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Old 02-11-2011, 10:45 AM   #26
GREEN =w= DAY
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

i like to pretend that X3 and the first Wolverine movie doesn't exist. First Class seems like it will connect perfectly with X1 and X2 thanks in large part to Singer's involvment. only excpetion is how in X2 there's a small little cameo by Hank McCoy on the tv and he will appear in First Class.

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Old 02-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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Now it makes more sense. They only way it will really affect continuity is based on the ending. Also most people can ignore that after credits scene. It would take a miracle for that to go anywhere.
True, also, remember that Moira wasn't detailed in X3, it could still be the same character. The only inconsistency seems to be with Emma Frost, the point of Charles becoming bald (which remains to be seen), and 'Jason'.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

I think theyll use whats established as a general blueprint, but other than that, just do what they want.

Sequel: We should see Scott, Jean, Ororo join the group.

I like Xmen2, I really do, but have always found the Xmen films to be disappointing. The previous films focused so much on Wolverine, and IMHO, the movie version of the character doesnt capture what was so great about the comic book version of the character (at least the character as I remember him).

I also think they made some bad decisions with casting, and choosing which point in the Xmens lives that we meet up with them.

Its pretty amazing how much further we've come in 12 years as far as moviemaking goes. I'd love to see them film a continuing storyline over multiple films - using what LOTR as a example. Im hoping this new franchise will FINALLY give me the Xmen films Ive been waiting for. I want 6 First Class movies!

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:06 AM   #29
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Nave,

The most inconsistent is the opening of X3. I've stated it before but the timeline is all off with that opening scene between Charles and Erik.

And that's more apparent with the release of the trailer and showing Erik in full Magneto gear at the end of the trailer.

Unless the film jumps forward 20 years, the opening scene to X3 doesn't work with this film at all.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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Nave,

The most inconsistent is the opening of X3. I've stated it before but the timeline is all off with that opening scene between Charles and Erik.

And that's more apparent with the release of the trailer and showing Erik in full Magneto gear at the end of the trailer.

Unless the film jumps forward 20 years, the opening scene to X3 doesn't work with this film at all.
Not necessarily. They might reconcile 20 years after First Class. They clearly weren't friends nor enemies in the beginning of X1, just two men with a very long history together. This seems to be the same relationship here in this film and the scene in The Last Stand doesn't contradict that.

Charles and Erik may have found common ground again in the 80s and went out to find new recruits together. Then the proposal of The Mutant Registration Act broke them up again.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:12 AM   #31
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Yea. I mentioned that way back when we heard the end of this film will feature Prof X being crippled and his fallout with Magneto.

The beginning of X3 clearly establishes they were friends when they met Jean Grey, and that Xavier still had use of his legs.


I think the only thing theyre really going to stick to, considering the mutants they decided to use, is the timeline where they meet Scott, Jean and Storm. Other than that, everything is open to a new interpretation.

I wouldnt even be suprised if they hold off on Storm, introduced Scott and Jean in the sequel and brought Storm in for film3.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:20 AM   #32
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Alexei,

Clearly, Charles and Erik were respectful of one another in the first film. But, make no mistake, it's also pretty clear that they are on opposite sides.

I don't see them splitting in the 60's, reconciling in the 80's, the splitting again right before we get to the first X-Men film.

That makes this film completely irrelevant if they do that. That's the whole point of making this film; seeing how the relationship began and see how it ultimately failed...how two factions in the mutant community began.

This is why the opening of X3 makes no sense now that we're going to see how they split.

If there is a sequel, it's almost got to be a given that we'll see Charles trying to get his school up and running and the challenges in doing that. It is there where we'll probably meet Jean, Storm, and Scott.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:21 AM   #33
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conan,

Has it been completely confirmed that the ending is as you described? Because I haven't been following the production one bit.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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i like to pretend that X3 and the first Wolverine movie doesn't exist. First Class seems like it will connect perfectly with X1 and X2 thanks in large part to Singer's involvment. only excpetion is how in X2 there's a small little cameo by Hank McCoy on the tv and he will appear in First Class.
There's a shot here that shows Hank with a syringe of some sort before his feet begins to mutate. Maybe he can concoct a variation of that formula to repress his mutation? A very crude form of the 'cure' or something? By the time X3 began, hatred against mutants did ameliorate from what was implied by X2, maybe he stopped using the drugs then? It would add a layer of depth as to why the first X-Man to visit that kid in X3 was Hank (something I thought was a conscious decision on part of the writers when I was watching the film for the first time. Oh well).

