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View Poll Results: What is your opinion of climate change?
Yes it is real and humanity is causing it. 17 62.96%
Yes it is real but part of a natural cycle. 4 14.81%
It is real but is both man made and a natural cycle. 4 14.81%
It's a complete scam made to make money. 3 11.11%
I dont know or care. 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #751
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

I believe climate change exists. It's been proven. But it's not natural. It's man made due to cities releasing more and more heat/energy into the atmosphere. They have proven that it does effect weather in other parts of the world.

Obviously it's making things warmer too. Here in Washington we didn't even have a winter. It's been sunny and in the 50's.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:27 PM   #752
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I live in Indiana, and am 29. I say my age to put this in a time reference. When I was a kid I remember a few entire weeks off of school in December for excessive snow, even one in high school. I also remember summer not being too bad, like mid 80's (atleast around til my teens).

For the last 5 or so years we've been lucky if we get 1 snow day before New Years. We might get a few days of snowing spread out throughout January. Our last 5 or so summers have been 90 to 100 everyday. Just from personal observation in my area, the heat seems to have risen 10 degrees on average just since I was a kid.

I'm not saying I think the next decade or two will follow the same pattern, but given that I love cooler weather, and hate the heat, I wish the weather could revert.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:33 AM   #753
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

Global warming is now "epic"

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/08/world/...html?hpt=hp_t3

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Old 03-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #754
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

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Originally Posted by Fading View Post
I live in Indiana, and am 29. I say my age to put this in a time reference. When I was a kid I remember a few entire weeks off of school in December for excessive snow, even one in high school. I also remember summer not being too bad, like mid 80's (atleast around til my teens).

For the last 5 or so years we've been lucky if we get 1 snow day before New Years. We might get a few days of snowing spread out throughout January. Our last 5 or so summers have been 90 to 100 everyday. Just from personal observation in my area, the heat seems to have risen 10 degrees on average just since I was a kid.

I'm not saying I think the next decade or two will follow the same pattern, but given that I love cooler weather, and hate the heat, I wish the weather could revert.
Say that to the people up in the panhandle of Texas that are now digging out of snow in March....lol

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Old 03-14-2013, 10:44 AM   #755
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

Global Warming Now Faster Than In Past One Hundred Centuries.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...een_in_11.html

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Old 03-24-2013, 01:30 PM   #756
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/world/...rticle_sidebar

I dont even know what to say about this. We are having such a profound impact on the deep ocean, yet no one ever travels there. The amount of pollutants and over fishing must be enormous.

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Old 03-24-2013, 06:25 PM   #757
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

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Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/world/...rticle_sidebar

I dont even know what to say about this. We are having such a profound impact on the deep ocean, yet no one ever travels there. The amount of pollutants and over fishing must be enormous.
I'm actually taking a class/seminar right now dealing with the ecological effects of fisheries. Just gave a presentation on fisheries-induced evolution, and a lot of the seminar so far has dealt with effects on benthic communities due to bottom-trawling. It's a pretty scary topic if you really take the time to learn about and understand it.

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Old 03-24-2013, 06:42 PM   #758
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It still doesn't change the fact that the logic behind that argument(it's the safer choice just incase) is what I would expect out of a religious person trying to sell me on their religion.

I should probably add to my list of points I have with the people who heavily promote Climate Change, their talking points many times to me come across like religious zealots. While that that doesn't change the science behind the theory it doesn't help with the presentation. To me science should be be open to opposition to the debate, but to often in the Climate Change movement opposing views are instantly shunned and ostracized. The close mindedness to people who do have the scientific qualifications who may have an opposing view is a huge turn off for me(when it comes to the idea that the theory is 100% based on scientific reasoning)
Is it really that important that people be polite when the issue at hand is a potential environmental crisis that could have disastrous consequences for generations to come? Rudeness doesn't seem like it should be a dealbreaker in this scenario.

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Old 04-17-2013, 11:18 AM   #759
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

REUTERS: Climate scientists struggle to explain warming slowdown
Article: April 16th, 2013

Quote:
(Reuters) - Scientists are struggling to explain a slowdown in climate change that has exposed gaps in their understanding and defies a rise in global greenhouse gas emissions.

