessarily follow the comic books' canon and that Magneto is the main character of the movie. Magneto's character sheet also says he is hunting down the man who created him. It is said that Magneto and Xavier eventually team up with the CIA to stop Sebastian Shaw because they'd already be tracking him down for some time. And Kevin Bacon's character has been identified as Dr. Schmidt in some news vehicles. Dr. Schmidt was a real Nazi scientist who conducted genetic experiments with babies in Concentration Camps.

I'm starting to believe that Vaughn will use Jeph Loeb's idea that mutants have been created by human scientists, in this case, Nazis led by Dr. Schmidit, who also manages to give himself mutant powers. Their first succesful test subject is Magneto. After losing his wife and daughter due to the revelation that he's a mutant and meeting Xavier, Magneto starts searching for Schmidt and finds out that he escaped to the United States of America, adopted the identity of Sebastian Shaw and used his powers to become a billionaire and fund the Hellfire Club with intents of using the tensions between the United States and Cuba to start a war and take over the world in the wake of its destruction.

Just a theory.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by protocida

I've been thinking... Matthew Vaughn already said several times that he won't necessarily follow the comic books' canon and that Magneto is the main character of the movie. Magneto's character sheet also says he is hunting down the man who created him. It is said that Magneto and Xavier eventually team up with the CIA to stop Sebastian Shaw because they'd already be tracking him down for some time. And Kevin Bacon's character has been identified as Dr. Schmidt in some news vehicles. Dr. Schmidt was a real Nazi scientist who conducted genetic experiments with babies in Concentration Camps.

I'm starting to believe that Vaughn will use Jeph Loeb's idea that mutants have been created by human scientists, in this case, Nazis led by Dr. Schmidit, who also manages to give himself mutant powers. Their first succesful test subject is Magneto. After losing his wife and daughter due to the revelation that he's a mutant and meeting Xavier, Magneto starts searching for Schmidt and finds out that he escaped to the United States of America, adopted the identity of Sebastian Shaw and used his powers to become a billionaire and fund the Hellfire Club with intents of using the tensions between the United States and Cuba to start a war and take over the world in the wake of its destruction.

Just a theory.

Some of that has crossed my mind too. What I don't like too much is that - in your theory - mutants are artificially created. It doesn't explain why they are popping up all over the place, it makes it sound like the Mutant X show, and it totally erases the idea that human evolution is exploring its next steps through these amazing mutations.

It's more likely that those with known mutations (and Erik's were manifested very visibly in the X1 opening scene) are being experimented on as the Nazis try to find their Übermensch to build a super-race. I hope that is the case rather than the Nazis creating the mutations from scratch.

[chaseter]

Originally Posted by JP

With Magneto in his "Late-twenties" in this film, the possibility of Scarlet Which is impracticle. Unless they were no longer related.

Which Witch?

[JP]

I need to stop posting while drinking.

[The Original Bamfer]

Or drink more while posting?

[JP]

Tomato potato.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by The Mast

Can everyone stop insisting that the reason I'm annoyed is because it's not being translated to the smallest detail? Really?

Sorry. You may not be *****ing about every tiny detail, but when people ***** that the time based appropriate characters aren't in the film(Havok being in this but no Cyclops or true original team for that matter), for the most part I consider that almost as bad.

Just because they put in some characters that I don't care for, Azael(sp?) and that Angel chick, doesn't mean the film will be bad or not feel like what an X-men film should be like in relation to the comics.

Right now the only real complaint I have is that I'm wondering why they gave Mystique those scales again. I can understand if there was an actual reason behind it, but it's just there for the hell of it. Same with the decision to do that in the first film.

[Project862006]

you are wondering why they made her look like the mystique of the original trilogy that this is a prequel to?

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Project862006

you are wondering why they made her look like the mystique of the original trilogy that this is a prequel to?

Well I did say "Same with the decision to do that in the first film.".

Until you made this post I still had no idea this was an official prequel. I thought it was still in the air.

[Wolverine1988]

The Mast, you are basing your opinion on a pretty stupid point,

Who gives a **** if they aren't top known characters like Cyclops, doesn't mean they wont be good characters in the film.

And again it ISN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL IF THIS FIRST CLASS ISN'T THE FIRST CLASS FORM THE COMICS.


Directors change **** from the comics to films all the time, and doing this isn't that big of a deal

Ok so in the movie verse Cyclps and Jean Grey aren't in the First Class, well they are in the comic verse but this isn't that is it?

The Director has a story to tell and he wants these mutants as the First Class, again it doesn't change much what so ever. he doesn't have to include the comic version of First Class if it doesn't serve a purpose in what he is trying to do with the films

And yes YOU ARE BITCING ABOUT A TINY DETAIL.

Again you don't even like the X-men films so why should it matter who they include? since your not even a fan of the films.