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-11-2011, 11:28 AM   #35
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Nave,

Or, we can ignore a 6 second shot of a TV screen all together because most people, beyond the hardcore audience, didn't even catch it.

That's a movie nugget...not a serious plot or timeline point. It's a small, look at me moment.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:28 AM   #36
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Nave,

Or, we can ignore a 6 second shot of a TV screen all together because most people, beyond the hardcore audience, didn't even catch it.

That's a movie nugget...not a serious plot or timeline point. It's a small, look at me moment.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:32 AM   #37
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Nave,

I honestly wouldn't worry about a split second shot in X2 of Hank.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:33 AM   #38
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Nave,

I honestly wouldn't worry about a split second shot in X2 of Hank.

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Old 02-11-2011, 11:52 AM   #39
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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Nave,

The most inconsistent is the opening of X3. I've stated it before but the timeline is all off with that opening scene between Charles and Erik.

And that's more apparent with the release of the trailer and showing Erik in full Magneto gear at the end of the trailer.

Unless the film jumps forward 20 years, the opening scene to X3 doesn't work with this film at all.
I remember that, but I can't recall if they captioned that scene (with something like '15 years ago' or such). Even if they did, it's still murky because a) the events in the first X-Men film are said to be 'in the not too distant future'. X3 also had that weird error in grammar (in X3, they wrote 'in the not to distant future), so I'm not going to rely on captions for continuity.

I think that the scene at the Grey house can be reconciled rather easily. Charles and Erik are simply shown to be 'younger', age isn't specified. All we need to do is show that Charles became bald sometime prior to his fallout with Magneto. The Grey recruitment could occur at any, unseen, point during the span of the new movie. Just my thought. Am I missing anything?

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I don't see them splitting in the 60's, reconciling in the 80's, the splitting again right before we get to the first X-Men film.

That makes this film completely irrelevant if they do that. That's the whole point of making this film; seeing how the relationship began and see how it ultimately failed...how two factions in the mutant community began.
Yes, definitely, a reconciliation in the 80s would be irksome to the entire narrative. Lets keep things simple!

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
If there is a sequel, it's almost got to be a given that we'll see Charles trying to get his school up and running and the challenges in doing that. It is there where we'll probably meet Jean, Storm, and Scott.
I could see that. Though this is out of context, but I really hope that a story surrounding the 'The Original X-Men', whenever it is made, gets a different director and cast of actors. It would make it a whole lot more interesting if it's that, instead of being simply a sequel to the prequel. I suppose hype surrounding The Wolverine led me to think this way.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-11-2011, 11:53 AM   #40
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
Nave,

Or, we can ignore a 6 second shot of a TV screen all together because most people, beyond the hardcore audience, didn't even catch it.

That's a movie nugget...not a serious plot or timeline point. It's a small, look at me moment.
True.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-11-2011, 12:07 PM   #41
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

I think after seeing the trailer we safely assume we should Ignore The last Stand and Wolverine.Jennifer Lawrence In Mystique's true form resembles Rebecca Romijn as Mystique but Nicholas Hoult as Blue and furry Beast IS clearly different than Kelsey Grammer's beast.These facts considering what we have heard about Xavier and Magneto
firmly goes Into they are only keeping X-Men and X2 In contunity with First Class and any sequels.Plus Angel could show up In sequel with Cyclops and jean.While they might hold Storm for a possible third First Class film.And If they want to do a earlier version of X-Men vs Brotehrhood they could use Blob and Juggernaut.They are advantages of Ignoring The Last Stand and Wolverine but keeping contunity with X-Men and X2.You ignore the mixed and poorly received films.You keep the well received films In Canon.You can do better versions of characters in Last Stand and Wolverine.And the producers and Fox can say they unlike other comic book franchsies are still doing one series while others are throwing out contunitys left and right

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Old 02-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #42
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^ it's something Bryan Singer would do, really, just look at what he did with the Superman franchise, and the X-Universe is his own child.

However, I still think the universe is reconcilable. It's what I've been arguing here

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-11-2011, 12:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

^ it's something Bryan Singer would do, really, just look at what he did with the Superman franchise, and the X-Universe is his own child.