...

"My own confidence in the data has gone down in the past five years," said Richard Tol, an expert in climate change and professor of economics at the University of Sussex in England.

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Old 04-17-2013, 12:16 PM   #760
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REUTERS: Climate scientists struggle to explain warming slowdown
Article: April 16th, 2013
I always said the main problem with Global Warming(which later got changed to Climate Change when the theory wasn't going exactly how they thought it would) is it's hard to predict how exactly it would effect ocean streams(which are a major factor in our weather patterns)

I think Al Gore's movie made the huge mistake of trying to fear people into thinking the world is going to become 1 huge dessert and the water levels will flood cities like NY within 10 years(instead of being honest about potential issues and pointing out while it will suck for the majority of the world, their will be land in Northern Canada and Russia that will become prime reality) because now when you see alot of stuff he predicted is false it doesn't give the theory any legs to stand on with alot of people

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Old 04-24-2013, 02:45 PM   #761
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

Global Warming = another excuse for us to pay taxes. Simple as that.

There's no denying that changes are happening, but they aren't as dramatic as they make it sound or as laughable movies such as The Day After Tomorrow are showing them.

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Old 04-24-2013, 02:48 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
Judging by this article it sounds like we were on the edge of a new Ice Age, but we did GREAT with the polution and all, contributing to Global Warming so now we won't freeze to death LOOOOL!!!

Imo Global Warming is simply a too complex phenomenon even for scientists to fully understand, they have all sorts of (plausible I admit) theories, but they change them every year! Whats gonna happen and how it will effect us in the future, they basically have no idea.

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Old 04-25-2013, 01:58 AM   #763
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

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I always said the main problem with Global Warming (which later got changed to Climate Change when the theory wasn't going exactly how they thought it would)
This is incorrect, but it's a common misconception.

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Old 04-25-2013, 02:11 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
REUTERS: Climate scientists struggle to explain warming slowdown
Article: April 16th, 2013
It should be noted that the referenced decline in confidence pertains to predictions over small time-scales, and not to the overall trends. It is an important distinction, one which is lost when people present quotes out of context.

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Old 04-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #765
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Global Warming = another excuse for us to pay taxes. Simple as that.

There's no denying that changes are happening, but they aren't as dramatic as they make it sound or as laughable movies such as The Day After Tomorrow are showing them.
In the late '60's they were telling us we were headed for another ice age, later they changed it to warming, then finally settled on the non-specific "change"...

When one scare tactic fails - try another.

Hasn't similar climate changes be recorded on Mars - suggesting its caused by the Sun - what a wacky concept!

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Old 05-01-2013, 01:11 AM   #766
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In the late '60's they were telling us we were headed for another ice age, later they changed it to warming, then finally settled on the non-specific "change"...

When one scare tactic fails - try another.
Actually, the worry about an ice age was driven primarily by long-term trends - over geologic time-scales - indicating that we were indeed due for another ice age. It had little to do with contemporary climate data (though we DID experience a small and temporary cooling event).

Furthermore, the transition from the term "global warming" to the term "climate change" was intended to avoid confusion over the fact that some regions may actually experience a cooling trend while average global temperatures would continue to increase. It's a matter of scale.

Of course, then they got people coming out of the woodwork proclaiming, "Hur hur, they can't make up their minds, stoopid scientists."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbadoom
Hasn't similar climate changes be recorded on Mars - suggesting its caused by the Sun - what a wacky concept!
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Clim...e-on-Mars.html

What you're doing there? It's called "oversimplification."

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Old 05-02-2013, 12:40 AM   #767
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

62 Years of Global Warming in 13 Seconds

http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/...-seconds-15469

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Old 05-02-2013, 12:57 AM   #768
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really very sad? I hope all use re energizable usable bulps to help at leasht with organ consumption. Save ozone, save environment. Put effort to try. I try hard but make work but still very hard. Needs collective effort.

Like Geoffrey John put in letters in Secret Origin of the Superman at end: all billion steps of mankind together much greater than one of Superman. Make happen

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Old 05-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #769
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Cool article on why you shouldn't buy a Hybrid: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr/

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Old 05-04-2013, 03:55 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by Ken-Kaniff View Post
Global Warming = another excuse for us to pay taxes. Simple as that.