However, I still think the universe is reconcilable. It's what I've been arguing here

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 02-11-2011, 01:12 PM   #44
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I think after seeing the trailer we safely assume we should Ignore The last Stand and Wolverine.Jennifer Lawrence In Mystique's true form resembles Rebecca Romijn as Mystique but Nicholas Hoult as Blue and furry Beast IS clearly different than Kelsey Grammer's beast.These facts considering what we have heard about Xavier and Magneto
firmly goes Into they are only keeping X-Men and X2 In contunity with First Class and any sequels.Plus Angel could show up In sequel with Cyclops and jean.While they might hold Storm for a possible third First Class film.And If they want to do a earlier version of X-Men vs Brotehrhood they could use Blob and Juggernaut.They are advantages of Ignoring The Last Stand and Wolverine but keeping contunity with X-Men and X2.You ignore the mixed and poorly received films.You keep the well received films In Canon.You can do better versions of characters in Last Stand and Wolverine.And the producers and Fox can say they unlike other comic book franchsies are still doing one series while others are throwing out contunitys left and right
You seem to be on the same boat J. Howlett is on where you desperately want the studio to deem The Last Stand and Origins as "mixed and poorly received" [when they weren't] and completely ignore them as if they never happened.

While you'll be getting that with Aronofsky's The Wolverine, you won't be getting it, at least not entirely with First Class. Yes, they've retconned Emma and Moira, yes they've redesigned Beast - not retconned him, but that's all. Vaughn isn't rebooting the franchise or prequeling ONLY Singer's films. If he was, Angel would be part of the cast.

Oh and don't forget the shot from The Last Stand in the First Class trailer.

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Old 02-11-2011, 01:19 PM   #45
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They were poorly received.

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Old 02-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #46
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they were poorly received.
These are worldwide earnings for all the movies:

X-Men (2000) $296,339,527

X2 (2003)$407,711,549

The Last Stand (2006) $459,359,555

Origins (2009) $373,062,864

if you notice, the last two "poorly received" films made more money than the first two movies. From a business standpoint, they were anything but failed products. Even though they didn't perform as well as the other two critically, the studio still sees them as successes, the same way Marvel sees Iron Man 2 as a success even though it was a huge step down from the first film.

I was crushed by how bad Origins was, but that doesn't mean I wasn't surprised when Aronofsky was given a chance to reinvent the character. Its Aronofsky after all. Matthew Vaughn had to work with the existing continuity because that continuity in its entirety was a successful property for the studio.

Darren gets a one shot, Vaughn gets a prequel to the WHOLE trilogy.

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Old 02-11-2011, 02:16 PM   #47
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They made more money because they rode the coattails of X-Men and X2.

Here's the real deal. While yes, the Last Stand came out of the box hot it's opening weekend, the opening weekend doesn't tell you about a film's reception. Opening weekend is about marketing. And if it's a sequel to a wildly popular film, opening weekend is all about how people responded to the previous film.

In the case of the Last Stand, it started strong then word of mouth got hold of it and it feel hard in its second weekend. Second weekend is the weekend where we find out what people thought of said film and how much they've told other people. Word of mouth on the Last Stand was not good.

Yes, it made more money but that's only because it made more money in that opening weekend. It only made 52 million more than X2 worldwide but it's budget was significantly higher than X2 so, it technically didn't make as much of a profit than X2.

If I'm correct X2's DVD sales were better than the Last Stand.

And as you can see with Origins, it made less than X2 and the Last Stand.

Adjust to inflation and both X-Men and X2 made more many than the last two, if I'm correct.

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Old 02-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #48
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This is the problem when Marvel doesn't have enough control over these other properties. Writers can go all over the place and screw up continuity REALLY bad.

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Old 02-11-2011, 02:51 PM   #49
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Marvel Isn't gold.Remember The Bruce Banner casting fiasco.

Yes X-Men the Last Stand Is the most successful film In series.But virtually everyone has mixed feelings on it.Wolverine made more money than the first X-Men yet Is viewed negativly by all.

Superman Returns made 200 Million Domesticly only 5 million less than Batman Begins and overseas beat batman Begins.Yet many act like It was a batman and Robin bomb.
Superman Returns actully beat the grosses of first X-men and Wolverine.

There are differences how films make money and how people react to them.

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: Reconciling the films contunity

Yes, very poorly (received, in terms of fans and critical acclaim. All the films made money, otherwise this new movie wouldn't be happening). But I think we're missing a very important point here ladies and gentlemen; that a simple shot of Xavier's wheel chair does not confirm that X3 will be a part of this continuity. It was just a shot, that's all. I'm not that saying X3 will NOT be considered canon, but that this particular shot doesn't CONFIRM that it WILL.

(I promise to not capitalise my words anymore... unless I'm writing a comic book).

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)



Last edited by Nave 'Torment'; 02-11-2011 at 03:03 PM. Reason: clarification
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