There's no denying that changes are happening, but they aren't as dramatic as they make it sound or as laughable movies such as The Day After Tomorrow are showing them.
I can understand being skeptical, but think of it this way, what if you're wrong? What if it is man made? Just look at a few of the spots like I mentioned in Beijing earlier. Where places are becoming nigh unlivable. Or 90's reports of punctures in the ozone layer, and how it caused physical harm/blindness.


The way I look at it, it's better to have been wrong, while doing something that improves our way of life (i.e. living cleaner, reducing smog, producing more fuel efficient vehicles, ect.), than to get to a point in the future where we are past a point of no return. Kicking ourselves, because we did nothing in the past because we assumed it was just a political issue.




In the long run, cleaning up the environment makes for better living conditions, even if it costs more in the short run. Having cleaner air, less polluted water, more efficient vehicles, more efficient energy. It may take time, and cost money in the short run. However in the long run we'll end up with lower costing energy bills, and healthier bodies (we will be drinking cleaner water, breathing in less toxic fumes, ect.). We can make it into some liberal vs. conservative issue, or quit being babies, suck it up, and do something to avoid going down a path we know is going to hurt us regardless of whether it harms a warmer planet as a whole, or just makes small plots land more inhospitable.





It's like a married couple who are having trouble with bills. They're living unhealthy lifestyles, and miserable. Their health is failing, due to diet, and day to day living. They continue to convince themselves that it's ok to give up on bigger dreams that could lead to a better life, because they don't want to give up what little comforts they have in the now. They continue to eat at McDonalds 3 times a day, because it's cheaper, and faster than cooking a meal at home. They continue to be behind on bills because they don't want to go without the newest devices, and technological comforts. 5 years down the road, nothing's changed. They're in the same hole, and in worse shape. Where if they had just taken the short term risk to strive for a long term solution, they may have been in a better spot at that same point down the road.

At some point we have to stop thinking, "But, it's too much work! It costs too much! I don't want to put in the effort!", and start saying, "I don't want to be living in worse conditions than I currently am in today 10 years down the road. I don't want to be forever beholden to increasing gas prices. I don't want to be stuck in this rut forever, convincing myself there's nothing I can do." At some point you have to make some small sacrificies if you want to make it anywhere in life. I think the same can be said for the state of our environment. The way we use up natural resources, and pollute the environment, with the way our energy consumptions going to continue to rise as the environment worsens, it's not really sustainable.

Even if it were some political conspiracy to increase taxes...so what? What's the harm in improving things, regardless of the reason for starting that improvement? We let stupid politics shape the country for the worse all the time. Why lump a positive change in with the bad? Why let thinking it's stupid politicians pushing it be a motivation to not do something we know we should anyway?

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:22 AM   #771
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

The New York Times claims we have passed a feared milestone.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/sc...pagewanted=all

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:47 AM   #772
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God, that is so severely depressing.

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Old 05-30-2013, 01:56 AM   #773
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

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The way I look at it, it's better to have been wrong, while doing something that improves our way of life (i.e. living cleaner, reducing smog, producing more fuel efficient vehicles, ect.), than to get to a point in the future where we are past a point of no return. Kicking ourselves, because we did nothing in the past because we assumed it was just a political issue.
This is called "the precautionary principle". That's worth talking about both ways though.

What if the AGW theory is wrong and we wreck the world economy with attempts to force inefficient energy sources upon society? Less affluent societies suffer more from natural disasters, are less healthy, and have higher mortality rates from a variety of things. Energy is everything...higher prices negatively effect everything. There are people in the UK who can not afford to heat their homes because of carbon taxes being forced upon them.

Isn't is also worth saying, "What if you are wrong?" in that case as well?
Quote:
In the long run, cleaning up the environment makes for better living conditions, even if it costs more in the short run. Having cleaner air, less polluted water, more efficient vehicles, more efficient energy. It may take time, and cost money in the short run. However in the long run we'll end up with lower costing energy bills, and healthier bodies (we will be drinking cleaner water, breathing in less toxic fumes, ect.). We can make it into some liberal vs. conservative issue, or quit being babies, suck it up, and do something to avoid going down a path we know is going to hurt us regardless of whether it harms a warmer planet as a whole, or just makes small plots land more inhospitable.
The problem here is that we are already cleaning up the environment and have been for many decades. (I realize most people believe the opposite is happening) Our water and air has been getting progressively cleaner and we are able to feed ourselves better than at any point in the past. As a species, we are currently the most prosperous of any time in our existence (that is worldwide too). We've done this without needing to scare people into doing things. Affluent societies care about living in a cleaner place...that's a natural reaction to more wealth. If something happens and people become poorer...suddenly environmentalism falls off the map as a concern. That happened recently during the recession.

Ironically, the very thing which allows environmentalism to exist is the thing they usually express a distaste for.

To the poster who claimed "climate change" is a new term, that is not accurate. That term was used in the 70s to describe the global cooling scare.

The scare was so prevelant that the CIA issued a report on it in 1974. They call it "climate change" in the first sentence on the first page.
Quote:
The Western world's leading climatologists have confirmed recent reports of a detrimental global climate change.
http://www.climatemonitor.it/wp-cont...09/12/1974.pdf

The humorous part of all this was how the same predictions and fears were being used to describe how bad a cooling climate would be. Apparently if the climate cools or warms we are doomed. Since the climate is going to do something...I guess we are doomed!

Note how any natural disaster of the time was blamed on "global cooling". Droughts, floods, bad harvests...pretty much the same as what is going on now.

More: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...4365%2C2786655 ("New Ice Age Coming!")

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...tsec=frontpage (page 8 "Drought blamed on changing climate")

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ert-lamb&hl=en ("Little Ice Age Predicted for Britain")

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagot...F&pqatl=google ("New Ice Age on the Way soon")

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingt...Ice+Age+Coming ("US Scientist See New Ice Age Coming")

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/...r&pqatl=google ("New Ice Age Coming---It's Already Getting Colder")

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/csmonito...e&pqatl=google ("British climate expert predicts new Ice Age")

http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/ic...1975-01-19.pdf (I love this one....some scientists were preparing to blame us for the cooling. Naturally they are campaigning for government funding. Interesting how the article starts with "changes in climate are inevitable" before eventually falling into "blame humans". They even point out that warm climate is good...won't get that out of them now! )

That's just a few of them...this climate panic is nothing new. People love to listen to doomsday talk....we always have. Scary predictions titillate us. Doesn't matter that those predictions are almost always wrong....we just line up to listen to the next doomsayer.

I'm fascinated by this human trait myself. Religion depends upon this. Environmentalism has the same message "The world will end because of man's sins" so I assume environmentalism is just replacing conventional religion in our minds. We apparently need that message to feed our egos. That message is based on the idea that we are the most important and powerful species on the planet...none of the other species can effect the fate of planet except us. That makes our ego happy.

Having read a bit about climate history, warming is generally much better for humans than cooling. We are lucky to be living in a time when the climate was recovering from the Little Ice Age. That was a suck time to be alive. Thank god the climate started warming in the mid-1800s...long before our CO2 emissions could have been the cause of course.

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Old 05-30-2013, 02:08 AM   #774
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Actually, it's well established that anthropogenic carbon dioxide is having enormously harmful effects on the environment. This would be true even if it weren't responsible for an increase in average global temperature, as I mentioned earlier. Carbon dioxide is currently an enormous problem.
Is it? What is the problem? We are talking about a trace gas in the atmosphere (0.04%) that is essential for life on this planet. We are also currently at one of the lowest levels of CO2 in the history of the planet.
http://www.americanthinker.com/%231%...rthHistory.gif

If anything we are currently experiencing CO2 starvation since most of the lifeforms on the planet evolved during periods of much higher CO2 concentrations. Note that during one ice age, CO2 levels were above 4000ppm. That's a pretty big blow to the theory that CO2 drives temperature. (We are now at about 400ppm)

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Old 06-06-2013, 11:37 AM   #775
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Default Re: Discussion: Global Warming, Emission Standards, and Other Environmental Issues II

http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-...ign=socialflow

"Social Cost" of Climate Change Bumped Up By 60%

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